🥝 Community Kiwi Fortress - An unofficial Kiwi Farms Team Fortress 2 server.

[piombo]

The commentary specifies the mechanic of how crits are handled, where doing more damage gives you a higher chance of doing crits to attempt to give more crits to people who are doing better. (Which is also how the infamous engineer crit banking exploit came to be since sentry repairs counted as player damage)

this makes my argument if you haven't figured it out, i'm not debating if they're a good mechanic or not.

Ubercharge was specifically added to break stalemates and weapons that have no random crits as a downside are basically weapons with no downsite, I don't think its a good drawback for any weapon.

this is now opinion territory, but also shockingly in servers without random crits the downside doesn't exist, now account servers with them.

 

[Sarn’t]

I don’t understand how people could be against random crits when they’re basically in the tagline of the game itself.
TF2: BIG MONEY, BIG DAMAGE, BIG FUN

 

[Oilspill Battery]

this is now opinion territory, but also shockingly in servers without random crits the downside doesn't exist, now account servers with them.

I was talking about servers with random crits lol. "No random crits" basically isnt' a real downside regardless of whether or not the server has them enabled.

"You will not randomly oneshot someone 1 out of 30-40 times" is a pretty cheap downside for whatever other upside they bring, since that upside can usually be accessed 100% of the time as opposed to 2-5% of the time, which is why they also tend to have additional downsides ontop of it.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

I'm gonna enjoy tearing you a few new assholes.

You keep insisting that the game was "designed" with crits in mind, and no, it wasn't.

Yes, it was. One of the fucking Soldier achievements literally requires you to shoot two random critical rockets in a row.
That alone won't convince you, I'm sure, so let me break down the numbers for you:
A full critical shotgun blast (180) does JUST enough damage to kill a Pyro/Demoman (175) and just barely misses a full HP Soldier (200).
A critical swing from any stock melee (195) (except for Scout's, which does almost 50% less damage, and Spy's, which cannot randomly) comes just 5 damage shy of killing a full HP Soldier.
A critical rocket (270) can only be tanked by a full HP heavy, or an overhealed soldier (300).
A spy's random revolver crit is 5 damage shy (120) of instantly killing the classes he's designed to counter (Sniper and Engineer, both 125).
Sniper's quickest headshot (150) will instantly kill everything up to a Medic. A fully charged headshot shot (450) is the exact amount of health an overhealed Heavy has. Both just so happen to be his most common targets.*
A critical pipe (300) is lethal to everything except an overhealed Heavy.
*Yeah I know, random. Sniper can't crit outside of headshots on his primary. It still counts. The numbers are the way they are for a reason.

The game isn't balanced nor designed around random crits, no part of the game stops working without random crits, no class balance changes without random crits, its a dogshit design descision that benefits literally no one and there's nothing healthy about it.

Mad cuz bad.

Critical hits are one of the features that resulted from our focus on pacing. The critical hit system attempts to slightly influence the highs and lows of the game, by increasing the chance of a critical hit based upon the player's recent performance. In summary, the better you're doing, the more likely you'll continue to do well. This helps create those rare high moments, where a single player goes on a rampage and gets 3 or 4 kills in rapid succession.

Across all my playtime only wannabe tryhards kept complaining about random crits, most often when a regular attack would have splattered them anyway. "Wah i totes would have won that exchange if not for those pesky random crits". No, bitch. You had less than 30 HP.

Valve fanboys are the biggest retards on the planet I swear. Gaben could literally show up in your home, drug you and fuck your ass and the next day you'd be on the forums like "Ok but here's why that was a good thing."

Ending with a strawman. Nice. Out of curiosity, when did you start playing? 2015? 2020? This year? I'm not very familiar with the timeline of Cuckle Dane's spread of "random crits le bad i main engineer" faggotry.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Yes, it was. One of the fucking Soldier achievements literally requires you to shoot two random critical rockets in a row.

Ok. So? Nothing stops you from just tacking the crits on afterward and adding the achivement lol. Just because I scribbled with magic marker on starry night doesn't mean its part of the intent of the painting.

That alone won't convince you, I'm sure, so let me break down the numbers for you:

What are you under the impression these numbers actually prove? Yes, big damage will kill. If you have more health you will survive more damage. And?

The only one of these that's valid is sniper, which explicitly doesn't do random crits because he specifically is the one class actually designed around them, except we're not arguing about the existence of crits, we're arguing about their randomness. No, bro, I don't mind the Kritzkrieg existing either.

*Yeah I know, random. Sniper can't crit outside of headshots on his primary. It still counts. The numbers are the way they are for a reason.

"In this argument about random critical hits, the one class that has no random critical hits and specifically can cause critical hits on demand, proves the game is designed around random critical hits."

???

Nice. Out of curiosity, when did you start playing? 2015? 2020? This year?

Ending with a strawman. Nice.

As opposed to you opening AND closing with one?

Sounds like a butthurt 125 HP class to me, most likely a Scout. Protip: compniggedry of ETF2L or UGC are right there for you if you want to play without random spread or crits. Oh, but you're not actually committed or skilled enough to put up with the sterile environment of 6v6 or even Highlander, are you now?

Across all my playtime only wannabe tryhards kept complaining about random crits, most often when a regular attack would have splattered them anyway. "Wah i totes would have won that exchange if not for those pesky random crits". No, bitch. You had less than 30 HP.

I'm not very familiar with the timeline of Cuckle Dane's spread of "random crits le bad i main engineer" faggotry.

Less self awareness than the average troon.

 

[Leaded Gasoline]

I'm not very familiar with the timeline of Cuckle Dane's spread of "random crits le bad i main engineer" faggotry.

The only part you should know about is when he made a poll to own the casuals and it backfired

turns out most people do enjoy random crits and wordy arguments can't change that

 

[piombo]

I was talking about servers with random crits lol. "No random crits" basically isnt' a real downside regardless of whether or not the server has them enabled.

"You will not randomly oneshot someone 1 out of 30-40 times" is a pretty cheap downside for whatever other upside they bring, since that upside can usually be accessed 100% of the time as opposed to 2-5% of the time, which is why they also tend to have additional downsides ontop of it.

this singular statement makes you an absolute mongoloid, and i give you three reasons for it:

1. you complain about random crits fucking you up, but having them removed is not a real downside? stick to one story.
2. that's a pretty important stat for balancing multiple weapons (especially melee weapons), weapons that can crit on demand need it for obvious reasons (ex. all sniper rifles, frontier justice, market gardener, bushwacka, phlog and manmelter), if you need an argument about swords, look at the skullcrusher on demo.
3. learn to read what that motherfucking plugin does because it also balances out random critting, to bring three simple examples i can tell you that scouts have a one-shot from all ranges (sandman + guillio), pyroes have the release day axtinguisher with the old switch bonuses and demos have the old loch, you remove random crits you give a gigantic buff to these weapons/loadouts.

and this excludes the fact that this pissing and moaning about random crits is worthless, they're intended by the developers, kiwis want it, and there's no incentive to seriously play the game in there, so either join in the server and enjoy the game it offers, or pretty please piss off proper and stop shitting the thread.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

you complain about random crits fucking you up, but having them removed is not a real downside? stick to one story.

No, both are perfectly valid. I don't like the fact that you can randomly die out of nowhere and at the same time seeing as you can't rely on it or play around it, having it taken away for another real advantage has a tangible effect on your gameplay is way more significant power wise.

Its not a hard concept to grasp if you have room temperature IQ.

that's a pretty important stat for balancing multiple weapons (especially melee weapons), weapons that can crit on demand need it for obvious reasons (ex. all sniper rifles, frontier justice, market gardener, bushwacka, phlog and manmelter), if you need an argument about swords, look at the skullcrusher on demo.

Yeah, because a random crit would be disproportionately strong on a lot of them. Soldier or demo pulling out a zatoichi instantly healing to full while oneshoting half the classes in the game would be too bullshit to be on the receiving end of even by random crit standard.

learn to read what that motherfucking plugin does because it also balances out random critting, to bring three simple examples i can tell you that scouts have a one-shot from all ranges (sandman + guillio), pyroes have the release day axtinguisher with the old switch bonuses and demos have the old loch, you remove random crits you give a gigantic buff to these weapons/loadouts.

"Gigantic buff" because other weapons can't randomly oneshot people 2% of the time? Bruh, are you really gonna pretend that this is about balance? If a weapon is overpowered without random crits, random crits aren't gonna balance it.

and this excludes the fact that this pissing and moaning about random crits is worthless, they're intended by the developers, kiwis want it, and there's no incentive to seriously play the game in there, so either join in the server and enjoy the game it offers, or pretty please piss off proper and stop shitting the thread.

Maybe you should tell that to the guy who originally started shitting up the thread to begin with by responding to an off handed comment with an enraged paragraph long spergout.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

>2013
Yeah, no point in arguing even. Lmao. You don't know shit about the game.

 

[Leaded Gasoline]

I don't like the fact that you can randomly die out of nowhere

Yeah I agree that Sniper should be removed

Have you considered taking the game less seriously? Random crits go both ways and skilled players will always end up benefiting from them more

 

[babaisyou]

Sorry for squeezing in between the argument about random crits.

I have some minor updates to the server:

• The US server seems stable enough aside from one hitch, you can shill it.
• I've added some more community maps from my own picks and some user suggestions.
• Both greentext plugins are fucked, I'll try and patch one of them when I have the time.

@babaisyou Start hosting events for the server and make a steam group or it will suffer the same fate as konata. it started strong but because the admin didnt do much it died

I'm sort of against this idea, to be fair I do have some ideas for events and the frequency of them, (once a month at most) if this creates some further discussion I'd be willing to put it up to vote.

I know a few guys wanted cp_niggers_1488, I'd be willing to upload it to soyjak.download

I don't think the workshop jannies would let me publish the map...

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Yeah I agree that Sniper should be removed

Have you considered taking the game less seriously? Random crits go both ways and skilled players will always end up benefiting from them more

I mean, sniper is generally considered the biggest failure for exactly this reason lol. I don't remember where but I vaguely recall the devs mentioning that its their one regret or something along those lines.

Anyway, like I said earlier, crits for me aren't an issue of "the best player wins" or "competitive integrity" or whatever. I dislike them for the same reason I would dislike if in football you had to roll a dice after every goal and being forced into a timeout if it rolls a 6.

 

[miyuki]

Sorry for squeezing in this argument about random crits.

I have some minor updates to the server:

• The US server seems stable enough aside from one hitch, you can shill it.
• I've added some more community maps from my own picks and some user suggestions.
• Both greentext plugins are fucked, I'll try and patch one of them when I have the time.

I'm sort of against this idea, to be fair I do have some ideas for events and the frequency of them, (once a month at most) if this creates some further discussion I'd be willing to put it up to vote.


I don't think the workshop jannies would let me publish the map...

Make it so that we play 6pm CEST on the european server on fridays and the weekends. the server has at most 5 players. If you keep it this way people will lose interest and the server will die

 

[Flaming Dumpster]

turns out most people do enjoy random crits and wordy arguments can't change that

I prefer random crits and here are my credentials

I don't think the workshop jannies would let me publish the map...

Can you serve it via FastDL?

 

[soy woah jaque]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I personally prefer disabling random crits on everything except melee, that's what tf2 classic does and it works fine, shame that mod is run by troons and you get banned for saying faggot

Getting one tapped by a crocket feels a bit helpless, but getting close enough to a demoman for him to break your skull with a frying pan feels like it's your fault for not keeping your distance. I think random crits are the main strength and appeal of melee weapons, people probably wouldn't even bother using them that much if they didn't have the chance to crit

 

[unhealing wound]

Can you serve it via FastDL?

It's an HTTP server that can be DDOSed and it generally sucks to set up.

I don't think the workshop jannies would let me publish the map...

Can't you just rename it to cp_neighbors_1589? It's not like they can see the actual content of the map unless you set it as the thumbnail right?

PS if you aren't playing at MATI time today you are an Uncletopia player

 

[Hiphopopotamus]

GFW: Did you design critical hits to provide a degree of access to people who don't traditionally play shooters?
Robin Walker: A lot of people assume that they're there to help new players. Some of it's pacing. We looked at Counter-Strike, where you happen to get lucky at times and get five consecutive headshots. And then you talk about it for another three weeks.
GFW: Is that luck or skill?
Robin Walker: It's skill affecting luck. You can't control the Gaussian distribution of fire when you pull the trigger, but skill is involved in centering that Gaussian distribution on an opponent's head. The idea that there shouldn't be any luck in an FPS is silly. We created Team Fortress 2's critical-hit system so that critical-hit chances increase over time based on performance. There's the skill. If you're a good player, you'll always have a higher chance of hitting criticals than novices. On top of that, there's the flat-out fact that crit chance is determined when you fire, right? You can miss crits. Adding randomness increases the range of possible tactical skill options. Sometimes, the crazy thing works. If a game is 100 percent deterministic, then only one tactic works. The more randomness you add, the wider the range of options becomes. When your game is 100 percent random, every option is equally viable, right, which we don't want either. So the critical-hit system was us saying we want to specifically tune this stuff, whereas it's just fallen into place in the past.

Despite what any zoomer or uncle Dane the molester main fan will tell you, the game was designed around random crits and around random bullet spread.

 

[Polyboros2]

Oh man, I'm feeling the urge to rant about how soldier mains ruined the game. It's really bringing me back.

I remember pretty early on, I think around the time the Pyro got the ability to reflect rockets, Valve tried to balance Soldier for the one and only time. IIRC they made it so they didn't get as much resistance to their own splash damage.

It was glorious. As a Pyro you could typically trade with a soldier if you got good positioning, as you'd deal enough damage that the soldier would kill themselves trying to face rocket you. It made the Soldier have to use it's shotgun or melee, not just steamroll though the game being able to kill most classes in one shots, two if they didn't aim. Getting up close was the counter to soldier. More often than not you'd just trade, but Soldier were so OP that was usually worth it.

Then the Soldier mains through a fucking fit and after what felt like one weekend, they rolled it back, and Soldier Fortress 2 was full established. Soldier would only get buffs, get more utility, being able to cap like Scouts, while being almost as mobile, way more tanky, and better DPS at any range. Soldier would never have a counter that made playing them frustrating like every other class.

I don't know if it even exists, I'm fine with Crits, I'm fine with random spready, hell I'm Fine with Soldier Fortress 2, its the game I played hundreds of hours of, but if there is something that makes Soldier take full splash damage when hitting enemies up close(meaning not hitting the map to Rocket Jump), that was always my dream balance.

 

[NSJAP]

Name anonymization is useless because you can see user profiles of current game in the Game Overview in Stem Overlay

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

Even got to 6v6 at some point. Was fun. Would be even more fun with double the players. GGs to everyone except the niggers picking sniper on race maps.