Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[The tired cat]

He was involved with organized crime, was a drug addict, and from how good he is with guns, probably killed some people too.

And there was also the discarded stuff how he served in WW2 and became drug addict cause of hid experience.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Though of course, they had her more or less ignoring that one character in the room who was very obviously and desperately in need of some spiritual consolation and guidance.

Yeah like even within the show of how much Lute hates sinners and how she's a bad guy, she's not the one who arranged the exterminations unlike the actual idiot being comforted who probably caused the most problems in the show.

 

[The tired cat]

So, heres one weird question that further dynamites the shoddy world building. Why dont the Exterminator weapons have protection spells or engravings? Youd think they would have those, so Hell creatures cant use 'em, but this also raises question why Exterminators would even leave these weapons in the first place.

 

[Kid Named Rocket]

a few memes or something idk

Spoiler

Spoiler: Addy/Lutey art tax

 

[Wulfering]

So, heres one weird question that further dynamites the shoddy world building. Why dont the Exterminator weapons have protection spells or engravings? Youd think they would have those, so Hell creatures cant use 'em, but this also raises question why Exterminators would even leave these weapons in the first place.

The only explanation for leaving that weapons are that the angels hope that sinners will perma kill each other with then.

And yes this is dumb.

 

[The Nothingness]

My additional two cents, pun intended, for the shoddy worldbuilding is Hell's economic system.

Moxxie was trying to balance the company books in the latest HB episode thanks to Blitzo's buying spree and Millie brings up how she and Moxxie haven't been paid by their boss in months. Yet the episode ends on a joke of Moxxie just burning everything because of an error in his calculation. We've seen Sinners placing hits not long after they've arrived, so do they already have Hell currency on them like you have a default amount of money when starting some video games? Does Mammon run this universe's equivalent of the Treasury Department or would that run counterintuitive to the capitalism = greed narrative?

 

[LucasSomething]

Also, looking at the leaks and this really is now fucking with me, why does Lute have a Full Metal Alchemist arm now? She didnt lose it from a holy weapon as I recall, she just tore it off. Sooo...what Angels/Exterminatord cannot regen lost limbs? That seems like a big flaw.

Not really? I mean, given how she's not being played off for comedy, moreover from the court scene with Serpentious and her duet with Sera, she comes across as someone who's very warm and motherly, and who's there to provide spiritual consolation and guidance to those who need it.

Though of course, they had her more or less ignoring that one character in the room who was very obviously and desperately in need of some spiritual consolation and guidance.
View attachment 6647549

Probably a case of Vivzie ignoring whatever rules and lore she may or may not have written in favor of whatever looks cool.

I swear, InJailOutSoon questioned this before and i typed here "because Vivzie is going to ignore her own world logic and give her a robo arm out of rule of cool" but i deleted before sending cause i thought "surely it would be too dumb even for vivzie".

It's actually sad how much of a predictable hack Vivzie is.

 

[The tired cat]

My additional two cents, pun intended, for the shoddy worldbuilding is Hell's economic system.

Moxie was trying to balance the books in the latest HB episode thanks to Blitzo's buying spree yet it ends on a joke of him just burning everything because of an error in his calculation. We've seen Sinners placing hits not long after they've arrived, so do they already have Hell currency on them like you have a default amount of money when starting some video games? Does Mammon run this universe's equivalent of the Treasury Department or would that counterintuitive to the capitalism = greed narrative?

Funnt thing, I asked the same question as well. Like, do these guys have money, does IMP give 'em credit or IOU cards? Hell, why did they suddenly take forms to show how they died (drowned kid, old lady with floating head, the cannibal bitch missing her eye), when in both Pilot and Ep1 we saw sinners resembling nothing as what they were when alive.

It's actually sad how much of a predictable hack Vivzie is.

You also wanna ask, why does Heaven need exterminators now anyway? So, Charlie proved sinners can be redeemed. Hell clearly isnt itching to start another war or Apocalypse even, Lucifer doesnt give a flying shit and Lilith is busy sipping dry martinis...soo...what we gonna have Eve aka Roo suddenly pimp out and wreck everyones shit?

 

[make_it_so]

You also wanna ask, why does Heaven need exterminators now anyway? So, Charlie proved sinners can be redeemed. Hell clearly isnt itching to start another war or Apocalypse even, Lucifer doesnt give a flying shit and Lilith is busy sipping dry martinis...soo...what we gonna have Eve aka Roo suddenly pimp out and wreck everyones shit?

Well, I think it actually is a plot thread that we need to keep going. Obviously Lute and no doubt a number of her sisters in arms will want to take a hardline stance, even while Emily and Sera to a degree might want to push for a more diplomatic route. And it works because, given how the people in Heaven don't have the whole picture, either side could be argued to be in the right. Plus we know from Season 1 that the Vee's had a "plan of attack" against Heaven already drawn up, and from the leaks Vox indicates he still wants to go through with it - and more importantly, that the initial inspiration for rising against Heaven came from Lilith. Which brings about its own interesting story thread as it means Charlie might have to confront the fact that her mom might not be quite the noble figure that she believes her to be.

 

[Stumbling7]

Spoiler: Meme dump 24

 

[Kid Named Rocket]

You also wanna ask, why does Heaven need exterminators now anyway? So, Charlie proved sinners can be redeemed. Hell clearly isnt itching to start another war or Apocalypse even, Lucifer doesnt give a flying shit and Lilith is busy sipping dry martinis...soo...what we gonna have Eve aka Roo suddenly pimp out and wreck everyones shit?

While Charlie did manage to get Pentious into Heaven, she did also led what amounts to an insurrection against Heaven, which resulted in the death of Adam – a very important figure all things considered.
The leaks show that Lady Dumb Bitch (aka Sera) encases Heaven in a magic barrier (and causes Emily to get stranded in Hell lol), presumably to give her and the other Archangels time to decide the proper course of action. Abel is probably appointed as temporary Head Exorcist just so Schizo!Lute is kept out of a position of power (a petty asshole move on Lady Dumb Bitch's part, I call her that for a reason).
When Season 2 releases proper, we'll either see:
1. The Exterminations continue on the usual schedule, with the inexperienced nepo-baby in charge instead of the motivated woman who actually knows how to get shit done
OR, the more likely option:
2. the Exorcists get officially disbanded (just in time for the Vees to make their power play against Heaven and pretty much prove that the Exterminations were absolutely fucking necessary, lol)

 

[FK009]

While Charlie did manage to get Pentious into Heaven, she did also led what amounts to an insurrection against Heaven, which resulted in the death of Adam – a very important figure all things considered.
The leaks show that Lady Dumb Bitch (aka Sera) encases Heaven in a magic barrier (and causes Emily to get stranded in Hell lol), presumably to give her and the other Archangels time to decide the proper course of action. Abel is probably appointed as temporary Head Exorcist just so Schizo!Lute is kept out of a position of power (a petty asshole move on Lady Dumb Bitch's part, I call her that for a reason).
When Season 2 releases proper, we'll either see:
1. The Exterminations continue on the usual schedule, with the inexperienced nepo-baby in charge instead of the motivated woman who actually knows how to get shit done
OR, the more likely option:
2. the Exorcists get officially disbanded (just in time for the Vees to make their power play against Heaven and pretty much prove that the Exterminations were absolutely fucking necessary, lol)

Not only that, everyone glosses over one major thing that stemmed from the insurrection: Charlie just proved angels can die. Imagine your enemy is this large, impossible to fight against army, not even an army, a small group, and suddenly their leader, and several other soldiers are killed. Yeah Adam’s death is big, the exterminators invulnerability being shattered? That’s earth shattering. The Vees are going to move to attack, because they can be conquered, prove Lute and Adam’s point, and then season 3 exterminations are back on the menu, and this time they won’t leave there weapons lying around.

I'm late here, but wtf does she mean by "reclaim hell?" For queer people? Weird hill to die on but okay. Doesn't that just say Christians are right about gays and the woke crowd going to hell?

So this is something I hear from my atheistic Family members: “If I go to hell, at least I will be with the fun people”.

When they say reclaim hell, it has less to do with Hell, and more to do with them. It’s them wanting to say that the people going there aren’t “evil” just different. Really the issue is Heaven, and Heaven having rules and standards. She wants to show that hell is filled with good people that made mistakes, the issue is, it’s juxtaposed with them being complete monsters while there. It’s why Pen’s backstory is so stupid, because if he’d committed an actual real sin in their eyes (murder or something), then he does not in fact deserve redemption.

It’s why some of the sins are “Good sins” according to someone with access to patreon. Pride, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth are “neutral(Pride)/good” it’s because try and look at their world view. Pride parades. Countless sexual partners, poly-whatever they’re call now, gender identity, and the plague upon humanity that is porn. Body positivity, if that’s still a thing. And then Anti-work. All of these things in one way or another are baked into their ideology. If these are truly sins, then there is a way to depict each one negatively, if that is the case, then there is a chance that THEY will be depicted negatively, if they can be depicted negatively in a way that’s logical and makes sense, then it stands to reason that they’re ideology, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it, is wrong or they’re wrong.

In order for them to “reclaim hell”, the message has to be that those being sent there aren’t that bad, and it’s Heaven and its laws that’s wrong. In order to maintain that, the sins themselves must be good. Gluttony must go against its nature and preach moderation. Lust must give an actual choice instead of the answer just always being Yes, with no depravity being too extreme. Pride, must be shown as being correct, just feel about things some times, instead of having the humility to admit when you are wrong in the first place. (Sloth is MIA ATM).

If this show were to actually do research, say read the writings of St. Thomas Aquinous who gave us the logic behind the virtue, then they would have to actually engage in a debate of ideas, and look happens with their straw-men, people think they make total sense. An actual nuanced debate? Maybe, not everyone, some people start reconsidering things. If that’s the case, then maybe there’s a chance that yes, their lifestyles are wrong, Hell is a punishment/a choice, and those that fall do so because of their choices, meaning that the Laws and Rules are correct, and if that’s the case, yes, they are in the wrong, the bigots are correct and maybe, just maybe, they may actually have to make a change in their lives. And because of their biggest sin, Pride, they can’t be wrong. It’s impossible for them to be wrong. So let’s not do that, and here we are, Hazbin Hotel is born!

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

While Charlie did manage to get Pentious into Heaven, she did also led what amounts to an insurrection against Heaven, which resulted in the death of Adam – a very important figure all things considered.

Lute, or at least somebody, really should have pointed out that Pentious died and got redeemed while trying to take out Adam, and he also played a major role in coordinating the defense of the Hotel. You think him being directly involved in the deaths of Adam and who knows how many Exorcists would be a major part of his trial.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I'm late here, but wtf does she mean by "reclaim hell?" For queer people? Weird hill to die on but okay. Doesn't that just say Christians are right about gays and the woke crowd going to hell?

I despise her vision of hell. It isn't hell. It's 'vivziepop's painfully incoherent universe' that can't decide what it wants to be.

You can visually see her idea of hell go from a shitty place to live inhabited by vile monsters to a Tumblr blogger's paradise. In the pilot, demons actually looked scary, Pride was gritty and dirty, and they had actual evil people exist and be famous in that world.


Fast forward to the real show and everyone's pleasant and good looking, hell is clean and pristine. Even the local tribe of cannibals aren't portrayed as anything worse than edgy Tumblr Sexymen like everyone else



I think what actually happened is that she had a much more...precise version of hell in her notes but the more she expanded on the premise and had to make the yaoi plots work, the world had to become more like Earth for any of her characters to be remotely likable.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

It’s not that I particularly disagree, but ya might want to keep your kinks to yourself, my dude.

Ha - it's not about kinks or finding this hot, don't worry! It's just that I found strangely amusing. I don't know why. Like when you find soething and you just chuckle about it.

Not to mention Abel also being a twink, and him and Peter are definitely fucking.

Shouldn't Abel be grieving the loss of his father or something? Inconsistencies.

You can visually see her idea of hell go from a shitty place to live inhabited by vile monsters to a Tumblr blogger's paradise. In the pilot, demons actually looked scary, Pride was gritty and dirty, and they had actual evil people exist and be famous in that world.
View attachment 6649528

Fast forward to the real show and everyone's pleasant and good looking, hell is clean and pristine. Even the local tribe of cannibals aren't portrayed as anything worse than edgy Tumblr Sexymen like everyone else
View attachment 6649542


I think what actually happened is that she had a much more...precise version of hell in her notes but the more she expanded on the premise and had to make the yaoi plots work, the world had to become more like Earth for any of her characters to be remotely likable.

Huh, that looks like Jeffrey Dahmer in the pannel, for the pilot.

And you're right, for the second picture it's just a "Town for people who eat other people". I wouldn't be impressed if they are "Behaved, but by satan don't be RACIST!!!"

 

[InJailOutSoon]

They're doing the whole Katie Killjoy meets Charlie introduction again which just doesn't make the pilot obsolete, but also the first episode of the Amazon show. We see Charlie with Katie in the commercial Alastor makes.

They're also redoing the whole "I don't touch the gays" bit, but worse and not funny. In fact, that pretty much describes the show's version of Katie Killjoy. They're like a completely different person. I can't imagine Pilot Katie Killjoy saying that she wishes Vox would "bend her" on air. She would probably snap your dick in half for even thinking she would do that. I have to remember that Katie is only shown for about 4 minutes in the 45 minute pilot anyway, yet you can tell that the Voice Actress, Writers, and Artists really put their heart to make her small screen time that memorable.

She really lost her edge. But I can pretty much say that for every character that appeared in the pilot to their show counterpart. As someone in the thread mentioned earlier, the vileness and grittiness are long gone from the pilot days.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Shouldn't Abel be grieving the loss of his father or something? Inconsistencies

Nobody but Lute is shown to give a shit that Adam got killed, or the dozens if not hundreds of other angels. I believe Lute is literally the only one to bring it up, they don't even try and justify it by Sera saying something like "Hellborn are exempt from the exterminations and he went there explicitly to kill Lucifer's daughter." to sweep it under the rug, they just don't talk about it.

 

[Gondolindrim]

View attachment 6650716
They're doing the whole Katie Killjoy meets Charlie introduction again which just doesn't make the pilot obsolete, but also the first episode of the Amazon show. We see Charlie with Katie in the commercial Alastor makes.

They're also redoing the whole "I don't touch the gays" bit, but worse and not funny. In fact, that pretty much describes the show's version of Katie Killjoy. They're like a completely different person. I can't imagine Pilot Katie Killjoy saying that she wishes Vox would "bend her" on air. She would probably snap your dick in half for even thinking she would do that. I have to remember that Katie is only shown for about 4 minutes in the 45 minute pilot anyway, yet you can tell that the Voice Actress, Writers, and Artists really put their heart to make her small screen time that memorable.

She really lost her edge. But I can pretty much say that for every character that appeared in the pilot to their show counterpart. As someone in the thread mentioned earlier, the vileness and grittiness are long gone from the pilot days.

Wow, they're really gonna keep Brandon Rogers huh? Are they aware that he's a man and Katie's a woman or...?

 

[Grand Duke Snowfall]

Wow, they're really gonna keep Brandon Rogers huh? Are they aware that he's a man and Katie's a woman or...?

This was actually my first time hearing Rogers as Katie and good lord, it’s worse than I expected. None of the energy from the pilot, legitimately just sounds like a man with notes of Blitzo coming through. Why did Vivzie think this was a good idea.
Oh, that’s right. She doesn’t think.

 

[Dr. Butt]

It’s not that I particularly disagree, but ya might want to keep your kinks to yourself, my dude.

This thread needs an Infected tag.

Hell is just a fun quirky sandbox for Vivzie and the pop goth types, its more of an aesthetic than an actual depiction of vice and sin.

Viv's Hell is a copy of Hell from JTHM, and the show's version of Heaven is a non-hilarious version of Heaven from JTHM. The setting's design is just automatic to anyone of that subculture because Vasquez was such a huge influence on them.

Cerberus is associated with the circle of Gluttony and she’s basically a revamped design of Viv’s old sparkledog character Jojo, who she used in a Kesha music video.

I feel truly grateful to live such a safe, comfortable, and leisure-filled life that I can understand every word of this sentence.