Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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The cope i keep seeing on reddit about Helluva boss not betraying it's premise is insane.

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If Always Sunny can go for 18 seasons then i think it should be possible to write a dark comedy and not turn it into yaoi.
>"The original premise was never good."
Forget all the unique ideas this thread and others came up with that add nuance to the assassin business, just do the same soap opera melodrama over and over again.

>"'Demons are bad and do bad stuff lol' isn't really something you can do much with."
Then why even make them evil creatures in the first place if they won't do evil things?
 
l*ftoid propaganda & falsehood, here is what the REAL Alastor's new year's resolution is
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>"'Demons are bad and do bad stuff lol' isn't really something you can do much with."
Then why even make them evil creatures in the first place if they won't do evil things?

Remember, this show is really just a safe edgy Hot Topic section disguised as some deep, mature show. They wouldn't dare make these characters actually morally ambiguous. We all know how much they change moralities depending if the character focused is either a protagonist or an antagonist. There's a lot you can do with exploring evil. Heck, I'd say Squid Game is probably one of the better shows out there that actually explored morality and evil pretty well. A bit autistic to praise Squid Game in this day and age but at least I can look at these characters and go, "Wow, these characters are pretty bad! But there's reasoning behind why they act like this and aren't like this for the sake of being like this.".

For Viv's show, I'm more on the side of, "Wow, these characters really don't know when to care about morals and Vivziepop retconned these characters like there's no tomorrow! No wonder she had to suddenly make them goody two shoes and not imps whose morals should be as buckbroken as Vivziepop's writing!"

They say you can't do much with, right? So the only acceptable way is just them lil uwu gay baby's who have like lots of trauma and DARK past? That's. That's not really any better! Don't they see that? I'd rather see demons do bad things than them suddenly caring about morals, not because they want those morals, but because to fulfill a wet dream. A wet dream of being with someone who constantly belittled your species and treated them lesser than dirt, only to gaslight the lower demon into believing that they did no wrong!

And now look, they're canonically a couple! Great job, Vivziepop. Great job, commenter. Truly demons doing bad stuff is a bigger writing sacrifice than two touch starved characters with like 50 mental disorders getting together, with one who's a neglectful cheater and another one who has severe Stockholm Syndrome and didn't want to kill a couple because they were gay.

Such change, many based, the Stolitz fanbase say in unison.
 
Won't be shocked at all if in the case there's more shown about Alastor's past that wasn't in the leaks back in November, it will reveal most the people that he killed and cannibalized were mean racist whites who gave him shit for being mixed.
Tfw Alastor practices racism by eating white only.

Black and mixed meats isn't good enough it seems.
 
I used to see some sort of promise in Viv's shows back in the day. I decided to give them a chance and look past the faggotry and "edginess" and just focus on the fun stuff like the animation and effort put in it. However, I noticed something wrong. Really wrong.

Have you seen how Vivziepop promoted Helluva Boss's premise as a funny demon show about funny animated assassin demons doing funny things in silly situations doing work on earth? At first, that was the premise, but no. She had to make everything gay angst. Then, when I found out the human world adventures went to Helluva Shorts, that's it. I was done. What the main series should have been got turned into side quests instead and the main quest was Stolitz faggotry. Of course, I need not explain this, since the show is made by traggots and appeals to the same cur, traggot sex is the good sex and normal sex is bad - proof is what they did to Stella and that no straight man in the show is happy or what. It has lost its way. That's all.


Then, Hazbin Hotel. This is more personal, but I must say it - Vivziepop is evidently angry at Christianity and boils biblical stuff down to one thing in her rendition of Adam: "sexist." She cannot portray the figures right for a deep show and just makes them cuss, be edgy, and be sexual. I don't know why, but I used to read the bible leisurely and I'll say that I don't remember a Lilith being mentioned because Viv is definitely going, "oh no Lilith doesn't want to doggystyle with Adam bible sexist waaaa." I really don't think she should've inserted actual biblical stuff and lore. She should've kept it simple and silly where the devil has a daughter who rebels against him by being a good person and chooses who to redeem (drug addicts, people forced to be bad like forced to join a mafia, insecure weirdos who did bad things but are still redeemable at heart, etc.).


I am not really offended by how Viv portrays Abrahamic faith and things associated with it. I'm just...unsettled....by how she does it. It doesn't feel like a critique even. It feels like a temper tantrum where the angry person goes "FUCK YOU DAD AND MOM FOR TELLING ME NOT TO WEAR MY HOT TOPIC COSTUME AND DYE MY HAIR IN CHURCH!" But no. Imagine if that were Islam or Judaism she was portraying. I don't know, but it has been normalized to vocally criticize and mock Christianity, but when it's Islam or Judaism, it just warrants gentler criticism with a more "logical" and quiet tone to it.



TL;DR - Helluva Boss should've been a funny demon show instead of faggot angst. Hazbin Hotel shouldn't have had religious figures in it and instead stayed a simple, fantasy hell where the devil has a daughter who rebels by being a good person. Both have the vibe of "FUCK THE CHURCH WAAA" and Viv bowed down too easily to the faggots who like shipping.
 
The cope i keep seeing on reddit about Helluva boss not betraying it's premise is insane.

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If Always Sunny can go for 18 seasons then i think it should be possible to write a dark comedy and not turn it into yaoi.
I feel like I always bring this up, but I will bring it up anyway: Phineas and Ferb managed to be entertaining with a premise that repeats itself in almost every episode. The reason why it worked was because the people behind it actually knew what they were doing.

Also, Dr. Doofenshmirtz is a much better dad that tries than StolASS. He actually changed in the end to be a good person because of his daughter. I doubt that's going to happen with Stolas, and it's going to be Octavia that has to change.
 
Got this video in my recommendations and there was something the dude talked about that mildly annoyed me enough for me to whine about it here.

I was sort of agreeing with some of the things he brought up in the first few minutes, but when he began complimenting how "earned" the relationship ""growth"" was between Loona and Blitzo despite this woman has had little to no development other than she was the 3938th character to have a sad, tragic backstory with tears and snot. What sort of development even happened between the two? Last thing I remember the two doing together was her hitting Blitzo in the nuts in Seeing Stars. Other than that she was mostly voiceless throughout all the other episodes or the two had no real interaction.

The dude apparently thought "hitting your father in the balls one episode - > suddenly feeling sympathy for him and saying you love him after almost seeing him get decapitated on live tv = character growth? Just don't make sense to me. Maybe the reason she suddenly went all "I love you, Dad" to him was because of what I already just said? The fact she almost saw him DIE on live TV and was merely relieved she didn't see a headless father in front of her?

Plus, isn't Loona canonically 22? 22?? I still don't get why he said for Millie and Moxxie to "take care of her" as if she's still a minor. She's a GROWN woman! Why hasn't Blitzo taught her how to act like an adult and do adult things like... I don't know, learning to get her own apartment or her own job! Why does she still act like she's 16 when she's a literal adult?

Also, the thumbnail had "underhated" in the bottom row. Like, what? This episode is very hated if you actually bother to look beyond the Stolitz hotspot zone.

Other than that, he said some points that I already was very aware of, but I definitely couldn't help but smirk when he brought up in 8:19 on how Vivziepop managed to make Satan, literally the most known person in all of Demonology and Christian Theology (he said ruler of hell but I wanted to paraphrase it), boring and uninteresting. A true achievement like any other, they say!
 
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Plus, isn't Loona canonically 22? 22?? I still don't get why he said for Millie and Moxxie to "take care of her" as if she's still a minor. She's a GROWN woman! Why hasn't Blitzo taught her how to act like an adult and do adult things like... I don't know, learning to get her own apartment or her own job! Why does she still act like she's 16 when she's a literal adult?

More fuel to the conspiracy (?) theory that Loona was originally written as a teenager but Vivzie said she's 22 to sell sexy merch and appease the coomers.
 
The dude apparently thought "hitting your father in the balls one episode - > suddenly feeling sympathy for him and saying you love him after almost seeing him get decapitated on live tv = character growth?
I think folks are trying to see too much sense in Loona hitting Blitzo in the nuts. The creators most likely thought it would simply be funny to have a groin attack scene and then used it in Blitzo’s flashback, just because they’ve remembered that it exists and can be interpreted differently within a new context.
Other than that, he said some points that I already was very aware of
I’m glad that cartoon reviewers are reading our posts.
 
Here's what a reviewer said about Loona kicking Blitzo in the junk, it's simple: bad writing. The writing in that episode was supposed to be:

1. Conflict with dad

2. Problem arises - turns out it was someone who also has conflict with dad

3. Loona relates her daddy issues to Via, who also has daddy issues. "He's trying his best."

4. Conflict resolved for now. Dad comes in and everyone reunites.


For a joke, they threw away the development. If this were a well-written scene, they'd have Loona chill out from the conflict with Blitzo (he said he'd replace her) after her advice for Via for a bit and just go "Yeah, cool" apathetically minus the angry kick in the junk which everyone will read as her being bitter about Blitzo's unintentionally hurtful statement and therefore not coming to terms that fathers are not perfect people but are still trying. It's still in character but good development!




Same thing goes for Stolas and Octavia. He says, "no I love you I won't leave you for anyone or anything blah blah blah." What does he do? He leaves Via for Blitzo, something he said HE WON'T DO. The development has been thrown away. For what? Stolitz. That's the only explanation.


All I'm thinking now is Helluva Boss should have stuck to the simple "funny demon doing funny things while killing humans for vengeful sinner" plot it presented. That's all.
 
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Aren't the nutjobs who also go on about how the left are "snowflakes who cannot take edgy humor", yet they squirm themselves a plenty. Ironic, ain't it?

I never saw the healthy appeal of mainstream YouTube funny guy animators, like FlashGitz and MeatCanyon.
Racist mario is definitely dated to the newgrounds era, afterall (I think) that's where Flashgitz originally hails. MC's major pull is his character design hands down. I've personally enjoyed Space King but its functionally Metalocalypse for 40k autist which is probably why I like it
 
From the same /trash/ thread I lifted that link from:
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Stuff like this reminds me why I ever pop into those generals from time to time.
Alastor lost his shit and hid away when Adam got him bitchmade. He’s only calm when he feels he has the upper hand, and his self-control is so poor he started antagonizing Lucifer, the ruler of Hell and one of the few demons stronger than him, PLUS the father of his ticket to freedom or whatever, in some sort of dick-measuring contest. He’s not stoic or calm under pressure at all. I’m focusing on him specifically because he’s a complete waste of a character and, compared to his pilot version, a massive disappointment. “Nah, I’d win” may be a joke now, but he’s the ultimate punchline.

The rest is fucking gibberish.
 
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I am not really offended by how Viv portrays Abrahamic faith and things associated with it. I'm just...unsettled....by how she does it.
Her spite and contempt for the religion shows through her teeth. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm God's greatest defender, or even religious, but someone who merely has critique about it does not make HH and HB into what is today. It is a spite piece, and it shows. Its pitiful.

Boss should have stuck to the simple "funny demon doing funny things while killing humans for vengeful sinner" plot it presented.
Literally the most compelling aspect of viv's hell is that everyone here deserved it. play into that, make these people assholes who consistently get what they deserve to the viewers enjoyment. You could have I.M.P consistently going after deplorables because another deplorable wanted them dead for dumb, selfish reasons. You could have a joke where all the good, Respectable people are completely oblivious to this, because you know, they're not retarded (You know that bit in the boondocks about the "nigga moment"? something like that.)

And what do we get instead? Gay nigger escapades.
Its over.
 
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If Helluva focused on Blitz' weird dynamic with Loona they could make a really interesting father daughter conflict. The fact that she's still acts like a teenager, combined with her dependence on him shows Blitz' faults really well. His poor parenting left her mentally stunted, despite her still being a capable assassin, because he infantilised her. Loona, meanwhile, is frustrated with this, but still unwilling to actually put in the effort to be more independent, showing that she, too, has flaws preventing growth.

The show doesn't really care about this, though, and is fine portraying her as a child when she isn't. Idk, I just think this kind of conflict isn't usually shown in media and it could be good.
 
Her spite and contempt for the religion shows through her teeth. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm God's greatest defender, but someone who merely has critique about it does not make HH and HB into what is today. It is a spite piece, and it shows. Its pitiful.
I actually saw it showing with the constant daddy issues thing. God and other deities and stuff being worshipped are usually viewed as fathers in a lot of cultures. HH and HB felt like they were written by someone angry at that concept in general as in teh patriarchy. Well, think about it. Who's usually been fighting in the wars and going out hunting, protecting and feeding the women and children? The fathers, sons, husbands, grandfathers, and brothers. It's no surprise that some concepts would be portrayed as male deities regarding how they can be personified as protectors, motivators, and providers. Some people just need to get their head out of their ass and accept that hard fact.





That was the whole point of Viv's stuff. They're nasty people acting nasty and getting nasty comeback for their vile behavior. Here's the problem - she made them all lgbtqia+ in some way and they're all demons in hell. Look at the implications of that to her audience - basically, it's saying "fags die God laughs and all guys should go to hell" indirectly. So, she had to make them uwu innocent babies who are actually kind, good, fighting the patriarchy and elitist blah blah. "Fighting the patriarchy," my word. Then why is it always the men getting the character development? The kinky, dirty sexual time? In their context, that'd be sexism because the women aren't being developed and are being portrayed as being incapable of feeling any semblance of healthy sexual desire.


Literally the most compelling aspect of viv's hell is that everyone here deserved it. play into that, make these people assholes who consistently get what they deserve to the viewers enjoyment. You could have I.M.P consistently going after deplorables because another deplorable wanted them dead for dumb, selfish reasons. You could have a joke where all the good, Respectable people are completely oblivious to this, because you know, they're not retarded






In all honesty, I was shocked to find Loona was 22 or something, not even 18, when I first looked at the wiki. I assumed she was actually 15-16, considering the setting is hell and minors doing very dangerous work is most likely the least of their concerns. It was very unsettling, considering one theory mentioned here that they wanted Loona to be a teen but got horny looking at her so they made her an immature 22 year old. Well, I don't think it's too bad a choice, considering Loona drinks and most likely does drugs. That could fuck your brain over.


Actually, no. All of them act like teenagers angry at teh religion, muh parents, the fact that mom has a swear jar, and the fact that drugs and alcohol are bad for the mind and body and that you'd rather not start at all than struggle to quit. That's also why everyone is in hell. The people making the show would rather go to hell and jump around in it like in a sandbox game for being awful than navigate a way to improve themselves.
If Helluva focused on Blitz' weird dynamic with Loona they could make a really interesting father daughter conflict. The fact that she's still acts like a teenager, combined with her dependence on him shows Blitz' faults really well. His poor parenting left her mentally stunted, despite her still being a capable assassin, because he infantilised her. Loona, meanwhile, is frustrated with this, but still unwilling to actually put in the effort to be more independent, showing that she, too, has flaws preventing growth.

The show doesn't really care about this, though, and is fine portraying her as a child when she isn't. Idk, I just think this kind of conflict isn't usually shown in media and it could be good.



Also, about the artstyle, it's too detailed. How the hell are they animating this thing? Like, it's nice to see something that isn't a Family Guy or Simpsons clone, but try and tone down the details for the animator's sake. For example, Husk and his wings. At least be creative and make them a cute, retractable surprise because it's a fictional hell anyway. Another problem is Angel Dust. Each time I look at him, for some reason, it always evokes someone with a slightly turned head 3/4 view.


Don't get me wrong, some of the songs are catchy and sometimes the art is beautiful and with fluid animation, but these shows just aren't the queer, feminist, something-whatever masterpieces many make them out to be.

Hell, I've seen people on Twitter calling both shows out! Remember how Stolas said "I don't look down on you?" I no longer watch HH and HB, but someone sent the clip and I listened to Stolas's voice and it sounded mocking, like how it would be typed out as "I dOn'T LooK DowN oN YOU 🤡." Then someone also complained he didn't see Alastor's horns and that his ears made him look more like a wolf or fox (true enough because I mistook him for a wolf). God, some people can't take criticism, and those were mostly traggots.
 
Let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree with this... I just wanna know your thoughts. Sorry if this was discussed already.

But do you guys think that there is a general hatred for being human in either HH or HB?

I'm not quite caught up with HB, but in HH the only character who seems to be the most human is Adam. I say this since during the climax, Charlie's demon form is revealed as an epic, powerful thing, but when Adam loses his mask, it's during his defeat where he's revealed to be just a man, as if it was the source of his weakness.
 
Let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree with this... I just wanna know your thoughts. Sorry if this was discussed already.

But do you guys think that there is a general hatred for being human in either HH or HB?

I'm not quite caught up with HB, but in HH the only character who seems to be the most human is Adam. I say this since during the climax, Charlie's demon form is revealed as an epic, powerful thing, but when Adam loses his mask, it's during his defeat where he's revealed to be just a man, as if it was the source of his weakness.
I mean, ths demon form that still got Charlie punted around like a football, until her dad arrived to bail her out. An honestly, can Adan even be considered human? Technically the guy died and thus ascended to Heaven (or was in Hell until Jmans sacrificed himself), but really him having wings, using holy magic and in some sense having a regeneration factor doesnt really make him human.
 
Then someone also complained he didn't see Alastor's horns and that his ears made him look more like a wolf or fox (true enough because I mistook him for a wolf).
Now that you mentioned it, Alastor being a wolf or fox is more fitting since both are predators and the fox is depicted as cunning in stories. Maybe Viv made him a deer to invoke the wendigo only to realize that mythical creature is not part of New Orleans folklore and had to make up the "Alastor was mistaken for a deer by a hunter" explanation to fix it.
 
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