William James Mitchell vs. Twin Galaxies LLC, Jeff Harrist & Jeremy Young & donkeykongforum.com, Benjamin Q Smith

[Fat At The Internet]

Does anyone have an archive of Billy's initial intent to sue over the Apollo statement? It seems pretty clear cut that the lawsuit had always been over Apollo.
De Orio played it on his stream but I think Billy privated it.
All I could find is this clip (cant fucking embed shorts)

https://youtube.com/shorts/5puC5_3XXQM?si=4zMPFev2I5dQT4ab

Got you, bud.
Published on 2021-06-04 | Archived on 2025-02-01

https://preservetube.com/watch?v=z9w6-sTdVvs

 

[Berrakh]

It’s worse even iirc. Cause i remember in one of his vids him saying he was wrong and told he was wrong and was doubling down because since Billy lied about so much he must by lying and threatening people about this.

Which is seemingly the reason the judge is so pissed at Karl

This, and everything @AnOminous has said these past few pages, is why lawsuits and court are tricky. Just a tiny bit of additional context torpedos an entire line of defense or turns a mitigating factor into an aggravating one.

Generally speaking the law has been refined by people trying to lie their way out of their comeuppance so you’ll probably make yours worse by trying.

 

[Chadikus Maximus]

It's not really the records themselves that I found interesting about speedrunning, it's the glitch hunting and all the silly things people discover.

Exactly this, it is why the average speedrunner is essentially a cargo cultists they don't do anything new they just follow a step by step guide and the current record holder was just able to push the imputs faster then the last guy

 

[Captain Manning]

Everyone seems confused that he was sued by Billy for accursing him of causing Apollos death and not that Billy cheated on a video game 40 years ago.

Why didint Karl make it more clear what he was going with this suit? Now his fanbase are angry and confused.

Because the truth of the lawsuit didn't support the narrative Karl wanted to run with. A narrative meant for grifting.

And it's pretty clear Karl's narrative (involving a heavy amount of obfuscation) worked given the fact there are/were so many people here, and elsewhere, that think this case had anything to do with high scores in video games.

Q: How the hell did Billy win if he cheated at Donkey Kong?
A: Because the lawsuit was never about that aspect of Billy.

I think if Karl upfront about why he was being sued, people would have told him to stop being a faggot and retract the comment he made about Apollo Legend's suicide. I think he knew that too.

Karl's an idiot. I don't know if he should have to pay Billy that much money, but he did deserve to lose this IMO.

 

[Scorpion From MK]

Here's Karl's best buddy, darkviper, addressing Apollo's suicide back when it happened. He sulks about how he is the real victim the entire time.

Personally I wouldn't blame Dark Viper for Apollo's suicide but the scummy thing he did with this video is that he released it the day of (or the day after depending on the time zone) Apollo's suicide. This dipshit pissed all of the over the fresh corpse of Apollo by crying about dislikes and trying to paint Apollo as a malicious and manipulative person. So while DarkViper isn't responsible for Apollo's suicide he is still a scumbag for releasing a video after Apollo's suicide where he shat on him relentlessly without a second thought.

Karl is still good friends with the guy who drove a hate campaign against apollo and was named in apollo's suicide note as being the final push.

(https://ghostarchive.org/archive/iTM2g)


(https://archive.ph/kas1U)

It's even more pathetic. Karl became friends again with Dark Viper when he banned and removed him from all socials because DarkViper didn't approve of Karl's sponsorship choice. That's how pathetic Karl is.

Does anyone have an archive of Billy's initial intent to sue over the Apollo statement?

PreserveTube / GhostArchive / Archive.org
The original video is in mono which means that the audio only comes out from one side. I changed it to stereo so it comes out from both sides.

Billy Mitchell Accuses Me Of Fraud During Insane Rant! [@ 10;58]

Here is the clip with full context.

PreserveTube / GhostArchive / Wayback Machine

Spoiler: Local Archive

Both of their involvements the events that led him to kill himself can be discerned from EZScape's expose video on Apollo Legend.

Wayback Machine / PreserveTube / GhostArchive

EZScape obviously did nothing wrong except being a faggot (also his video was pre-empted by 2 months by a twitter post where he represented himself as a friend of Apollo and told him not to kill himself over the DV drama).

(https://archive.fo/rMJ2I)





(https://archive.fo/wjl6K)

Spoiler: Text

Regarding Apollo Legend:

I first found out about Apollo Legend through my YouTube recommended. This was during a period where I quit playing Runescape and creating YouTube videos for my mental health. Apollo's highlights of the speedrunning scene were my favorite content to watch, very similar to GRSmash.

One day Apollo posted a video "Speedrunning Needs Content Creators" and that video is what would eventually inspire me to create speedrunning videos myself. I took a slightly different approach to Apollo where his videos were about speedrunners reactions to things (fails, salt, pop offs, etc) and mine were about the speedruns themselves (skips, glitches, strats). I always admired and looked up to Apollo though, because in my mind he's the reason I've gotten this far in the first place.

But Apollo's content took a weird turn. He noticed that salty speedrun moments did exceptionally well compared to the other content he was creating. If I had to guess nearly 50% of the videos on his channel were salty speedrun moments (there had to have been 10-20 videos in the series). Now I don't think there's a problem with those types of videos existing, everyone enjoys a little bit of salt and if the people featured in the clips are fine with the clips being shared then there are really no issues. The problem is a lot of the people featured in these videos did NOT want their clips to be shared. These were people in their most vulnerable state, who probably have other things going on in life and may be acting out because they feel like they're in a safe environment or that nobody is watching anyways. The speedrun community also didn't like that people were starting to associate speedrunners with salt/rage. Eventually they struck back and started copyright striking his videos. I'm not sure if it was the strikes or just that Apollo had a change of perspective, but he eventually removed all of those videos (based on my conversations with him I believe it's the latter).

Another thing I didn't like about Apollo were his videos targeting Games Done Quick. These videos contained lies about the organization, the charities involved, and the organizers themselves. I could go deeper into explaining why, but CoolMatty (GDQ event organizer) 3 years ago explained all of this perfectly on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/c...edrun_ever_a_minidoc_about/dhjkr43/?context=3

When Apollo researches videos he only looks at evidence that suits his narrative and avoids all data or perspectives that would prove him otherwise. He has too much bias. I've spoken out about this before in this video made by Glink. Please watch from the timestamp 13:08 to 14:16 to hear more about how he's lied about the event's finances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5TGFEoidEM&feature=youtu.be&t=788

Apollo if you're reading this please delete these videos. I think it's fine to criticize GDQ as they play an important role in our community, and it's fair to be protective of that, but these videos are propaganda and you know it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6hPJpxzm4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlLvq_v38G4

While we are on the topic of Games Done Quick, it's time to talk about the RWhiteGoose video... yeah you know the one. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, please watch DarkViperAU's videos criticizing Apollo about said video(s) as Apollo has deleted the video from his channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmcQEjoG0d0&list=PLAnJ4ZuTYaeHQz20-Sb5EjiO9yxuWxVeR

I was so happy that DarkViper made these videos calling Apollo out, although I feel like I should have been the one to do so, but there's no way I could have done it as eloquently as DarkViper did. I'm glad we have people in the community like him and I highly respect him for it. Although people probably noticed that I was surprisingly quiet during the time that the Goose ban and Apollo video came out, and I'd like to explain more to why that was.

When Goose was banned, I was pretty vacant and busy with other things while it was going on, and truthfully at the time I didn't fully understand what he was banned for. I read through some of the imgur album (I have ADHD so it's difficult for me to read a large doc like that with nazi language and dogwhistling I didn't really understand) and it was obviously things I didn't agree with, but it wasn't until Darkviper's video and me giving an honest FULL read through that I comprehended what was really being said. As someone who holds a lot of influence in the community, I should have made myself more aware of what was going on at the time instead of putting my hands over my ears and saying "wahh I just wanna play video games fast guys, cmon." It was childish and in the future, I will hold myself more accountable on making sure I speak out about these kinds of things. I want speedrunning to remain an open space that anyone can participate in no matter who they are.

Now I was planning on tweeting out after I had my full opinions on Apollo's video, but I held back. The reason was because in a private discord server Apollo posted the video unlisted for a few of us to look over before making it live. He posted this video at 5 AM and I was so tired I didn't even watch it past the 2 minute mark. That was when I should have spoken up and stopped him from posting the video, and since then I've felt partially responsible for its existence. I felt like a hypocrite if I tweeted out about his video in hindsight when I should have expressed my opinions to him directly right there and then.

As time went on other people started posting videos lying about GDQ and I wanted to make a video debunking the claims and explaining why I support the organization. A lot of people don't know this, but I actually volunteer for GDQ creating all of the custom thumbnails you see on the YouTube VODs and I create the official highlights posted each year. So, I contacted Matty before working on a video like this to see if that was alright since I was affiliated with the org and didn't want to step on any toes. Matty was actually all for me making the video (he hates Apollo) but PR turned me down and said not to give it any attention, so I didn't. Honestly, they were probably right to turn me down, but I did try even though a lot people assumed I just didn't care.

I legitimately don't understand why Apollo made this video. He describes a hate mob that is targeting speedrunners which may or may not exist, with absolutely no evidence other than wq rambling. Furthermore, he blindly defends Goose which gives off the impression that everything that he said was okay, which it was NOT. Like how are you going to defend Goose when he's openly apologizing for what he said and accepts the ban. You really can't, but Apollo does it anyways and signals everyone to go subscribe to Goose... for what reason? Again, Apollo's bias is present in any video he gives his opinion in, to the point he defends white nationalism. Him and Goose were good friends (Apollo has an entire video dedicated to Goose and they worked closely together on Oceanside). Now I do not think that Apollo is personally bigoted because I actually have had conversations with him about this kind of stuff before, way before any of this stuff happened. But just because you're not a racist, you still defended one which isn't much better. Goose also didn't like that Apollo made the video either, I don't think he wanted defended.

In these regards I honestly hold Goose to a higher esteem than Apollo, because at least he apologized for what he did, and is taking steps to become a better person. That's literally all I can ask from someone, and I know that isn't enough for a lot of people and doesn't excuse what he said, but I'm not a hateful person. I don't want to continually shit on him and give him no reason to get better, but I'm also not going to endorse him either. Regardless of all of this Apollo has never apologized for shit, and I don't know why. You're allowed to be wrong, you're allowed to make mistakes, but you just delete your mistakes and never atone. I need some shred of remorse from you.

I feel so conflicted about my feelings on Apollo. He's always been so nice towards me and I've looked up to him as a content creator for so long. He's the reason I have everything I have today. For that reason, I let far too many things slide that I shouldn't have. I also felt like Apollo had some personal issues which were why he would disappear for periods and why even I couldn't get a hold of him for months. I worried about him, and I could never find an appropriate time to approach him where it wouldn't just make him feel worse. And I didn't want to lose a friend. I don't know if Apollo thought of me that way, but I wanted to be friends with him, I want to be friends with everybody. But I didn't reach out to him, I never did enough to make sure he was alright, I never expressed enough to him that I didn't agree with what he was doing, I'm a bad friend. Friends don't do all of that and then make a twitlonger when it's most convenient, but here I am, tired of being silent.

For a long time I thought a speedrun drama channel was necessary, so I always appreciated Apollo being there to cover stuff going on in our community, but I was so wrong. We don't need a fucking Keemstar. Bringing our community drama to a large audience has only fueled hate towards people that have only made the heinous act of cheating in a video game. We should be more responsible with who we expose and make sure it's only people that deserve it, not to farm YouTube views, as tempting as it may be. I started getting less of the opinion that Apollo was out for justice rather than views when he started uploading videos during the Caveira ordeal. During this time he uploaded 3 videos about Caveira in order to help defend me, which was a nice gesture, but he NEVER TOLD ME HE WAS MAKING EVEN A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE VIDEOS. I felt really weird about this because I felt like he was just posting the videos for views rather than trying to help me. His videos had misinformation in them and didn't include relevant information all because of his lack of communication.

That's all I want to say. Ben I appreciated you for a long time as a friend and as a content creator, and I wish you the best, but please stay out of the drama sphere. You're not responsible enough to handle it with care, and frankly our community doesn't need it. I wish you luck with the Billy Mitchell case because despite how I feel about you I still want that fucker to go down. Please do not go down a path of harming yourself, I do not want that at all, I just want you to be better because I know you're more than capable of it. Suicide is a trigger for me, a lot of people know this, and I sympathize with anyone going through those thoughts.

This is why I always end my videos with my silly saying, because no matter what life is worth living. And no matter who you are, or what you're going through right now, I hope you all have a beautiful life.

- Collin

DV had an optimistic at best explanation of his involvement in events

Wayback Machine / Archive.org / PreserveTube / GhostArchive

Spoiler: Local Archive

Even Billy Mitchell probably can't be considered guilty for contributing to Apollo's death, but there is a reason why Keemstar wanted to clarify that "Billy Mitchell was one of the many people behind the scenes trying whatever they could to get in contact with him before it was too late."

Tweet deleted. Archive your shit nigger.

(It's worth noting that Karl Jobst helped EZScape make this video)

What's your source on this?

Here is the gofundme announcement

PreserveTube / GhostArchive

Spoiler: Local Archive

but then coming out with a big statement or video (I can't remember which) which basically was a content nuke critical of Apollo.

It was a twitlonger in July 2020 and a video in October of the same year.

 

[Mr. Duck]

Don't feel bad for Karl Jobst, his new friend Baldy Harry got his back, and soon we will see him being sponsored by the Nebula mafia, and making exclusive and pretentious videos for them.

 

[BibiLivesMatter]

If he believed it, this would generally be a defense under the actual malice standard in the U.S. A major problem (that Karl did in fact lie about and deliberately conceal) was that he was told by a relative of Apollo Legend that he was wrong. Apollo Legend's statement also contradicted his claim.

Don't know why he put his family through all of this to try and get a legal win on a dude that cheated in games decades ago. Let alone even get involved with Billy, cause with how much he talks about Billy he should know Billy isn't afraid of legal battles.

I was surprised with many this was about the suicide accusations and not the cheating stuff too. I honestly don't remember hearing anything about the dude that suicided. Like I honestly thought the lawsuit was about the cheating accusations for the last few years when I vaguely followed it.

 

[UCT]

That and he got kicked out of GDQ for refusing to suck tranny dick.

Continuing to prove why Apollo was the only person who talks about Speed running and other gaming autism that I could actually stand.

 

[Near]

Even community notes.

It is a dark day to be Karl Jobst.

 

[Crispy Jakes]

It doesn't matter how many videos Jobst makes on the allegations that Billy Mitchell farted once in 1979, America's favourite hot sauce salesman always gets his W in the end.

Called it. When you swing at the King, you better not miss!

 

[samuraicrack]

The idea of a guy whose entire career is based around calling people out for misleading and cheating basing this whole lawsuit off of something that wasn’t even happening is so funny lmao

 

[volatile puar]

@Scorpion From MK I don't know why I'm not able to quote you, but all the things I posted were archived years ago by other people, even if any of these links were taken down 4 years late because I posted about them, it's very easy to just type in the URL on internet archive (I probably should have included a link to the version of EZScape's video on IA tbf). That Keemstar tweet is still available, I accidentally included a period in the URL like a nigger, and it seems like editing posts is disabled on this thread. The source for Karl Jobst helping to make the video is the description of EZScapes video "Special thanks to Karl Jobst and ersatz_cats for assisting me with research for this video and thanks to Nitrofski for giving me permission to use his Spyro 3 TAS."

 

[I Ran From Them Quickly]

I'm beginning to think ol' Karl thought he was more important than he was. Never really liked the guy - his whole wholesome shtick felt inauthentic.

This is what Goldeneye Any% does to a motherfucker.

Depressing that one of the few speedrunners that wasn't a troon seems to be just as stupid in the end...

 

[YouGuysAren'tThatSmart]

No matter what the retard judge is ruling, I won't change my mind that Billy caused the suicide.
That he gets now paid money for causing that is ridiculous.

I'm late on this. Suicide?

 

[Markorian]

I think part of the misunderstanding that people are getting caught on is that Billy WAS suing Twin Galaxies for removing his scores, while Twin Galaxies' defense was that he cheated and therefore the scores were invalid. Karl 100% intentionally conflated that case with his own in an attempt to grift though.

 

[Vapid_Idiot]

Please do the needful saars

 

[6MillionCoofs]

The idea of a guy whose entire career is based around calling people out for misleading and cheating basing this whole lawsuit off of something that wasn’t even happening is so funny lmao

I mean it may have been happening, not the first time people lie and say otherwise, but that’s what Karl built his brand on. Proving the stuff that liars say did not happen happened and he couldn’t, despite repratedly saying he could.

Even if the Judge had humoured Karl’s reasoning for believing it everything else Karl said would f him.

 

[Official Sylveon Account]

I didn't think it was possible, but seeing Karl's videos and the judge's quotes about this case, I can say he definetely beat Billy's record in the narcissistic speedrunner category. What an Absolute Legend!

Wonder if he's already working on his alimony any% speedrun?

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

I'm late on this. Suicide?

Billy settled a lawsuit against another Speedrun Streamer named "ApolloLegend", which pretty much killed his Youtube channel and because he was severely sick and this destroyed his channel and income he decided to end his life. (I imagine he fell into a deep depression with his hobby, income and center of life suddenly disappeared. Not atypical behavior to spiral after such a blow.)

Karl Jobst made the retarded statement, without evidence, that Billy got paid lots of money by ApolloLegend and caused his suicide by financially ruining him and then lost the lawsuit because they did not even challenge that part of the defamation and the judge accepted Billy's side as fact.

Having an opinion or making a statement of fact to an audience of 450k+ viewers is very different.
If you cannot support a claim you make to such a big audience and then refuse to apologize and walk it back, you get fucked in court.

My opinion remains that Billy being a vindictive asshole going after everyone with legal threats and lawsuits did cause harm to ApolloLegend. Karl Jobst not even arguing that part in court is on him.

 

[Dangerous Dude]

Karl Jobst maturing from a lolcalf to a full blown lolcow.