Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Goku has some of those tropes, but at the end of the day, he's a nobody. He's a Saiyan, but his father was a nobody, his mother was a nobody, and there's no secret chosen one stuff going on for him.

His father was a nobody but was unusually powerful for a low class Saiyan.

Y'know as much as I like cell, which is a lot, I do really like the idea of Gero and 19 then later 16-18 being the big bads of that saga. Or flip it and have the kids start off as the bad guys and we get the Oldman and Clown as the final showdown.
Cell genuinely feels like something better suited as an actual alien like Freeza. He's just too advanced and powerful to buy Gero making him, even with DragonBall's retarded SCIENCE! it uses.

I think the saga flowed almost perfectly. If I wanted to change anything it'd be giving 16 a bigger role, he was absolutely intended for more which was abandoned, I'm sure.

Take the Freeza Force healing chamber as an example, completely dwarfed by a fucking bean of all things.

Their chamber technology improved a lot as of RoF, they're well beyond Senzu Beans now, at least in terms of regenerative abilities, not speed.

Not very powerful.
Bulma doesn't into robotics.
Time Machines, Space Ships, Laser Guns, Shrink Rays, Unique Energy Locking on Radars, sure.
But not robotics/bio-augmentation.
In her own words, she can barely even understand the blueprints for 17 and 18, and she needed her dad to help out with 16.
Maybe if she had the blueprints, enough time to study, and all the machinery Gero used, then Yamcha would be around as strong as 17 (maybe a little above)

I don't know if it's that she's not into robotics that she didn't understand Hero's technology, I think it was just that he's more intelligent than her. It may be the question as to why he didn't just invent time travel himself then, but still, that's the way it seemed.

In Chrono Trigger and Dragon Quest it really shines. Like this is literally just Bulma with orange hair.

View attachment 7460558

It's similar but I think there must be little differences because I think of Bulma when I see Lucca, not Marle (and not just because they're both scientists). They're all at the very least highly similar though.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

His father was a nobody but was unusually powerful for a low class Saiyan.

Only if you take the non-canon OVA as your source.
We know practically nothing about Bardock's power in canon, other than the fact that he was a low-class that didn't trust Freeza and tried to rebel against him.
There's also the Toyotaro manga that did some stupid fucking bullshit with him, but I don't consider the manga canon, namely because it's fucking retarded.
"Hoho, monkey! I found a time chamber out in the middle of fucking space and trained for ten years!" is a bad fanfic tier plotpoint. So is wishing to be the strongest, now that I think about it.

 

[Trollblade69]

The entire human race needs to be exterminated, and now.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Only if you take the non-canon OVA as your source.
We know practically nothing about Bardock's power in canon, other than the fact that he was a low-class that didn't trust Freeza and tried to rebel against him.
There's also the Toyotaro manga that did some stupid fucking bullshit with him, but I don't consider the manga canon, namely because it's fucking retarded.
"Hoho, monkey! I found a time chamber out in the middle of fucking space and trained for ten years!" is a bad fanfic tier plotpoint. So is wishing to be the strongest, now that I think about it.

Toyotaro basically implied that some of the events of the Bardock film are canon, even Dodoria killing his team, but didn't commit. It doesn't make everything about it canon even if some of it debatably is, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that he was above average. Even in the Broly film he's the one trying to stop Frieza just like in the old movie.

View attachment 7463674
The entire human race needs to be exterminated, and now.

Why? I don't get it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Toyotaro basically implied that some of the events of the Bardock film are canon, even Dodoria killing his team, but didn't commit. It doesn't make everything about it canon even if some of it debatably is, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that he was above average. Even in the Broly film he's the one trying to stop Frieza just like in the old movie.

View attachment 7463686


Why? I don't get it.

Bardock was canonically ALWAYS trying to stop Freeza.
Freeza recognizes Goku as Bardock's son, and there's a big flashback panel of Bardock rebelling.
But again, all that proves is that Bardock rebelled, and Toyotaro's manga is fucking shit so again, I don't consider it at all canon. The Dragon Ball Super manga is kind of actual dogshit.
>Vegeta gets a new form that is powered by jobbing
>loses anyway

 

[Trollblade69]

Why? I don't get it.

Baby show on a post-midnight block.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Baby show on a post-midnight block.

Yeah bro, One Piece and Naruto (not even Shippuden)?
That's real fucked up.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Bardock was canonically ALWAYS trying to stop Freeza.
Freeza recognizes Goku as Bardock's son, and there's a big flashback panel of Bardock rebelling.
But again, all that proves is that Bardock rebelled, and Toyotaro's manga is fucking shit so again, I don't consider it at all canon. The Dragon Ball Super manga is kind of actual dogshit.
>Vegeta gets a new form that is powered by jobbing
>loses anyway

Technically untrue; the original film actually came out before the manga depiction of Bardock, it's just that Toriyama liked it so much he added that scene to the manga, then making it canon.

But yeah, I largely agree otherwise.

Baby show on a post-midnight block.

Are you referring to whatever Lazarus is?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Technically untrue; the original film actually came out before the manga depiction of Bardock, it's just that Toriyama liked it so much he added that scene to the manga, then making it canon.

That's what I meant by canonically.
Bardock rebelling is canon to the manga because Toriyama liked the OVA, but all we know from that panel is that Bardock went full "FREEEEEZAAAA!", not that he was close to King Vegeta in power or any other such Padrewank.

But the fact that Bardock may or may not have been above average in strength for a low-class still makes Goku a nobody in the grand scheme.
Comparing him to Naruto, who has a father who is arguably the third strongest Ninja ever (really only just behind Hashirama and Madara) and a mother from a bloodline with a fuckhuge amount of Chakra.
Or Luffy, with the weird D bloodline shit, and his father and grandfather both being easily the top ten most famous people in the entire world.
Or Ichigo, with his Noble Family Shinigami Captain father and his Quincy Mother.

By comparison, Goku is just sorta some alien guy who worked his way into greatness, while the Big 3 were all arguably destined for greatness from their parents alone.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Toriyama fucked Bardock with Minus, and Toyo killed him by making him Proto-Goku. Bardock was just fine as the slightly above average, but stereotypical saiyan. He was a like a what-if Goku before that was a dead horse.

Making him softer and then giving him all this extra side shit is just pointless. What good does it do for the character? How does it serve the series? Aren't we a few decades late for Goku to be learning about his daddy? Does anyone even care about Bardock post Minus?

 

[Judge Holden]

I think the saga flowed almost perfectly. If I wanted to change anything it'd be giving 16 a bigger role, he was absolutely intended for more which was abandoned, I'm sure.

Gonna be real, the late android episodes/early cell episodes are my own personal peak of DBZ though with the caveat that this was not just my first exposure to DBZ but also my first exposure to anime ever as a retarded 8 year old.

Thinking back they hit the horror out the fuckin park with Imperfect Cell's killing spree to the point where I probably should not have been watching as an 8 year old, and even jumping in with less than zero context I was able to very quickly get a handle on the characters and story concepts and such.

Only problem was because I started so late in the runtime my introduction to Goku was him sleeping off a heart attack for what felt like a dozen episodes while everyone hyped him up, Piccolo as being a generally chill and calm green nigga due to having fused with Kami already, and Frieza as a couple of flashbacks and references to half the characters still being traumatised by him. It was only when waiting for the Cell Games that syndication went back to the start so I could figure out what the hell half of what I saw meant, something made more difficult by there also being a bunch of movies scattered in which seriously fucking confused me given how I had no idea they were not canon

What I will also say is that the relatively edgy and srsguiz cell saga and especially the future trunks movie, while being shit I liked and like even to this day, had the inadvertent impact of colouring how untold numbers of literal autists who were introduced at the same time as I saw the franchise, and is collectively the source of the sheer tonnage of edgetard DBZ fanfics both written and drawn that have haunted the fandom through the decades

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

Toriyama fucked Bardock with Minus, and Toyo killed him by making him Proto-Goku. Bardock was just fine as the slightly above average, but stereotypical saiyan. He was a like a what-if Goku before that was a dead horse.

Making him softer and then giving him all this extra side shit is just pointless. What good does it do for the character? How does it serve the series? Aren't we a few decades late for Goku to be learning about his daddy? Does anyone even care about Bardock post Minus?

Bardock was great beacuse he was a window of the saiyan culture and what Goku could have become if he was raised as your average saiyan (kinda like Turles).

Sure Bardock did show some heart caring about his squad and his people, but at the end of the day, he was a ruthless killer that had no issue wiping out civilisations for money. While he was pissed getting a taste of his own medicine, he accepted he and his peoples fate when they finally got whipped out.

 

[MrJokerRager]

This was at the height of people making fun of Yamcha/"The Yamcha Pose". IIRC that terrible baseball episode of Super aired around the same time. It was basically:
View attachment 7444679

Marvel attempting to meme it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Did anybody see that DOGSHIT looking Dragon Ball MOBA?

https://dbg-squadra.bn-ent.net/en-us

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Gonna be real, the late android episodes/early cell episodes are my own personal peak of DBZ though with the caveat that this was not just my first exposure to DBZ but also my first exposure to anime ever as a retarded 8 year old.

Yeah, that's peak in my opinion too. I really like Trunks' introduction too, but the arc really heats up with Cell's introduction.

It was only when waiting for the Cell Games that syndication went back to the start so I could figure out what the hell half of what I saw meant, something made more difficult by there also being a bunch of movies scattered in which seriously fucking confused me given how I had no idea they were not canon

I was trying to figure out how they fit into the canon too, I bet everyone was lol. Some probably could be canon (they're not but fit in the story well), others are just ambiguous enough to confuse you, and others were pretty obviously not canon, which only confused things more.

What I will also say is that the relatively edgy and srsguiz cell saga and especially the future trunks movie, while being shit I liked and like even to this day, had the inadvertent impact of colouring how untold numbers of literal autists who were introduced at the same time as I saw the franchise, and is collectively the source of the sheer tonnage of edgetard DBZ fanfics both written and drawn that have haunted the fandom through the decades

You thought the Trunks movie was shit?! I think it's one of the best. But yeah, there really was a lot of hyper edgy fanfics, and don't forget the AMVs lol

Did anybody see that DOGSHIT looking Dragon Ball MOBA?

https://dbg-squadra.bn-ent.net/en-us

Looks okay for what it is, but it's not a genre I have any interest in. It's a waste of resources, we should be getting other Dragon Ball games instead.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

Spoiler: Toriyama was based

 

[Judge Holden]

You thought the Trunks movie was shit?! I think it's one of the best. But yeah, there really was a lot of hyper edgy fanfics, and don't forget the AMVs lol

Oh no I thought that shit was great....only that it was ground zero for the edgy emo faction within the autistic side of the fandom.

You can draw a direct line from the scene where Trunks first goes supersaiyan to the five trillion fics where Gohan is forced to watch Cell dropkick baby Pan into a blender after having his Cell Jrs run a train on Videl in order to activate Omega Saiyan Red or some shit

 

[Aquinas 2]

You can draw a direct line from the scene where Trunks first goes supersaiyan to the five trillion fics where Gohan is forced to watch Cell dropkick baby Pan into a blender after having his Cell Jrs run a train on Videl in order to activate Omega Saiyan Red or some shit

You read some weird shit, dude

 

[Kari Kamiya]

You can draw a direct line from the scene where Trunks first goes supersaiyan to the five trillion fics where Gohan is forced to watch Cell dropkick baby Pan into a blender after having his Cell Jrs run a train on Videl in order to activate Omega Saiyan Red or some shit

Something tells me that's the tamest you've read of these edgy fics.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Oh no I thought that shit was great....only that it was ground zero for the edgy emo faction within the autistic side of the fandom.

You can draw a direct line from the scene where Trunks first goes supersaiyan to the five trillion fics where Gohan is forced to watch Cell dropkick baby Pan into a blender after having his Cell Jrs run a train on Videl in order to activate Omega Saiyan Red or some shit

I'd read that tbh