The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

[LightDragonman1]

Btw, some TV Tropes users still believe that you can't criticize or judge the game yet until the proper context is given in the game itself.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13229585240A23917400&page=58

"Neither you nor anyone else can have legitimate criticisms of a game's story based solely on leaks because you do not have the proper context for the story/have not seen how the story is executed. Any criticisms anyone has at this stage is flawed by bias which makes them illegitimate criticisms by definition."

"Claiming that you can legitimately criticize a work you know nothing about beyond leaks, which are inherently unreliable since they're taken out of context, is completely different. You're basically claiming that something is objectively bad when you have no clue what the context is or how it's executed.

Let me use myself as an example. When Danganronpa V3 released in Japan and we started getting spoilers I hated the game without even playing it. Yet when I actually played the game and saw everything in context I loved the game. Had I criticized the plot without experiencing it for myself my criticisms would've been completely ignorant because I was biased against it and had no proper context for how the things I hated about what I'd read of the plot played out. Having actually played it though, any criticism I have while still biased comes from having actual context for the plot.

Like yeah you can criticize the plot without playing it but at the same time you have to acknowledge that you don't know the context and that you could be wrong. But to declare that the game is objectively bad instead of something that sounds like it isn't for you and to ignore that it might be good despite not being your cup of tea is silly.

That's why you (General you as it applies to everyone, including myself.) can't have legitimate criticisms of the game's plot when you haven't played it."

 

[Flexo]

100% this. I'd argue that most artsy games have that problem. Bioshock Infinite, Spec Ops, Braid, walking simulators. They all take the barest, most surface level of something clever, and then stop. As if that initial idea was enough to carry an entire project.

We can do this right now. How about a game with clear good and evil choices, and at the end it turns out all the good choices actually ended up making you evil, and all the evil choices ended up being good. I know I've basically described Fable and Spec Ops there, but since when has lack of originality stopped art games? Do it with enough earnestness, and we'll rake in those awards.

Let's mix this up. How about a racing game where the goal is to come in last. The game doesn't tell you this until you win the championship and the trophy goes to the loser. Way to subvert expectations! Maybe put out a blog post about how we wanted make the players think about what matters in life, and that the goal was to get players to stop and smell the roses.

Was playing a little bit of the new Tomb Raider and you know what occurred to me should be a game? (we could make it "art" too)

A game with QTEs, BUT your input on them determines the game path. So if you're successful on the QTE, you advance towards the best ending. But if you fail, then you proceed on to the other (probably bad) endings.

It would be like a visual novel without the time to think and weigh your choices.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Btw, some TV Tropes users still believe that you can't criticize or judge the game yet until the proper context is given in the game itself.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13229585240A23917400&page=58

"Neither you nor anyone else can have legitimate criticisms of a game's story based solely on leaks because you do not have the proper context for the story/have not seen how the story is executed. Any criticisms anyone has at this stage is flawed by bias which makes them illegitimate criticisms by definition."

"Claiming that you can legitimately criticize a work you know nothing about beyond leaks, which are inherently unreliable since they're taken out of context, is completely different. You're basically claiming that something is objectively bad when you have no clue what the context is or how it's executed.

Let me use myself as an example. When Danganronpa V3 released in Japan and we started getting spoilers I hated the game without even playing it. Yet when I actually played the game and saw everything in context I loved the game. Had I criticized the plot without experiencing it for myself my criticisms would've been completely ignorant because I was biased against it and had no proper context for how the things I hated about what I'd read of the plot played out. Having actually played it though, any criticism I have while still biased comes from having actual context for the plot.

Like yeah you can criticize the plot without playing it but at the same time you have to acknowledge that you don't know the context and that you could be wrong. But to declare that the game is objectively bad instead of something that sounds like it isn't for you and to ignore that it might be good despite not being your cup of tea is silly.

That's why you (General you as it applies to everyone, including myself.) can't have legitimate criticisms of the game's plot when you haven't played it."

I'm pretty sure the boss fight between Ellie and Abby has plenty of context, along with beating Joel to death with a golf club, along with the cinematic of showing Joel killing Abby's dad. Its all contextual. TvTropes is fucking cancer.

 

[DumbDude42]

Btw, some TV Tropes users still believe that you can't criticize or judge the game yet until the proper context is given in the game itself.

this is such nonsense

the second i heart about the "the emperor is back!" situation in rise of skywalker, i immediately knew it was going to be worthless garbage. didn't need to watch the full movie, didn't even need to look at the other leaks, that bit of information alone was all i needed to know, because it gave away how hopeless and creatively bankrupt the people making the movie were

i guess this game is in a similar situation now

 

[UnclePhil]

So how deep and hot is the trash fire at this point? I'm trying to keep up with this pre-release shit show and keep falling behind. If I'm understanding right, so far we have:

Allegations of horrendous working conditions at Naughty Dog during crunch.
Footage and spoilers leaked, highlighting terrible story decisions.
Beloved characters murdered/you, the player, forced to hunt down and murder them.
Forced to do this as a 'roided manlady lauded for wokeness and fierce bravery, that in leaked footage looks like she was designed to parody troons.
Anita might be involved.
Sony attempts damage control with outsourced and false DMCA claims, making the situation and their company look worse.
"We found a 'hacker.'"
You have to kill pets and it will make their owners cry.
Wait, no, some lying liar bigot was lying about that, you don't have to kill pets.
Except, it's obvious you do have to kill pets and this is more damage control.
Neil et al jerking off all over Twitter about how brave, proud, and right they are.

And I guess I'll add:

Bad guise are LOL Xtian cult probably running off early '00s ExChristian.Net posts. This game is for the edgiest of edgelords and anyone not on board can fuck off and play something good.

 

[Neurotic Loser]

So how deep and hot is the trash fire at this point? I'm trying to keep up with this pre-release shit show and keep falling behind. If I'm understanding right, so far we have:

Allegations of horrendous working conditions at Naughty Dog during crunch.
Footage and spoilers leaked, highlighting terrible story decisions.
Beloved characters murdered/you, the player, forced to hunt down and murder them.
Forced to do this as a 'roided manlady lauded for wokeness and fierce bravery, that in leaked footage looks like she was designed to parody troons.
Anita might be involved.
Sony attempts damage control with outsourced and false DMCA claims, making the situation and their company look worse.
"We found a 'hacker.'"
You have to kill pets and it will make their owners cry.
Wait, no, some lying liar bigot was lying about that, you don't have to kill pets.
Except, it's obvious you do have to kill pets and this is more damage control.
Neil et al jerking off all over Twitter about how brave, proud, and right they are.

And I guess I'll add:

Bad guys are LOL Xtian cult probably running off early '00s ExChristian.Net posts. This game is for the edgiest of edgelords and anyone not on board can fuck off and play something good.

Did they actual name the "hacker"?

 

[UnclePhil]

Did they actual name the "hacker"?

They said the "hacker" was to remain unnamed, and that all you needed to know was that responsible parties had been "caught." Situation controlled, nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Adamska]

Was playing a little bit of the new Tomb Raider and you know what occurred to me should be a game? (we could make it "art" too)

A game with QTEs, BUT your input on them determines the game path. So if you're successful on the QTE, you advance towards the best ending. But if you fail, then you proceed on to the other (probably bad) endings.

It would be like a visual novel without the time to think and weigh your choices.

That was literally my one and only issue with RE4. I actively despise QTEs since they utterly ruin any cut scene you have with them and throughout the game because you have to take part of your focus off on the story. I could not enjoy any real fight with Krauser because I was still on the lookout for them damn things.

They said the "hacker" was to remain unnamed, and that all you needed to know was that responsible parties had been "caught." Situation controlled, nothing to see here, move along.

Which means no they didn't know which of the dozens of employees did it, and this is just extremely desperate damage controls.

 

[TexOffender]

They said the "hacker" was to remain unnamed, and that all you needed to know was that responsible parties had been "caught." Situation controlled, nothing to see here, move along.

They can't identify him since he was wearing a balaclava.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Knowing that Picard was written By Michael Chabon really soured me:the guy is way better than that

Yeah but two words:

Alex Kurtzman.

The man still bitter we didn't enjoy his re-imagining of classic trekian characters... of Spock screaming while beating a man half to death, or Discovery and its uhm... plot. It had one of those, right?

You can hear the show's gears scream as they get slammed by Johnathon Frakes and Mariana Sirtis' appearance. The whole tone of the show changes and gives you a glimpse of what it should've been. A plot in the background rumbling away while Picard sees old friends and allies and we see the more isolationist or even triumphalist Federation post-Dominion War. It really needed that touch of Federation arrogance in the decades since and the loss of one of the Great Powers. Instead it turns into some sort of weird isolationist shit show thats probably some nonsensical hackneyed attempt to comment "on the times" when the whole point of Trek is to make it stand apart and semi timeless.


EDIT: Tho apparently Frakes gets a expanded role in Season 2 and is supposedly tipped to direct. So we might get some ordered rewrites if they try and murder him off.

 

[Adamska]

EDIT: Tho apparently Frakes gets a expanded role in Season 2 and is supposedly tipped to direct. So we might get some ordered rewrites if they try and murder him off.

Haha fuck no this screams desperate lie given that a lot of Kurtzman staffers are still on it and Frakes and the entire TNG cast clearly doesn't give a fuck about integrity.

They fucked up from its inception. People forget that while the first season of TNG was flawed and wasn't as good compared to later episodes that it still had good ones in them. Same with literally every ST except the newest two written by mongos who only watched the movies at a friend's house.

 

[ducktales4gameboy]

Was playing a little bit of the new Tomb Raider and you know what occurred to me should be a game? (we could make it "art" too)

A game with QTEs, BUT your input on them determines the game path. So if you're successful on the QTE, you advance towards the best ending. But if you fail, then you proceed on to the other (probably bad) endings.

It would be like a visual novel without the time to think and weigh your choices.

That's basically the premise of Until Dawn. It's an interactive horror movie with light third-person exploration where like two thirds of the cast can die or survive based on QTEs. It's definitely worth a look if you like Alien-style suspense horror.

 

[Exbein]

curred to me should be a game? (we could make it "art" too)

A game with QTEs, BUT your input on them determines the game path. So if you're successful on the QTE, you advance towards the best ending. But if you fail, then you proceed on to the other (probably bad) endings.

It would be like a visual novel without the time to think and weigh your choices.

Sakura Taisen series of games have something like that. What can you expect from the company that is the father of QTEs Though in their game, its called LIPS system. You get QTE choices and time depending on the situation. For example, choose coming strong on a girl, she'll see you as a creep, choose a meek reply, the girl thinks you're a pushover, if you let time run out without choosing anything, she thinks you're an indecisive faggot.

Resident Evil 3 original kinda does it too, specially with encounters with Nemesis

 

[Titos]

Was playing a little bit of the new Tomb Raider and you know what occurred to me should be a game? (we could make it "art" too)

A game with QTEs, BUT your input on them determines the game path. So if you're successful on the QTE, you advance towards the best ending. But if you fail, then you proceed on to the other (probably bad) endings.

It would be like a visual novel without the time to think and weigh your choices.

Isn't that just Detroit: Become Human? I don't think you could really get a game over in that game.

They can't identify him since he was wearing a balaclava.

I hear they tried using voice recognition too but couldn't hear him over the blaring hardbass.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

MGS3 did that first.

Actually come to think of it, I think this scene does what Druckmann's trying to do only so much better. MGS3 keeps track of everyone you ever killed throughout the game, and the game remembers how you killed them. For example, if you blow someone up, they'll comment about their flesh burning. The fight with the Sorrow and its difficulty is entirely dependent on how many people you've killed so far. The game never makes you try to feel bad or get you to feel guilty, but seeing the number of people you've killed so far does provoke an emotional reaction, like holy shit I've killed a lot of people. It's actually a lot more natural because it's dependent on your choices, and the game's showing you how those choices ended other people's lives.

That makes me think about another aspect of this game’s understanding of the necessity of violence in relation to MGS. Did anyone else near-unilaterally use chokeholds and the tranq gun in their first runs of the MGS games that gave you that option? Notice how you’re given that option, that they almost always comment on it, and that it’s much more of a time or ammo constraint? The mere presence of a less bad option will compel a lot of people to do it. That or Bioshock Infinite’s metanarrative about how facile choice is by virtue of how this medium works are far more interesting than just another “Herr Durr Revenge Is A Vicious Cycle” story that is older than fucking Sophocles at this point.

 

[Flexo]

That's basically the premise of Until Dawn. It's an interactive horror movie with light third-person exploration where like two thirds of the cast can die or survive based on QTEs. It's definitely worth a look if you like Alien-style suspense horror.

Isn't that just Detroit: Become Human? I don't think you could really get a game over in that game.

Hmmm.... it's been my understanding in them that the QTE was almost the entire gameplay. I was thinking of something where you would still have other gameplay mechanics, and the QTEs would be like chapter breaks.

Oh! Also in relation to dogs? Mark of the Ninja (stealth kill game) only lets you knock out dogs with a stealth attack. You've got to go out of your way to try and kill them with your tools.

So TLOU2 is more psychotic than a game about a killer going psychotic from drugs.

 

[Judge Dredd]

So how deep and hot is the trash fire at this point? I'm trying to keep up with this pre-release shit show and keep falling behind. If I'm understanding right, so far we have:

Allegations of horrendous working conditions at Naughty Dog during crunch.
Footage and spoilers leaked, highlighting terrible story decisions.
Beloved characters murdered/you, the player, forced to hunt down and murder them.
Forced to do this as a 'roided manlady lauded for wokeness and fierce bravery, that in leaked footage looks like she was designed to parody troons.
Anita might be involved.
Sony attempts damage control with outsourced and false DMCA claims, making the situation and their company look worse.
"We found a 'hacker.'"
You have to kill pets and it will make their owners cry.
Wait, no, some lying liar bigot was lying about that, you don't have to kill pets.
Except, it's obvious you do have to kill pets and this is more damage control.
Neil et al jerking off all over Twitter about how brave, proud, and right they are.

And I guess I'll add:

Bad guise are LOL Xtian cult probably running off early '00s ExChristian.Net posts. This game is for the edgiest of edgelords and anyone not on board can fuck off and play something good.

That's basically everything. Some minor things I'll mention just in case you missed them.

Abby (the roided manlady) is a Mary Sue where characters comment on how good she is at everything.
The post apocalyptic settlement has a fully equipped 21st century gym untouched by the apocalypse.
ND spent a million dollars building a fake church just to show the trailer.
Accusations that staff had to watch videos of real life violence to get the animations as realistic as possible.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

One example of a game making me feel uncomfortable is when I play GTA5 like I normally play GTA5, but in first person. It's actually a lot harder to distance yourself from hitting granny because you didn't want to stop at a red light when you see her roll into your windshield from the driver's seat.

 

[UnclePhil]

Which means no they didn't know which of the dozens of employees did it, and this is just extremely desperate damage controls.

"It was a hacker!" also deflects blame and tries to squash debate over why a massive leak would happen in the first place.

 

[Titos]

One thing that never made sense to me about TLOUs world is why every other human seems to be ready to blow eachothers heads off. It's not like The Road where the ecology is fucked, hell there's trees and animals all over the place and the zombies seem to mainly stay inside buildings. Why exactly wouldn't people just revert to a more agrarian society instead of trying to rob and kill every other person they see? Especially since the zombies seemingly die/turn to mushrooms after a while. I haven't played the first one since like 2015 so I might be misremembering stuff but that never made sense to me.