The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

[Rei is shit]

Given that oil refineries and similar run on "just in time" delivery, the moment mushroom zombie plague hits, everyone's going to be panic-buying fuel. As a student I spent a summer working on a petrol station and when the rumour was that the price was to hit £1.00/l next week, everyone panic-bought us dry. As in, they filled up, then filled up multiple jerry cans each, until we ran out and had to cone the place off.

In fact, I would expect to see fuel reserves dry up within days of the initial outbreak.

Also, where are they getting that fuel from? Operating an oil well is quite a specialised job. It's not something any twat can do. If it's biodiesel, then every square yard being grown for biomass to distill into biodiesel is not being grown for food and we already established that food should be at a premium in mushroom zombie world because it of necessity involves growing or killing stuff to eat, and that in turn means being out of doors and out of shouting distance from anyone else should infected or marauders attack.

Solar panels are right out by the way. The rare earth metals needed in photovoltaic cells are something you can only obtain with a modern industrial society. They're deep in the ground and rare and require pretty advanced chemistry to extract and lots of energy.

They could easily explain that with 5 mins of world buidling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas

 

[Richard29]

But i have to say that.. as much as you dont like this game. Its still Neil's game and story. So if he wants it this way, then its his way. Only thing i am disappointed in, is how he treated Naughty Dogs members is all

 

[PrincessHomura]

I think Neil lost on the whole "Treating Naughty Dog members like shit... atleast i dont think he can get away from that"

But the actual game he legit won on. Its like a anime, you think you win, then the opponent wins and you aknowledge its strength

I mean think of it. If people never leaked this game at all, then he may have looked worse, because people telling how this game would tank (including me).. exact opposite. So on that, he won on actually. So in actuality, the leaks helped this game more, reputation points i mean

Gotta give cred to that

You keep posting in the thread but you don't seem to have actually read it. Nobody said this game was going to flop, everyone was saying it's in fact impossible for it to flop on a large scale because it's a sequel to a 20-million seller.

The big question is, given the pedigree of its predecessor and the gigantic budget it had, what exactly is the threshhold it needs to cover for Sony to be happy with it? The vast majority of big companies always want bigger sales than the previous title, and there is no way that is going to happen here.

The ramifications of the extreme disdain and backlash this game has received won't be clear for years to come. It does seem like The Last of Us is dead for the future after how hated this game has become and it's a big question mark what the future of even Naughty Dog will be going forward.

The game selling 4 million copies its first weekend was never in doubt or disputed by anyone. We all knew this game would have very high sales, especially in the beginning, and the narrative that this leak somehow helped the game is completely incomprehensible. You can't just say something like that without explaining how you imagine this leak helped the game in any way, because all it did was start a massive meme-train and have people desperately hoping the leaks weren't true.

As for the success or failure of the game, that's not something we can know right now because that all depends on how much money went into it and how much money was expected to come back to them. We know it had an insanely high budget and that expectations were high. We can also suspect that it won't have anywhere near the legs (long-term sales) as the first game did, though this remains to be seen. Sony's expectations versus the actual sales is all that will matter for the people who developed this game, and while 4 million is a very large number for any game, it's guaranteed to be much below what Sony want to see from it.

Much as was seen with the Star Wars films and Mass Effect 3/Andromeda, you can't judge a failure in a franchise like this which has reached "too big to fail status" on the bad entry itself. It all comes down to what'll happen with the next entry, that's where people will be nope'ing out if they hated the last one. It'll be interesting to see where it ends up and what happens to Naughty Dog in the next few years.

 

[Jan_Hus]

It might be his story but he’s a poor writer with an amateur’s understanding of what makes compelling dark or depressing fiction.

 

[Hangula Hungui]

You keep posting in the thread but you don't seem to have actually read it. Nobody said this game was going to flop, everyone was saying it's in fact impossible for it to flop on a large scale because it's a sequel to a 20-million seller.

The big question is, given the pedigree of its predecessor and the gigantic budget it had, what exactly is the threshhold it needs to cover for Sony to be happy with it? The vast majority of big companies always want bigger sales than the previous title, and there is no way that is going to happen here.

The ramifications of the extreme disdain and backlash this game has received won't be clear for years to come. It does seem like The Last of Us is dead for the future after how hated this game has become and it's a big question mark what the future of even Naughty Dog will be going forward.

The game selling 4 million copies its first weekend was never in doubt or disputed by anyone. We all knew this game would have very high sales, especially in the beginning, and the narrative that this leak somehow helped the game is completely incomprehensible. You can't just say something like that without explaining how you imagine this leak helped the game in any way, because all it did was start a massive meme-train and have people desperately hoping the leaks weren't true.

As for the success or failure of the game, that's not something we can know right now because that all depends on how much money went into it and how much money was expected to come back to them. We know it had an insanely high budget and that expectations were high. We can also suspect that it won't have anywhere near the legs (long-term sales) as the first game did, though this remains to be seen. Sony's expectations versus the actual sales is all that will matter for the people who developed this game, and while 4 million is a very large number for any game, it's guaranteed to be much below what Sony want to see from it.

Much as was seen with the Star Wars films and Mass Effect 3/Andromeda, you can't judge a failure in a franchise like this which has reached "too big to fail status" on the bad entry itself. It all comes down to what'll happen with the next entry, that's where people will be nope'ing out if they hated the last one. It'll be interesting to see where it ends up and what happens to Naughty Dog in the next few years.

I absolutely agree, the real „damage“ can only be seen in the long run, since most first party devs hardly ever publicly share how much money was pumped into the project.
Comparing it to MGS5 for example which had a budget of 80 million and over six million copies sold still being considered a loss would be somewhat realistic.
Kojima fucked around a lot, opened up a second studio in America, hired expensive actors for voice work, licensing and royalties etc.
TLOU2 had an unusual long development time for a singleplayer adventure game. The relatively good graphics aren’t just magic but based on talented employees and lots of crunch time (Jason Schreiers article being an indicator for this). Adding the mo cap performance, vo and all the other things around it could easily put the budget over 100 million. Hell, this self insert „Easter Egg“ card featuring Dr Cuckman could also be interpreted as Sony being uneasy about Neil needing this much money.
If we put Covid in the mix, which isn’t Neils fault, another million or two to let employees work from home with improvised set ups is also realistic.

Just like with movies, most tickets/copies are sold in the first weekend, another good junk during the second. So, we‘re currently at 4 million copies , maybe another million by the end of year due to Christmas. But we‘ll also get a new PlayStation system by the end of the year. With the costs being estimated around 400-500 bucks, i doubt many people would buy a six month old game and play it on the new system, at least not a majority of it.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Just like with movies, most tickets/copies are sold in the first weekend, another good junk during the second. So, we‘re currently at 4 million copies , maybe another million by the end of year due to Christmas. But we‘ll also get a new PlayStation system by the end of the year. With the costs being estimated around 400-500 bucks, i doubt many people would buy a six month old game and play it on the new system, at least not a majority of it.

There's going to be promoting PS5's backwards compatibility, I imagine all first party titles are going to be front and center for it.

 

[Adamska]

But i have to say that.. as much as you dont like this game. Its still Neil's game and story. So if he wants it this way, then its his way. Only thing i am disappointed in, is how he treated Naughty Dogs members is all

His story my ass; he had other people work with him on the first one, including a dude (who was basically co-starring as the writer and director) who left right around when he had full control: 2017. Just like how he had to whine and cry until he could kick out a woman to steal her work and make it his own.

He just whined and cried until he had full control over stuff that was never fully his.

 

[jje100010001]

The best way to do it. They have material to spare, they just need to keep the setting in mind. Do you want to go into the 20-odd years between the start of the outbreak and TLOU? How about what happens in other places like a cop in Alaska or a charity worker helping a little Mexican shantytown near the border? Places outside the US like Hong Kong, Prague, Russia, what have you? Maybe you're a member of a PMC working security for a laboratory that knows way more about the origin of the outbreak than anyone let's on? All of this off the top of my head.

IMO, the problem is that the setting isn’t really all that compelling or different from the plethora of other zombie media out there, and would primarily have to rely on strong characterization and story writing, which they destroyed in TLOU2.

It would sort of turn into a Resident Evil expanded universe, where you have a cast of characters whose common thread is their dealing with a zombie threat.

TLOU’s universe also runs into the problem that TWD encounters, in that it has a time limit where the stories afterwards end up mostly being about human conflict. Now, as mentioned before, it could be sort of interesting in seeing the radical ways society rearranges itself afterwards, but that would again rely on good writing and world-building.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The way they should have probably done it would have been to have the fungus further integrate into the corpses and they regain somewhat of a sentience. Since it's a parasite it starts to replace the host's internal functions and other systems eventually come back online partially. Sort of like Deadpsace's necromorphs.

That way you get a variety of enemies and possible reformed enemy NPCs to make it interesting.

 

[Hangula Hungui]

There's going to be promoting PS5's backwards compatibility, I imagine all first party titles are going to be front and center for it.

But how many units do you think this will move? Another million? Two?

 

[Dang Woodchucks!]

IMO, the problem is that the setting isn’t really all that compelling or different from the plethora of other zombie media out there, and would primarily have to rely on strong characterization and story writing, which they destroyed in TLOU2.

It would sort of turn into a Resident Evil expanded universe, where you have a cast of characters whose common thread is their dealing with a zombie threat.

TLOU’s universe also runs into the problem that TWD encounters, in that it has a time limit where the stories afterwards end up mostly being about human conflict. Now, as mentioned before, it could be sort of interesting in seeing the radical ways society rearranges itself afterwards, but that would again rely on good writing and world-building.

While I see your point in that zombies lose their zest once you get used to them, you lost me comparing this with RE. The thing with RE is that they went the outlandish and campy route. Mister X worked, so they brought Nemesis/The Pursuer. That worked, so they made Wesker the Terminator. That worked (sort of) so then they made the plagas, and so on, and for each boss came more outlandish and nonsensical mutations, and eventually we got boulder punching and COMPLETE GLOBUHL SATU-RAY-SHUNNN!!!

I would curb all that shit and try to keep it as grounded in reality as it possibly could be to have humans and other vertebrates infected by parasite shrooms. That means no "speshul" infected, because that kind of thing isn't real. There can be hints of a hive mind, and of higher brain patterns, but there is no reaching out to infected as a society; the one thing these fungi have in common is that once it blows up the host is gone.

ETA: I have nothing against RE and I know it's not supposed to be hard science or anything like that, and a lot of those nonsensical stuff is pretty cool. I'm just comparing it to the first TLOU game in particular and a hypothetical more grounded approach that could have been. It's obvious someone did some research and it's obvious that Uck-ma'am was not the one that did it.

 

[Hangula Hungui]

Twitter | archive
seems like Japan isn’t having any of it, loads of used copies popped up

 

[Lurk Jurk]

"Love and respect =/= pander"
Ah, yes of course. That's why you used a Methodist church as a synagogue to discuss the severity the Jews felt in the Holocaust, or how you used a FtM trans person to discuss the moral ambiguity of killing parental figures because of your identity maybe not allowing you to be a soldier and definitely needing you to be bride. Out of love and respect.

In a post apocalyptic zombie game - yea, fuck off Neil. Love and respect my ass...yeah you sure loved and respected the hell outta Joel, man. ...Y'had that love and respect painted all over the walls, every last bit of it, I see. Yeah, you can especially see that in those bits over there, on the ground over here, on that 9-iron...

But the representation! The progressive representation of a straight couple coming and murdering a lesbian's parent right after she has gay sex, and then the story punishing her for seeking revenge by taking everything important to her away!

 

[Gamepad]

seems like Japan isn’t having any of it, loads of used copies popped up

"Must be Xbox fans that are jealous"

That is such a weird statement to make about Japan, specifically.

There's a reason why this is a meme.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I'm just saying that if a pallet of unopned new Ellie Editions were gifted to my office and my Boss said that we could all just take one, I probably wouldn't turn it down.

I mean it's a free tiny backpack.

 

[Borax Bozo]

IMO, the problem is that the setting isn’t really all that compelling or different from the plethora of other zombie media out there, and would primarily have to rely on strong characterization and story writing, which they destroyed in TLOU2.

It would sort of turn into a Resident Evil expanded universe, where you have a cast of characters whose common thread is their dealing with a zombie threat.

TLOU’s universe also runs into the problem that TWD encounters, in that it has a time limit where the stories afterwards end up mostly being about human conflict. Now, as mentioned before, it could be sort of interesting in seeing the radical ways society rearranges itself afterwards, but that would again rely on good writing and world-building.

Does TLOU media ever talk about what is happening in other continents? The obvious question is "what about Australia and NZ?". Island countries would be faring better, you would think...

 

[Dysnomia]

Does TLOU media ever talk about what is happening in other continents? The obvious question is "what about Australia and NZ?". Island countries would be faring better, you would think...

That could be interesting. In the Huxley novel Ape and Essence, New Zealand is mutant free and doing pretty well. The research team came from there and was immediately besieged by mutated American survivors,

They could have done a number of things in another country instead. I think instead of a direct sequel they should have started with new characters elsewhere.

 

[Mao Hao Hao]

I would curb all that shit and try to keep it as grounded in reality as it possibly could be to have humans and other vertebrates infected by parasite shrooms. That means no "speshul" infected, because that kind of thing isn't real. There can be hints of a hive mind, and of higher brain patterns, but there is no reaching out to infected as a society; the one thing these fungi have in common is that once it blows up the host is gone.
ETA: I have nothing against RE and I know it's not supposed to be hard science or anything like that, and a lot of those nonsensical stuff is pretty cool. I'm just comparing it to the first TLOU game in particular and a hypothetical more grounded approach that could have been. It's obvious someone did some research and it's obvious that Uck-ma'am was not the one that did it.

There's actually a pretty good novel that came out earlier this year called Cold Storage, which involves a similar concept, but done with far better research and more realistic events as to what would actually happen.

Spoiler: Spoilers for novel

A mutated species of fungus being used for space research on a station ends up getting out on Earth after the station malfunctions and crashes. It kills an entire town, but is contained and sealed, then forgotten about. Fast forward and it is beginning to escape the aged containment facility, which is now underneath a generic storage warehouse. When it infects people, it multiplies rapidly, but actively uses them as a means to get more hosts by hijaking their mind and forcing them to do things. It can also infect the dead, such as a roadkill deer, and can explode into millions of spores if desperate enough. It does not succeed in the end and is destroyed in an explosion, which would be the most likely outcome for a fungus based disease/pathogen, as fungi are not the most effective at spreading quickly (mostly due to being visible and requiring a lot of contact to infect when not in floating spore form).

Concerning Resident Evil, number 7 had a fungal pathogen that managed to be infinitely more realistic and terrifying than TLOUS 2.

 

[Borax Bozo]

That could be interesting. In the Huxley novel Ape and Essence, New Zealand is mutant free and doing pretty well. The research team came from there and was immediately besieged by mutated American survivors,

They could have done a number of things in another country instead. I think instead of a direct sequel they should have started with new characters elsewhere.

Though I'm still playing through and yet to finish it, one email log you can get in Death Stranding explicitly raises the point "we have no idea what's happened in other countries". Global apocalypse stories have a lot of potential for repeating the same overall disaster in a sequel but to another distinct population with distinct conditions, leading to different stories. I'm struggling to think of where that approach has actually been used though. (Did the Walking Dead do it for their side show? Not sure, didn't watch it, just heard about it...)

Concerning Resident Evil, number 7 had a fungal pathogen that managed to be infitately more realistic and terrifying than TLOUS 2.

RE7 and Revelations 2's most horrifying concept that personalities can be spread via infection and effectively become their own entity each time is probably one of the better sci-fi concepts they've introduced, and I especially love that they are not a hive mind and will actually fight each other.

 

[Marco Fucko]

I know this has probably been hammered to death at this point but I keep watching this guy's LP and the writing and story structure is just atrocious. Does anybody know if Druckmann is a scion that got paid into the industry like his apparent hero David Benioff? Or is he just some emotionally stunted retard that can't think past "hurr morality is subjective"?