Joss Whedon accused of being Joss Whedon - Cyborg actor accuses him of “gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable” behavior on the set of JUSTice League and accuses a couple of higher-ups of covering for him

[Son of Sparda 84]

One of the producers implied that it was actually Fisher the one being difficult, guy got upset and didn't want to say "Booyaa", which is probably the only thing people remember Cyborg for. I can believe that, Fisher is the one nobody cares about, right at the bottom with Falcon and with the BLM nonsense plus the Snyder cut, he probably felt he could get some good guy survivahhh points. Guy wasn't in anything and his career was done the moment Justice League got it's first trailer.

Whedon is gross and most likely a perv but this was a pathetic move by Fisher, have balls to be specific at least. Still, Whedon's sense of humor invading all of entertainment is his biggest crime.

Geoff Johns is one of the higher-ups who "covered Whedon" and some random girl took the ball and accused him for flirting with her at age 17. Her only evidence is one emoticon Johns apparently sent her, one emoticon, when called out the tweet was deleted and her reason was because she wanted to be nice. This shit never ends.

I feel like that statement Ray not wanting to say Booyah is BS

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I feel bad for Fisher. Imagine you get to play Cyborg in a big budget Justice League film and you're the very first live action film version of the character and the film is a bigger mess behind the scenes than Valley of the Dolls or The Shining.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here, but in a recent podcast, Kevin Smith (I know, I know) said that he knows people involved with the production who claim that Whedon was very vocal on set about how much he disliked Snyder’s version and how horrible he thought it was, which can’t make for the best work environment, especially when working with people who had worked on the earlier version. And no matter how shitty that cut may or may not be, it comes off pretty gross condemning Snyder so virulently to people he knows so soon after the death of his daughter.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned here, but in a recent podcast, Kevin Smith (I know, I know) said that he knows people involved with the production who claim that Whedon was very vocal on set about how much he disliked Snyder’s version and how horrible he thought it was, which can’t make for the best work environment, especially when working with people who had worked on the earlier version. And no matter how shitty that cut may or may not be, it comes off pretty gross condemning Snyder so virulently to people he knows so soon after the death of his daughter.

Hey you gonna argue with Based Joss's vision? Think of all the QUIPS we would have missed out without him!

 

[Saint Alphonsus]

Remember, boys and girls--

Male feminist = Hi, I'm A Malignant Narcissist Sex Pervert

Back to the show.

 

[Muttnik]

The quips only ever worked on Buffy. The high school girl thing suited it. Everything after that was incredibly obnoxious with how jokey it is. I liked Cabin in the Woods and I didn't mind the first Avengers. But they both had a problem moving between drama and comedy, the latter more than the former. It's one of Whedon's biggest problems as a writer, especially when he isn't working with a writing team to tell him when to lay off on the scene-breaking dialogue.

The problem is that Whedon hasn't really changed much as a writer other than getting increasingly more politically insufferable. And the thing I hate most about him is that, when he tries, he's really good at writing drama. But it's so rare and so infrequent that you almost never notice it.

The Body is so deathly fucked up and he wrote it himself based on the death of his mother. Whedon is an asshole, a creep, and at times an annoying hack but he created an incredibly disturbing hour of television when he actually dug down and wrote from the heart.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Out of curiosity I decided to look up if he was attached to any new projects. He has a upcoming show on HBO called The Nevers. Can you guess what it's about? No, it's not about a group of bad ass women with special powers.

Just kidding, that's exactly what it is.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Out of curiosity I decided to look up if he was attached to any new projects. He has a upcoming show on HBO called The Nevers. Can you guess what it's about? No, it's not about a group of bad ass women with special powers.

Just kidding, that's exactly what it is.

C'mooon feet and one-liners. Unlikely, I know, but boy oh boy would that be a neat concept!

Hey, wouldn't it be cool if some of them knew like, kung-fu or something?! Crazy, right?

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Firefly was pretty good tho.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Still, Whedon's sense of humor invading all of entertainment is his biggest crime.

Snark is great in small quantities, but kinda like "geek culture" in general and superhero movies in general, there's just too much of it now. Not every fictional character needs to talk like Chandler Bing.

Sincerity would be good for a change. That's one of the things I liked about the Nolan Batman movies.

 

[Glad I couldn't help]

Does this count with Firefly, too?

I've always felt like people were more in love with the idea of Firefly than the show itself. That's why it has been able to live so long afterwards.

 

[BrunoMattei]

The quips only ever worked on Buffy. The high school girl thing suited it. Everything after that was incredibly obnoxious with how jokey it is. I liked Cabin in the Woods and I didn't mind the first Avengers. But they both had a problem moving between drama and comedy, the latter more than the former. It's one of Whedon's biggest problems as a writer, especially when he isn't working with a writing team to tell him when to lay off on the scene-breaking dialogue.

The problem is that Whedon hasn't really changed much as a writer other than getting increasingly more politically insufferable. And the thing I hate most about him is that, when he tries, he's really good at writing drama. But it's so rare and so infrequent that you almost never notice it.

The Body is so deathly fucked up and he wrote it himself based on the death of his mother. Whedon is an asshole, a creep, and at times an annoying hack but he created an incredibly disturbing hour of television when he actually dug down and wrote from the heart.

I think it works with RDJ too. But I think a decent number of his quips were improv and he's just amazing of thinking on his feet. It never worked with other characters.

 

[Lucille Bluth]

Joss is right next to Wil Wheaton, Stephen Colbert, and Jon Scalzi in my top tier "obnoxiously woke speds who will get outed as sickfucks" league, so hopefully this story snowballs into something to be used to have him lynched by the mob

A while back I read some now deleted twitter thread about speculation/allegations on Stephen being a pedo. I can believe that. There was always something off about him.

Not fucking surprised. Come thru Charisma Carpenter

Didn't he fire Charisma because she got pregnant? IIRC, she found out last minute/abruptly.

His wife "exposed" him a few years back. I'm sure he'll be "fine" though. Ezra beat that woman and still seems to have a job.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Firefly was pretty good tho.

In retrospect, that may have been thanks to Tim Minear rather than Whedon.

 

[One Man Bland]

In retrospect, that may have been thanks to Tim Minear rather than Whedon.

That and if I’m remembering the behind the scenes stuff correctly a lot of it was also tv execs vetoing some of Whedon’s especially retarded ideas for it.

 

[Next Task]

I think Whedon's style of dialogue often works for him, but the problem becomes like when any one person's style becomes popular and hordes of people with less talent imitate it. He gets tainted by association with all of them, and 'his voice' stops being fun and new.

Add in his unwillingness and/or inability to change, and he's now stale. It's also very hard to watch something that inspired a raft of imitators and appreciate what it was doing at the time. It doesn't seem special when you've seen the effects something had on pop culture before you see the original product; I know I've had difficulty enjoying some classic movies not because they're actually bad, but because they've so affected stuff that came after that they don't seem as good.

When a line of dialogue has become a cultural meme, seeing it in its original context makes it much more underwhelming.

I don't agree that people either have talent or they don't - people tend to downplay the contributions and former work of artists they don't like anymore, instead of accepting that talent doesn't mean a consistent quality of long-term output. I think Joss Whedon has a lot of talent, but also things like becoming mega-successful, getting crazed devotees as fans, and becoming increasingly SJW have had an effect. I'd also say that having so many of those fans turn on him with the same intensity that they once adored him likely also has impacted his work, because he has this air of trying to prove he's still 'the good guy' to a bunch of people who now despise him, and he can't accept that there's nothing he can do to appease them. Also, he may be stagnating in a cultural climate that now wants something different than what he produces.

Tl;dr: Whedon has talent, it just might not be adaptable to what his audience wants now. Doesn't take away from what he's done, but does suggest that maybe each new project will be worse than the last, as his fanbase was of the rabid crazy type that will hate you as much as they used to love you.

 

[Muttnik]

Whedon also has a talent in writing rivalries/love-hate relationships. I'll give him that too. He knows how to make two characters banter off each other and make it appealing. You see this with Buffy and Spike, Cap and Tony, Dr. Horrible and Captain Hammer, etc. He knows how to make dynamic rivalries both funny an entertaining. And the snark works in that context because it's two people trading verbal blows with each other.

It's a double edged sword though because Whedon has a really hard time being sweet. As in, I don't think he knows how to do it without outside interference. Every instance of any wholesome moments with his characters seems to come from outside writing. And it's likely because Whedon himself is a bitter, cynical dick who can't get along with anyone as an equal and enjoys talking down to people.

 

[Dom Cruise]

his cheating couldn't have been consensual because he's all famous or whatever.

This is one of the narratives feminists have been pushing that if someone famous fucks a no name it's instantly rape because of the "power imbalance" even if the no name consented.

It's sleazy behavior to use fame to manipulate women into sleeping with you, but if they still consent, they consent and it's not literal rape, there's a difference between sleazy and full on sexual assault.

There will come a time in which feminists will put the forth the idea that if a guy ever gets pussy for any reason, no matter how consensual, it's rape.

I'm curious if he was the one who shot the scene of Batman, Flash, and Wonder Woman holding onto the Knightcrawler where you basically get an upskirt shot of Diana.

Pics or it didn't happen.

That was mostly Drew Goddard, though he did write the screenplay with Whedon, Goddard was the director.

I'm aware he was not the director or the sole screenwriter, but he still had a hand in it.

The quips only ever worked on Buffy. The high school girl thing suited it. Everything after that was incredibly obnoxious with how jokey it is. I liked Cabin in the Woods and I didn't mind the first Avengers. But they both had a problem moving between drama and comedy, the latter more than the former. It's one of Whedon's biggest problems as a writer, especially when he isn't working with a writing team to tell him when to lay off on the scene-breaking dialogue.

The problem is that Whedon hasn't really changed much as a writer other than getting increasingly more politically insufferable. And the thing I hate most about him is that, when he tries, he's really good at writing drama. But it's so rare and so infrequent that you almost never notice it.

The Body is so deathly fucked up and he wrote it himself based on the death of his mother. Whedon is an asshole, a creep, and at times an annoying hack but he created an incredibly disturbing hour of television when he actually dug down and wrote from the heart.

You can't say the guy is 100% untalented, he has some actual talent, that's just a fact.

Firefly was pretty good tho.

Been meaning to watch that, I have the DVDs.

Snark is great in small quantities, but kinda like "geek culture" in general and superhero movies in general, there's just too much of it now. Not every fictional character needs to talk like Chandler Bing.

Sincerity would be good for a change. That's one of the things I liked about the Nolan Batman movies.

We are in desperate need of more sincerity but people have been trained to laugh at and hate anything that tries to take itself seriously.

I've thought about this a lot and I think the tone for the future of pop culture should be going all in on the ridiculousness, to where it's ok to laugh at it, but never actually wink at the camera, let the ridiculousness speak for itself.

Basically think along the lines of Commando, everything needs to adopt the tone of Commando.

 

[One Man Bland]

I think Whedon's style of dialogue often works for him, but the problem becomes like when any one person's style becomes popular and hordes of people with less talent imitate it. He gets tainted by association with all of them, and 'his voice' stops being fun and new.

Add in his unwillingness and/or inability to change, and he's now stale. It's also very hard to watch something that inspired a raft of imitators and appreciate what it was doing at the time. It doesn't seem special when you've seen the effects something had on pop culture before you see the original product; I know I've had difficulty enjoying some classic movies not because they're actually bad, but because they've so affected stuff that came after that they don't seem as good.

When a line of dialogue has become a cultural meme, seeing it in its original context makes it much more underwhelming.

I don't agree that people either have talent or they don't - people tend to downplay the contributions and former work of artists they don't like anymore, instead of accepting that talent doesn't mean a consistent quality of long-term output. I think Joss Whedon has a lot of talent, but also things like becoming mega-successful, getting crazed devotees as fans, and becoming increasingly SJW have had an effect. I'd also say that having so many of those fans turn on him with the same intensity that they once adored him likely also has impacted his work, because he has this air of trying to prove he's still 'the good guy' to a bunch of people who now despise him, and he can't accept that there's nothing he can do to appease them. Also, he may be stagnating in a cultural climate that now wants something different than what he produces.

Tl;dr: Whedon has talent, it just might not be adaptable to what his audience wants now. Doesn't take away from what he's done, but does suggest that maybe each new project will be worse than the last, as his fanbase was of the rabid crazy type that will hate you as much as they used to love you.

To add to this, one of the biggest contributors to declines in writing quality with people like Whedon is their inability to step away from their work and self edit.

A lot of people, even those in the industry, tend to forget that making a film or a show is a massive collaborative effort where input on the final product is coming from several sources. So when people like Whefon first start out, there’s usually people who will tell him when they think a line or a plot development is dumb without repercussion. But then as Whedon became a bigger name he got more creative control, more credit for what’s really a team effort, more yes men to surround himself with, and with both of those the power to tell once trusted editors to shove it.

When the only thing that’s left to filter out all the shitty ideas is your own wits and ability to self-reflect, it’s no wonder writers like Whedon who suffer from unchecked egos end up experiencing a dip in quality later in their careers, or in this case overstep their bounds.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I've always felt like people were more in love with the idea of Firefly than the show itself. That's why it has been able to live so long afterwards.

Firefly is the James Dean of TV shows: it died when it was still young and beautiful, so it became frozen in time to the minds of the public, who now did not have to live through the otherwise inevitable decay of age, drugs, and AIDS. It was a pretty good watch overall (Heart of Gold is the only really bad episode, and IIRC that one never aired) but so was the first season of Nu Who- first seasons are where authors have to color inside the lines, stay within budgets, and otherwise keep their shit together instead of writing self-indulgent trash and getting away with it. Whedon, like the vast majority of creatives, needs people with the power to tell him "no" in order to stay on track.