Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Dave.]

Cool but did you do have sex with her in your dream? And on that note, was your dream a wet dream?

I thought fucking pigs was beastiality.

 

[One Man Bland]

You mean Felix Colgrave? The guy who's worked on animation for Off the Air for Adult Swim?
https://www.youtube.com/c/FelixColgrave/ I mean, it's definitely much more experimental and technically impressive, I'll give you that, but it still feels like you're comparing apples to oranges here. Colgrave thrives on creating weird visually enticing animation with basically no plot which is cool, it can - and has - even worked for television bumpers, but it wouldn't really work as an actual adult animated show. Maybe a variety show that thrives on showcasing weird stories and visual/audio experiences, but not as an actual full-fledged serialized show where a shitload more stuff needs to be accounted for (storyboards, pacing, scripts, voice-acting, character interactions, a defined setting etc.).

Cartoons like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, and Hazbin Hotel aren't trying to be that: they're trying to create a functional well-defined world, complex character motivations, stories that work within the realm of those worlds, and collaborating with hundreds of people in order to get their shows on television. Hazbin doesn't have that luxury the other two had of being able to work on it in-house; its team is much smaller, it doesn't have access to overseas animators so it all has to be done by hand from actual independent creators, and the entirety of both projects was paid for through Patreon. Helluva Boss is never going to be anything more than a webseries so whatever; Hazbin Hotel was just a pilot, where everything about it is subject to change, especially after getting picked up by A24, as they try and find ways to allieviate the pilot production issues so the show can be made faster. It'd be like judging...say, the Powerpuff Girls' pilot for taking 3 years to make for a then-fledgling Cartoon Network, and then comparing it to the then-still being worked on The Thief and the Cobbler.

And even with the above examples, it still takes them nearly a full year to make a season's worth of episodes. It isn't technically impressive for its development time, but you're kinda missing the forest for the trees here.

Keep in mind you’re talking to the same guy who outsourced his Vivz complaints to 4chan a couple pages back, and even then couldn’t be bothered to fact check before picking some /co/fag trying to claim that a show produced by a multi-billion dollar international toy company and another show studio funded by billion dollar conglomerates were "indie." Evidentially Pyle’s definition of what should count as indie isn’t "independently funded" or the less used but more specific "independent from Hollywood production/Hollywood influence" but whatever definition he thinks will specifically exclude Vivz.

There isn't if you're a boarded show, or if you REALLY want to make it a pain in the ass for people overseas (or even fans) to draw. The shows can feel stilted, but doing something like a Felix Colgrave for Hazbin or Helluva feels like you want this show to be something it's not. Which again is fine, but you should also recognize that's up to your own personal tastes rather than the show and Vivzie being terrible, and picking that particular hill to die on.

Also if SU’s intent was to not as look as stiff and lifeless as adult animation like Family Guy, then in my opinion it kinda failed on that front. The reason Family Guy looks lifeless isn’t because of its adherence to models, but because outside of brief one-off shifts for gags they only have like 10 backgrounds and shot compositions they have to recycle ad nauseam so all the episodes look and feel exactly the same no matter what the plot is about. Which is great for executives who want to pinch every penny, not so much for anyone wanting to do anything remotely creative.

SU has a similar problem in that, despite the main defense for its off model appearance being that it can skew its visuals to fit different moods, it rarely ever does anything interesting in its shot composition - it’s mostly over the shoulder & shot reverse-shot with hefty helpings of middle framing for episides that are 90% talking, with the few exceptions more often than not being the work of guest animators. Which in turn ends up also being stiff and lifeless. SU in all its effort to avoid that with zero model sheets, just ended up with the worst of both worlds.

Besides, on model vs. off model is one of those things that got hijacked by no-nothing fags for their internet slap fights, and it‘s not really accurate to talk about character models in a strict binary anyways. So far HB and Hazbin character animation has been very flexible and fluid and a decent amount of variety in the shots (though the perspective relative to the background gets a little wonky at times) and so far I’ve noticed increments of improvement in the animation with the newer installments. For the budget and team size they’re working with, I’d say the output‘s been pretty solid quality wise so far.

 

[OmnipotentStupidity]

Keep in mind you’re talking to the same guy who outsourced his Vivz complaints to 4chan a couple pages back, and even then couldn’t be bothered to fact check before picking some /co/fag trying to claim that a show produced by a multi-billion dollar international toy company and another show studio funded by billion dollar conglomerates were "indie." Evidentially Pyle’s definition of what should count as indie isn’t "independently funded" or the less used but more specific "independent from Hollywood production/Hollywood influence" but whatever definition he thinks will specifically exclude Vivz.

God I forgot about that. That was the dumbest fucking thing.
Word to the wise: if you believe anything channers claim at face value like that, don't bother to at least fact-check it, and you aren't still taking it with the tiniest grain of salt possible, you are a dumbass.

 

[Racist Trash]

(though the perspective relative to the background gets a little wonky at times)

Yeah I have noticed characters walking towards the camera diagonally are "off" I don't know how to describe it but it just kind of stands out compared to everything else. An example of this is loona running up and kicking the baby in the HB pilot. (I think it may have to do with when they have buildings in the background they try to show as much of them as possible skewing the perspective.)

 

[AnOminous]

I mean, starting political pissing matches and going back and negrating us asking what your deal is isn't really proving otherwise.

If you even pay attention to rates on your posts you're autistic.

The show's not original - I just...don't understand this, and this feels like you're being flippant with the show: what about the show isn't original? I know there's other shows that feature Hell and all that, blah blah blah, but what other show has a princess of Hell opening a hotel to redeem wayward demons, a passion that's financed by the main antagonist of the show. Helluva Boss I get, because it's just The Office but with demon adventures. Hazbin not being an original I have a harder time understanding.

This is actually the main danger the show faces. This is what is called "high concept." If the concept fails, the show fails. I haven't seen that happening yet. And as for the characters, I'm still really interested in all of their back stories. I want to know how they ended up where they are.

This may be the best animation project in years.

 

[Private Pyle]

This may be the best animation project in years.

At the moment it’s stiff, or at the very least existing competition, with other indie cartoons. There hasn’t been web cartoons like this since, I want to say Homestar Runner? So it’s all new territory.

 

[Chilson]

At the moment it’s stiff, or at the very least existing competition, with other indie cartoons. There hasn’t been web cartoons like this since, I want to say Homestar Runner? So it’s all new territory.

Did Viv molest you or something? Even on the farms its rare to see someone this committed to shitting on something.

Hell, I think this thread gives a bit too much credit to her work so far. But its nowhere close to as bad as you keep trying to make it out to be.

 

[Private Pyle]

Hell, I think this thread gives a bit too much credit to her work so far.

I think that we can agree on. This is worst than the SJW thread.

 

[OmnipotentStupidity]

Did Viv molest you or something? Even on the farms its rare to see someone this committed to shitting on something.

Hell, I think this thread gives a bit too much credit to her work so far. But its nowhere close to as bad as you keep trying to make it out to be.

Oh no fucking wonder. After that Homestar comment, I had to glance over at his profile because I was sure he literally just got done talking about Long Gone Gulch and other indie shit in the Western Animation thread. And then I look on the first fuckin' page:

Spoiler

At this point, I’m seriously considering supporting BLM, Jesus Christ.

Nothing good could ever come from a right winger. Or anyone with an anime profile but I digress.

They kind of have a point here.

I would love to make hell for right wingers

Fuck the right. They are such hypocrites.

Imagine Antifa being smarter than you.

Like with the SJW thread. Anytime you pointed out the Right’s faults, that was their response

This right here is what people mean by culture war bullshit. Outright saying they deserve no sympathy and accusing anyone of not following the program of being one of them.
And that’s top of getting your knickers in a bunch over things like more diversity in the media.

>being a MAGApede
For what reason?

I was halfway skeptical it would make it to January 11; thankfully it avoided the New Mutants curse. The actual cartoon is alright.
I wonder if indie cartoons will have a future in the field of western animation.

In case you weren’t aware, SJWs aren’t the lolcow of the 2020s.

Because god forbid people have a hobby.
@CheezzyMach was on point today.

Banning people for violating TOS is not censorship.

And it just keeps on going. I did also end up finding the Long Gone Gulch bit too, so there's that, and I'll refrain from pointing out how other shit exists because that seems pointless now. He's been talking about and doing the same shit in other threads, and then started bitching about it here when people disagreed with him. That's probably why he derailed the thread into politics, and STILL keeps bringing up about the SJW thread. Is that why you hate her so much? Because you think her cartoons are extremely problematic, and that makes you fuckin' seethe?

Props to you if this was all just bait and you were just pretending to be retarded, but if it is: then man, you are playing quite the long con.

 

[Private Pyle]

I had to glance over at his profile because I was sure he literally just got done talking about Long Gone Gulch and other indie shit in the Western Animation thread.

The ironic part is I found Long Gone Gulch to be a fine little cartoon.

 

[AnOminous]

The ironic part is I found Long Gone Gulch to be a fine little cartoon.

I thought it was pretty okay, but I still like Hazbin more. Given these two indie projects, I'm feeling mildly optimistic about the possible future of animation. I don't necessarily have a good reason or claim for HH/HB being objectively awesome, but I just adore them. I don't need a reason to adore something.

 

[Private Pyle]

I thought it was pretty okay, but I still like Hazbin more. Given these two indie projects, I'm feeling mildly optimistic about the possible future of animation. I don't necessarily have a good reason or claim for HH/HB being objectively awesome, but I just adore them. I don't need a reason to adore something.

I can understand finding LGG a bit okay; there were things that hold it back from being really great like the odd sound and comedic timing that killed some of the jokes.
But being fine ain’t bad and it’s still serviceable as a pilot for a potential series.

 

[AnOminous]

I can understand finding LGG a bit okay; there were things that hold it back from being really great like the odd sound and comedic timing that killed some of the jokes.
But being fine ain’t bad and it’s still serviceable as a pilot for a potential series.

Pilots are pilots. You don't really get the full sense of a series from them, and some of them are pretty bad while the series ends up good. Look at the pilot for ST:TNG. It utterly blew but the series itself turned out amazing.

 

[One Man Bland]

Yeah I have noticed characters walking towards the camera diagonally are "off" I don't know how to describe it but it just kind of stands out compared to everything else. An example of this is loona running up and kicking the baby in the HB pilot. (I think it may have to do with when they have buildings in the background they try to show as much of them as possible skewing the perspective.)

I’ve noticed it’s most obvious in the shots where the "camera" is moving at the same as the characters - the scene in the beginning when the demons are emerging immediately post-purge and the pan out trailing cam effect during Alastor’s music number spring to mind. It’s basically a matter of trying to combine two or three things that are already extremely tricky in animation: one or two point perspective backgrounds, a walk cycle, and a camera pan or zoom where everything needs to be moving in rhythm with each other. So when one of those things is off the results are either that characters look like they’re suddenly growing or shrinking rather than moving through a field of depth, or they have this "hydroplane" effect where they sorta moonwalk across the frame in a way that doesn’t feel like they‘re on the same plane as the backdrop - sometimes both. The more elements you gotta track and calculate the timing & spacing for, the easier it is to miss the mark.

But like I said, those are things are tricky and it just takes a lot of practice to get exact; so I don’t really hold those kinds of typical artistic growing pains against the animation team. I’d rather the animators keep doing shots like that, even if they don’t completely stick the landing every time, than see them only sticking to their comfort zones.

The show's not original - I just...don't understand this, and this feels like you're being flippant with the show: what about the show isn't original? I know there's other shows that feature Hell and all that, blah blah blah, but what other show has a princess of Hell opening a hotel to redeem wayward demons, a passion that's financed by the main antagonist of the show. Helluva Boss I get, because it's just The Office but with demon adventures. Hazbin not being an original I have a harder time understanding.

This is actually the main danger the show faces. This is what is called "high concept." If the concept fails, the show fails. I haven't seen that happening yet. And as for the characters, I'm still really interested in all of their back stories. I want to know how they ended up where they are.

This may be the best animation project in years.

I feel like originality is a bit of a meaningless buzzword, and not just in the cliche "nothing’s original" way. Originality doesn’t mean squat if the pieces of a story aren’t coming together in a way that feels natural or satisfying - that’s how you get those YouTube reviewers whose entire metric for measuring quality is based on whether or not they could predict the the plot, or shit like the GoT finale where they threw in plot twists for the sole purpose of trying to surprise the audience. A lot of the characters and elements in HH & HB are familiar, but I find the real draw has been in the presentation so far. Plus it’s cool to see a show about Hell that seemingly draws inspiration froma lot of the more occult parts of Christian mythology like the Ars Goetia, The Lesser & Greater Keys of Solomon, and the Dictionnaire Infernal as opposed to sticking with the more mainstream stuff like The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost.

Though I’d disagree that the main danger lies in the concept. I’m personally more worried about Hazbin in particular losing context if the show for some reason decides not to adapt or include elements of the comics they’ve written for the series already, or losing focus given the size if the cast.

 

[AnOminous]

Plus it’s cool to see a show about Hell that seemingly draws inspiration froma lot of the more occult parts of Christian mythology like the Ars Goetia, The Lesser & Greater Keys of Solomon, and the Dictionnaire Infernal as opposed to sticking with the more mainstream stuff like The Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost.

I'm actually really liking these parts of the show too. You don't see much of this. I'm also seeing hints of C.S. Lewis and Catholicism in general. I don't know what Vivienne's background in Catholicism is but I can't believe there isn't any Catholicism in this, especially the theme of universal redemption. Alastor's statements in opposition to the very concept of redemption can't possibly be accidental.

 

[Private Pyle]

Pilots are pilots. You don't really get the full sense of a series from them, and some of them are pretty bad while the series ends up good. Look at the pilot for ST:TNG. It utterly blew but the series itself turned out amazing.

Indie might be facing an uphill struggle as outlined here.

Now granted even I have point out the obsession with writers that seem to plague every /co/ post.

 

[One Man Bland]

I'm actually really liking these parts of the show too. You don't see much of this. I'm also seeing hints of C.S. Lewis and Catholicism in general. I don't know what Vivienne's background in Catholicism is but I can't believe there isn't any Catholicism in this, especially the theme of universal redemption. Alastor's statements in opposition to the very concept of redemption can't possibly be accidental.

If she didn’t grow up with the religion, then she’s definitely done her homework. I definitely like that it seems like the elements that were drawn from mythology were incorporated into the characters & possibly their overall role in the story. I’ve seen too many artists who have a whole well to tap into but then only using it for window dressing.

Though speaking of Alastor, he’s probably the only character whose design I’m just not feeling. When I first watched HH I took him as having a fox motif between his mostly red color scheme, pointed ear tufts with the black detailing, sharp teeth, and the way his antlers were easy to miss; I never would’ve gotten "deer" from his appearance if I hadn’t stumbled upon that but of trivia on accident. Plus I‘ve never been able to get over how out of place his bob(?) haircut looks on a man who supposedly died in the 30s, especially since Alastor comes off as much more old fashioned compared to characters like Angel and therefore less likely to change with trends. Supposedly died being accidentally shot by a deer hunter, so it’s possible his hair is meant to look like a hunting hat, but that feels like a stretch.

It’s a shame because there is a certain irony in Alastor supposedly being a deer demon since deer have a long history of being associated with nature, peace, and often divinity and Alastor is... exactly none of those things, but I don’t think that really comes through in his design and he‘s where I think the some of the limits in Vivz’s aesthetic preferences are the most obvious. Maybe there‘s a different purpose in mind and the deer elements aren‘t meant to be immediately obvious, but it’s hard to tell with what’s been presented so for now I’m still pretty "meh" about him design wise.

 

[AnOminous]

It’s a shame because there is a certain irony in Alastor supposedly being a deer demon since deer have a long history of being associated with nature, peace, and often divinity and Alastor is... exactly none of those things, but I don’t think that really comes through in his design and he‘s where I think the some of the limits in Vivz’s aesthetic preferences are the most obvious. Maybe there‘s a different purpose in mind and the deer elements aren‘t meant to be immediately obvious, but it’s hard to tell with what’s been presented so for now I’m still pretty "meh" about him design wise.

He looks like a strawberry pimp.

It is interesting though in that he is probably a cannibal. The Alastor comic involved him buying venison at a butcher shop before things got rather more violent. So that's probably the kind of serial killer he was. He does not seem very much like a deer at all, though if you look at deer furries in general, you end up with absolutely insane creeps like that Twitch deer queer. So I can definitely see a deer queer as a seriously fucked up individual like Alastor is.

 

[Private Pyle]

If she didn’t grow up with the religion, then she’s definitely done her homework. I definitely like that it seems like the elements that were drawn from mythology were incorporated into the characters & possibly their overall role in the story. I’ve seen too many artists who have a whole well to tap into but then only using it for window dressing.

Though speaking of Alastor, he’s probably the only character whose design I’m just not feeling. When I first watched HH I took him as having a fox motif between his mostly red color scheme, pointed ear tufts with the black detailing, sharp teeth, and the way his antlers were easy to miss; I never would’ve gotten "deer" from his appearance if I hadn’t stumbled upon that but of trivia on accident. Plus I‘ve never been able to get over how out of place his bob(?) haircut looks on a man who supposedly died in the 30s, especially since Alastor comes off as much more old fashioned compared to characters like Angel and therefore less likely to change with trends. Supposedly died being accidentally shot by a deer hunter, so it’s possible his hair is meant to look like a hunting hat, but that feels like a stretch.

It’s a shame because there is a certain irony in Alastor supposedly being a deer demon since deer have a long history of being associated with nature, peace, and often divinity and Alastor is... exactly none of those things, but I don’t think that really comes through in his design and he‘s where I think the some of the limits in Vivz’s aesthetic preferences are the most obvious. Maybe there‘s a different purpose in mind and the deer elements aren‘t meant to be immediately obvious, but it’s hard to tell with what’s been presented so for now I’m still pretty "meh" about him design wise.

Alastor actually started out looking like a deer in the 2011 drawings before years of redesign shaped him up, like a piece of wood whittled and carved into a sculpture.
Vaggie followed a similar trajectory.

 

[AnOminous]

Vaggie followed a similar trajectory.

Vaggie is an annoying SJW whore which is what I like about her because she is a foil to shitlords like Angel Dust.