Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >tfw even your VA thinks that you're a loser

[Gin-san]

>tfw you know your favorite character is going to die next episode

 

[Tetra]

>tfw you know your favorite character is going to die next episode
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>tfw you know your anime-only friends favorite character is gonna die next episode

 

[Travoltron]

Is there some significance to Loli Mary Sue looking like Sasha?

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Is there some significance to Loli Mary Sue looking like Sasha?

Yes, she's literally supposed to replace her. She also gets her archery skills, her friends, and even her fucking family later on.

 

[Nero You're DeadWeight]

Never thought i'd be back, but my close non-animeish friend is viewing the anime. I told her about the manga, she's skipping it but oh lord seeing her get excited it's pretty funny. She's never really watched anime, but the fact she chose AOT to be her first one outside of Ace Attorney is pretty interesting. Wonder how she'll feel when she gets to the later seasons.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

It's been months and I still don't get the labeling of Gabi as a Mary Sue. At best, she's a narrative tool to make certain things happen, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue. She's pretty much precluded from the label since she's at no point the protagonist and she never gets the moral high ground (technically, nobody gets the moral high ground in the narrative).

>tfw you know your anime-only friends favorite character is gonna die next episode

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I hate the fact that I like this literal cocksucker's face and character.

 

[FaramirG]

It's been months and I still don't get the labeling of Gabi as a Mary Sue. At best, she's a narrative tool to make certain things happen, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue. She's pretty much precluded from the label since she's at no point the protagonist and she never gets the moral high ground (technically, nobody gets the moral high ground in the narrative).


I hate the fact that I like this literal cocksucker's face and character.

She's more of an author's pet who just Forrest Gumps her way through every relevant post-timeskip event for no real reason. Even now with the Alliance vs Eren, we've got
-Titan shifters
-Hardened military veterans who are experts at killing titans
-And Gabi, for some reason

 

[Bunny Tracks]

It's been months and I still don't get the labeling of Gabi as a Mary Sue. At best, she's a narrative tool to make certain things happen, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue. She's pretty much precluded from the label since she's at no point the protagonist and she never gets the moral high ground (technically, nobody gets the moral high ground in the narrative).


I hate the fact that I like this literal cocksucker's face and character.

I consider her a Mary Sue because everyone in-series with the single explicit exception of Eren forgives her way too easily, with some people like Sasha's own fucking parents going as far as to basically say that she did nothing wrong when she killed their daughter, pulls off incredibly insane feats like cleanly decapitating Eren with a big-ass gun in while he's running in the middle of a titan-infested, debris-filled battlefield despite being just fucking twelve-years-old,* picks up, and masters skills way too easily like the former, gets a fuckton of unwarranted praise dumped on her by various characters despite being an annoying brat, by some of which who should at the very least dislike her for all the shit she's done, and gets shoved into the spotlight way too much despite being there being other KoM characters that are more interesting, and likable than her like fucking Pieck.

*Real talk, if this part didn't happen, but I'd honestly be way less incline to call Gabi a Mary Sue. I would still consider her a bad character, and a blatant attempt at replacing Sasha, but I wouldn't consider her a Mary Sue.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

everyone in-series with the single explicit exception of Eren forgives her way too easily, with some people like Sasha's own fucking parents going as far as to basically say that she did nothing wrong when she killed their daughter

Niccolo and Kaya aren't people, apparently.

Also, Sasha's dad forgave her because he recognized the both of them as war combatants who must have also lost people dear to them in a war that her daughter fought in. His being able to think broadly is a central attribute of his character.

pulls off incredibly insane feats like cleanly decapitating Eren with a big-ass gun in while he's running in the middle of a titan-infested, debris-filled battlefield despite being just fucking twelve-years-old,*

The fact that she's a trained child soldier literally at the top of her class who had not long ago made a critical contribution to the final battle of a war her country had been in aside, the fact that she was knocked on her ass from the recoil of that gun suggests that it was a lucky shot that still wasn't easy.

You also indicate that you wouldn't have called her a Mary Sue if not for this, but the defining issue of the Mary Sue is that they're a black hole for conflict, which necessarily means that they have to be the main character. If they do things that are clearly convenient for the plot as envisioned by the author but the entire narrative doesn't involve around them, then they're plot devices at worst. Gabi 360-noscoping Eren doesn't neutralize conflict at any level-- it's actually used to facilitate it.

picks up, and masters skills way too easily like the former, gets a fuckton of unwarranted praise dumped on her by various characters despite being an annoying brat

Wait, wouldn't the former and the fact that she's literally a war hero be justification enough? And again, the issue of the Mary Sue isn't about isolated stuff like quick skill mastery-- it's about the fact that the entirety of the narrative, characters and all, are bent towards them, such that they suffer no conflict and therefore no change. A Mary Sue is always on the moral highground when not written as a villain protagonist not because they're written to always be on the moral high ground, but because no internal or interpersonal conflict exists such that they could be wrong and there could be consequences for being wrong.

This person shot someone that several other people loved and was incapable of understanding that the island Eldians-- regardless of anything-- are held up as a global scapegoat for reasons to which they have no connection. Actually interacting with the island Eldians generated cognitive dissonance because she could no longer generalize "the enemy", "the enemy" presented as generous, and they were in fact of the same race as "the enemy". None of this would happen with a Mary Sue-- they would have come to the understanding Gabi struggled to reach either at the point that they encountered "the enemy" or well before because the writer wouldn't want to make her look icky either by-- respectively-- having her look like a dumbass or like a self-loathing racist.

and gets shoved into the spotlight way too much despite being there being other KoM characters that are more interesting, and likable than her like fucking Pieck.

I like Pieck, too.

That said, Gabi's obviously meant as an Eren parallel (i don't know where you got the "Sasha replacement" idea from aside from "gun").

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Niccolo and Kaya aren't people, apparently.

Also, Sasha's dad forgave her because he recognized the both of them as war combatants who must have also lost people dear to them in a war that her daughter fought in. His being able to think broadly is a central attribute of his character.

The fact that she's a trained child soldier literally at the top of her class who had not long ago made a critical contribution to the final battle of a war her country had been in aside, the fact that she was knocked on her ass from the recoil of that gun suggests that it was a lucky shot that still wasn't easy.

You also indicate that you wouldn't have called her a Mary Sue if not for this, but the defining issue of the Mary Sue is that they're a black hole for conflict, which necessarily means that they have to be the main character. If they do things that are clearly convenient for the plot as envisioned by the author but the entire narrative doesn't involve around them, then they're plot devices at worst. Gabi 360-noscoping Eren doesn't neutralize conflict at any level-- it's actually used to facilitate it.


Wait, wouldn't the former and the fact that she's literally a war hero be justification enough? And again, the issue of the Mary Sue isn't about isolated stuff like quick skill mastery-- it's about the fact that the entirety of the narrative, characters and all, are bent towards them, such that they suffer no conflict and therefore no change. A Mary Sue is always on the moral highground when not written as a villain protagonist not because they're written to always be on the moral high ground, but because no internal or interpersonal conflict exists such that they could be wrong and there could be consequences for being wrong.

This person shot someone that several other people loved and was incapable of understanding that the island Eldians-- regardless of anything-- are held up as a global scapegoat for reasons to which they have no connection. Actually interacting with the island Eldians generated cognitive dissonance because she could no longer generalize "the enemy", "the enemy" presented as generous, and they were in fact of the same race as "the enemy". None of this would happen with a Mary Sue-- they would have come to the understanding Gabi struggled to reach either at the point that they encountered "the enemy" or well before because the writer wouldn't want to make her look icky either by-- respectively-- having her look like a dumbass or like a self-loathing racist.


I like Pieck, too.

That said, Gabi's obviously meant as an Eren parallel (i don't know where you got the "Sasha replacement" idea from aside from "gun").

Look, our interpretations on what is and is not a Mary Sue are clearly different, and that's fine. All I'm gonna say is that Gabi is a really mishandled character at best. I will concede the fact that gun thing is probably just author fiat again, but that doesn't excuse it, or make it any better, and I'm still gonna stand by my original position.

 

[Cryogonal]

Training or not, y'ain't able to hold (let alone fire) a literal anti tank rifle with any precision if you're a prepubescent girl.

 

[armoreddinnerjacket]

That said, Gabi's obviously meant as an Eren parallel (i don't know where you got the "Sasha replacement" idea from aside from "gun").

Eren's been the main character for the entire series. Gabi shows up at the beginning of act 2. She may be a parallel to Eren, but she hasn't had half the character development. Moreover, the traits that worked with Eren aren't nearly as appealing when she's got protaganist blood on her hands.

 

[Stay safe]

Also, Sasha's dad forgave her because he recognized the both of them as war combatants who must have also lost people dear to them in a war that her daughter fought in. His being able to think

You left out the part where Gabi's side planned to murder every single citizen of Paradis just for their race, while Sasha's just wanted to defend themselves.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Eren's been the main character for the entire series. Gabi shows up at the beginning of act 2. She may be a parallel to Eren, but she hasn't had half the character development. Moreover, the traits that worked with Eren aren't nearly as appealing when she's got protaganist blood on her hands.

I don't think her narrative purposes necessitate her being likable as much as they necessitate her being understandable.

You left out the part where Gabi's side planned to murder every single citizen of Paradis just for their race, while Sasha's just wanted to defend themselves.

Is pre-Paradis Gabi supposed to recognize that when her home was destroyed and several of her comrades and friends were killed, all while carrying the propaganda of the island Eldians being devils while she constantly seeks to prove that she's not like them so her and her family aren't considered for cannon fodder down the line?

 

[Stay safe]

I don't think her narrative purposes necessitate her being likable as much as they necessitate her being understandable.


Is pre-Paradis Gabi supposed to recognize that when her home was destroyed and several of her comrades and friends were killed, all while carrying the propaganda of the island Eldians being devils while she constantly seeks to prove that she's not like them so her and her family aren't considered for cannon fodder down the line?

If propaganda is so hard to resist, then why was Paradis flooded with Titans? Each one of those is someone who resisted against Marley and was punished for it. If so many people can do it, including Gabi's best friend, then why can't she? And don't say it was because her family was super duper Indoctrinated, so was Grisha's, his own parents told him his sister deserved to die for trespassing, told him that for years, but he never believed it.

And let's not forget he was friends with Xavier, and we saw what he did to Zeke. Yet Grisha didn't turn into a self-hating Nazi.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

You left out the part where Gabi's side planned to murder every single citizen of Paradis just for their race, while Sasha's just wanted to defend themselves.

This.

Like it, or not, on top of everything else, Gabi planned to literally slaughter everyone on Paradis just because they were Eldians. Yeah, I know it's because she's supposed to a parallel to Eren, but that still doesn't make it okay. Neither does the fact that she's a child soldier because literally everyone else in the series was a child soldier, too. Neither does her being brainwashed by propaganda because other Marleyans have been shown to see right through that shit easily like Grisha fucking did, and the KoM itself is really bad with how blatantly false it's own propaganda is.

The only thing that would remotely work for it was her being concerned for her family, but we never see that, and since Gabi herself is always so gun-ho about everything, I don't think that's the case.

If she just wanted to kill the SC, fine. That's understandable. But wanting to genocide an entire race for any reason is beyond retarded, and completely inexcusable, and I really wish people would stop trying to justify it.

 

[Stay safe]

Yeah, I know it's because she's supposed to a parallel to Eren,

The best part is that's a big part of why Gabi doesn't work as a parallel. When he was Gabi's age, Eren was very different from the others. The SC was extremely unpopular back then (and rightly so), crowds would form when they returned just to mock them, kinda like a medieval version of Kiwi Farms. Eren was one of the very few outside of the SC that actually liked them. Armin and Grisha were the only other ones, even Carla knew they were idiots.

He and Armin were also bullied for being interested in the outside world (something Isayama never showed outside of one scene).

If Gabi was really Eren if he was born in Marley, then she would have unpopular opinions like he did, she wouldn't fall for propaganda.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

The best part is that's a big part of why Gabi doesn't work as a parallel. When he was Gabi's age, Eren was very different from the others. The SC was extremely unpopular back then (and rightly so), crowds would form when they returned just to mock them, kinda like a medieval version of Kiwi Farms. Eren was one of the very few outside of the SC that actually liked them. Armin and Grisha were the only other ones, even Carla knew they were idiots.

Real talk, I really wish we got to see more of these scenes. The SC needs to be mocked more, and face actually consequences for the fucking retarded, reckless, callous and inexcusable shit they do.

 

[armoreddinnerjacket]

Perhaps that's part of the issue: the characters introduced later on are less sympathetic to some readers. In wading through Eren's backstory you get hit with some much undiluted hatred and bigotry that you end up not caring anymore. Gabi being Eren on the other side of the fence doesn't mean much when I've come to thoroughly despise anyone who isn't part of the main cast.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

If propaganda is so hard to resist, then why was Paradis flooded with Titans? Each one of those is someone who resisted against Marley and was punished for it.

How many Eldians in Marley do you think there are compared to the dissidents who were 1) captured, and 2) titanized in Paradis instead of Titanized for war purposes or just executed?

Secondly, the issue isn't really about resistance to propaganda-- the propaganda is an extra layer of security in demoralizing the Marleyan Eldians, the first layer of security being that they can literally round them all up and turn them into cannon fodder and you would not be able to convince the world to give a damn. It doesn't really matter if the propaganda is readily received if it does the trick of demoralizing a people who have no competing historical record and no power to successfully rebel. It just happens that Gabi believes it wholeheartedly and devoted her life to the Marleyan cause, also seeking to protect her family, and to prove her worth to the world as one of the "good ones".

Thirdly, to the Marleyan Eldians, the island Eldians weren't people. As in, they were an abstract concept to them.

If so many people can do it, including Gabi's best friend, then why can't she?

Falco was in regular correspondence with hobo Eren and was forced to endure a conversation between Eren and Reiner where they literally spell out that they're only fighting to protect what they care about. Gabi didn't get any of that until after she met the Blouses and Niccolo. Assuming that every Eldian Titanized on Paradis was a dissident, it was because a) they were dissatisfied with their status quo, b) they happened upon an Eldian Restorationist gathering, c) they were convinced and willing to become one of them, and d) the Restorationists were able to provide to them a competing historical record.

Forget expecting Gabi to readily rationalize the morality of an empire for whom she already committed a war crime to get the upper hand in a pivotal battle-- up until the point she gets inadvertently Fedex'd to Paradis, she has neither the means nor the incentive to reexamine Marley.

And don't say it was because her family was super duper Indoctrinated, so was Grisha's, his own parents told him his sister deserved to die for trespassing, told him that for years, but he never believed it.

It was pretty clear that Grisha's father was noided to "the walls have ears" levels and wasn't telling Grisha what he actually believed, but rather what he "needed" to believe to not get him and their entire lineage fed to dogs or turned into Titans in ɹɐɔsɐƃɐpɐW.

Like it, or not, on top of everything else, Gabi planned to literally slaughter everyone on Paradis just because they were Eldians. Yeah, I know it's because she's supposed to a parallel to Eren, but that still doesn't make it okay.

No, she planned to literally slaughter everyone on Paradis because she's of the mind that the source of her suffering as a Marleyan Eldian comes from the island Eldians, she doesn't have any non-generalized, non-abstract conception of the island Eldians, and then by complete coincidence they ended up proving her point in her mind by raiding her hometown and killing several of her comrades.

Bertolt, Reiner, and Annie let loose Titans in Eren's hometown in order to smoke out the Founding Titan. Erwin considered the residents of Stohess collateral damage in pursuit of capturing Annie. Zeke wants to cut the balls off every Eldian so they can't reproduce ever again, and Eren was last sighted committing Ragnarök on the entire world. Nobody's saying that what Gabi wanted to do was "okay", but this is a narrative where several characters of note either do or plan to do very not okay things for the sake of-- at the root-- their own goals. Like hell am I going to rationalize the actions according to a conventional morality.

If Gabi was really Eren if he was born in Marley, then she would have unpopular opinions like he did, she wouldn't fall for propaganda.

You mean like all the island Eldians did when their minds were wiped a century prior and they were given a retelling of history where they were the remainder of humanity? Literally everyone spends 80-something chapters either laboring under or trying to break through that very propaganda. The two people who were even slightly ahead of the curve were Erwin and his dad, and the latter got disappeared for it.