Argue with vatniks over trains

[Doctor Love]

just because you haven't received an answer that can convince you doesn't mean you have a good theory. it means you're too retarded to know any better.

if everywhere you walk smells of shit, look under your shoe.

I haven't received an answer at all

This is KiwiFarms, the entire website smells of shit, that's the entire point

 

[skunt]

I haven't received an answer at all

the very first reply is an answer and the thread is 8 pages long.

again, you're retarded.

 

[Londo]

nope, why would that even be a consideration?

What are you gonna do if Russia decides to pull it off, and they are even more successful than I suggested?

Call them retarded while Uncle Sam packs his shit and fucks off from Europe?

You're genuinely retarded. Europe contains some of the world's top militaries. Once again, as I have said to you, just because those militaries aren't designed to protect power at the scale of America doesn't mean they aren't effective at what they do.

Russia had its shit caved in by a bunch of farmers and Grannies with poisoned cookies. Even before the west supplied equipment the Russians still fucked up in their initial invasion to the extent of a good amount of their special forces being wiped out within a week.

You also assume the average Russian has any real desire to go to war and expand - they don't. Most Russians just want to be left the fuck alone like the rest of us.

This is what would happen:

Putin Tries to attack NATO
NATO kicks Russia's shit in
Putin gets ousted by his own people when they suddenly remember all the American, British and French Nukes aimed at them with no chance of China coming to help and no chance of successfully taking over anything more than a post-office.
War over, Russia resumes its normal status as a cucked underpower.

 

[Doctor Love]

You're genuinely retarded. Europe contains some of the world's top militaries. Once again, as I have said to you, just because those militaries aren't designed to protect power at the scale of America doesn't mean they aren't effective at what they do.

Which are those, again?
Poland is the only one which can actually fight a large, industrial opponent - and without air superiority, they can't win. All they can do is hold the line, while everyone else tries to get America to help.

What part of the Ukraine war had you thinking "Wow, these guys are dumb. You know who would be better at this? The Dutch."

 

[Towoman]

how are russians going to make german trains work in wartime when they dont even work in peacetime?

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Well, seeing how you are just making things up I have to assume you have a condition similar to Liz Fong-Jones and are blind as well as retarded. I know AIDS does that to a nigga. Here's the rules for this thread:
View attachment 5567732

I’m making things up? I provided infographics, vatnigger.

If it makes you mad, stop having AIDS and you won’t be in this uncomfy position

 

[teriyakiburns]

Is there some anti-train defence that is currently active in Europe?

Yes. It's called "the entire rail network".

Think through the scenario from the start. Russia wants to load a bunch of soldiers onto a train and invade a European capital.

How many? Realistically, to take and hold even part of a single city, you'd need at least two mechanised infantry battalions. probably a whole regiment. A (British) regiment is typically somewhere in the region of 6000 people. Assuming you only send soldiers and equipment, with none of the support personnel, say 4500, plus around 400 vehicles.

Where do they start? They'd have to cross into a friendly country that is connected to the European train network, which is the first failure point: that many troops crossing the Russian border would be noticed immediately, especially now that Russia has drawn the attention of the entire world to its every movement. And especially as there are no friendly countries bordering Russia that also operate standard gauge trains.

Then you have to consider how many trains are necessary to move that number of men and all of their equipment. It's certainly more than one.

And finally (though in any real assessment, this would be first) what for? What purpose does sending a regiment deep into enemy territory actually serve? The route they took will now be closed, as every further train traveling the same route will be diverted or just bombed, so reinforcements and resupply are out. Even if they took and held an airport, the Russians would not have the ability to fly in reinforcements as they'd now have to fly over hundreds of miles of active AAA and would have not only local airforce presence to contend with, but the Americans as well.

Assuming a) they have captured all of Ukraine and pacified it, giving them a border with Hungary, b) Hungary is willing to go along with this plan, and c) they manage to sneak a whole mechanised regiment onto a bunch of trains in Hungary and set them off toward western europe, you now have a new problem: Scheduling. Trains don't just turn up willy-nilly on the network and roll until they reach a destination; they all require movement orders. Hungary suddenly dispatching a slew of fully-laden trains, carrying multiple thousands of people and dozens of mechanised armoured vehicles west would raise questions, to say the least. They'd get as far as Neue Teilung, or perhaps Parndorf, before anyone more observant than a sheep raised the alarm, at which point the rail system would be shut down. All the points would be switched against them and they'd be routed into a siding, surrounded by whatever military units could be scrambled to meet them.

In a war, trains are only useful for logistics in areas you already control. The Russians love their enormous carrying capacity, which is why they tend to focus on capturing rail-heads and establishing defensive perimeters parallel to railway lines (and why Ukraine likes to blow them up whenever it gets the chance). They are not, in any way, a viable means of carrying out an invasion, not only for the reasons I laid out above, but also because you are immediately restricting your movements to predictable routes that are controlled by someone else. Ask the Romans how that went at Teuteborg.

 

[AgendaPoster]

This thread is so retarded it doesn't even warrant an MD presence

 

[Doctor Love]

See I actually like this guy for coming out with a decent answer.

To clarify, the goal would be to try to cause enough panic and get enough soldiers into the political heartland to force European countries to reject American support or surrender the American bases, and sign over control of the armed forces - not to militarily occupy or neutralise their armed forces. So far, European support is responsible for tens of thousands of excess Russian deaths, and I don't think they're going to just say "Ah, well, we'll get em next time guys"

Ukraine has, to my knowledge, also replaced several lines with European lines - so they could launch from Ukraine itself, specifically Lviv.

The train guys would be an isolated unit - to my knowledge, there's no command mechanism for anyone to stop the train, and once it disembarks it would do so in a visible, public place and an area where they would have several hours of being unchallenged. There could be one, in theory, but by the time anyone figures out whose responsibility it is, the train could be in a major city.

The overall goal is to make the country surrender before anyone even has a chance to fight against it - like a gambit. It doesn't necessarily have to be a train - civilian airliners, cargo ships, just some means of circumventing the NATO "shield" and bringing the fight to a European capital from the get-go. With that in mind, the battle is no longer a "paper fight" and now, all civilian losses will be of whichever European country - as you say, Austria, or Germany, or Slovakia, whoever is unlucky enough.

But this works too. This is the other extreme. A full invasion force, using the trains. The same logic applies to it - the train may be able to achieve 120km/h up to 200km/h, and has a direct route into the major cities by design. So instead of trying to launch attacks against Russian tanks in a column, you have to now launch airstrikes against Russian tanks in the streets, in your case, Parndorf. If it was an armoured train, not just a freight train, then it could even bring SAMs and shit with it.

That's where time comes into it. Trains go very fast. Parndorf is only 20km away from the border with Hungary - which is assuming that the Hungarians would allow this.

I was going off the idea that it would be from Ukraine to Poland, since Poland is the largest target and the one which would be able to retaliate the hardest. By my maths, if the reaction time was an insane 30 minutes between the border being crossed and the train being diverted, it would be in Lublin. If it was around 90 minutes, it would already be in Warsaw.

In a war, trains are only useful for logistics in areas you already control

This is also part of my point. These lines are, effectively, "uncontrolled" by anyone. They don't have a sizeable military presence, they are peaceful and controlled by civilians. So Russia would, by virtue of being the only ones on it at the time, be in effective control of the line until someone can figure out how to remove them. And if there isn't some established defense against this kind of attack - hijacking the rail network - then it represents an actual risk, not an imaginary one.

Then there's the other point - what do you do once you stop the train? If this train launched from Ukraine into Slovakia, would Slovakia want it to be stopped on their territory, so that their soldiers can be the ones to lay down their lives? Or would they let it continue onward to Czechia - likewise, would Czechia say "This looks like Germany's problem" or try to organise an actual response?

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

we, the UK, are also tired from this war.

uh oh, I sense we might have another Bong who is going to pull a TMI move and join his fellow exceptional countryman Felix Lang soon.

stop having AIDS

*FIV

Ok, but listen to my idea: poisoning the toilet paper supply. People won't die immediately but in a few weeks everyone that isn't a filthy hobo will have sucked up enough poison through their asshole that they become seriously sick or start keeling over. Who would suspect toilet paper bio terrorism?

And Russians being BRICSters wipe with their left hand anyway, so they wouldn't ever bother with toilet paper.

 

[Yak-130 Mitten]

This thread is so retarded it doesn't even warrant an MD presence

To be frank, I shit on ukrainian fantasies all the time for various reasons, but usually - they are probable. They somewhat make sense and could be executed.

THIS, the entire fucking idea might be the most retarded thing I have ever read. It transcends autism, and goes to another plane of existance. In fact, even a train autist would point out how stupid it is. And I used to post on paradox games forums with a lot of homegrown strategists.

I am almost convinced that the dude is a balt. Even the most retarded brit knows how a train works, given he would live in a country THAT INVENTED THE FUCKING RAILWAY

 

[Doctor Love]

To be frank, I shit on ukrainian fantasies all the time for various reasons, but usually - they are probable. They somewhat make sense and could be executed.

THIS, the entire fucking idea might be the most retarded thing I have ever read. It transcends autism, and goes to another plane of existance. In fact, even a train autist would point out how stupid it is. And I used to post on paradox games forums with a lot of homegrown strategists.

I am almost convinced that the dude is a balt. Even the most retarded brit knows how a train works, given he would live in a country THAT INVENTED THE FUCKING RAILWAY

Seething LARPer

I get it - you are offended because the trains undermine your cope, the plane in your PFP gives it away.

 

[Londo]

Seething LARPer

I get it - you are offended because the trains undermine your cope, the plane in your PFP gives it away.

Oh. You're not retarded. You're just a really, really good troll.

10/10 was convinced this whole debate was real.

 

[Doctor Love]

Oh. You're not retarded. You're just a really, really good troll.

10/10 was convinced this whole debate was real.

Well only one guy seems to understand the point - you've been trying to tell me that Sweden could beat Russia.

Context - if Ukraine falls, Russia has ample reasoning to neutralise the entire continent by forcing European governments to turn away from the Americans.

To do so, they would need to overrun the defenses before America can save them. Once it becomes clear that the European states have everything to lose, and very little to gain, they should logically surrender the American bases and refuse permission for the Americans to strike the Russians.

Long shot, but certainly not impossible.

You then sperged out about how Ukraine #1 and Russia is too weak, and even Austria could destroy Pootin.

 

[Scipio Neomericanus]

Every time

Because my entire experience has been:
- ask what would happen if Russia just fills a few trains with troops and goes directly to European cities

Then, a drooling horde of internet experts yell "IT WOULDN'T WORK"

Then I ask - why? What's the plan?

Then the drooling horde of internet experts, this time angrier, screams "YOU ARE A RETARD, OBVIOUSLY IT WOULDN'T WORK"

Then I ask - why? What is the plan? Is there any actual countermeasure?

I'll be nice because it seems like your fee fees get hurt by getting called a moron on the internet.
People are giving you reasonable, but not super detailed, responses because nobody has the time to explain to a person who wants to be right why they are wrong. Your argument is about a train invasion is fucking stupid. I'm sorry. I'm also sorry that I don't want to spend 3 hours writing a 5-page essay for you on why it wouldn't work.

There have been multiple people who have given you good, detailed explanations that show why your dogshit theory is dogshit. Your only response has been to dismiss real criticism of your theory and claim you're still the only reasonable one here.

Your entire argument is that all of Europe would surrender because a single trainload of Russian soldiers enter a major European capital. They would be entirely unopposed, everyone would be shitting themselves, pissing and crying in the streets. The logical choice is to surrender!!

It's fucking nonsense. Europe has become gay and weak, yes, but your vision of Europe is that everyone who lives there is an incompetent diaper baby who would let themselves be conquered with a single trainload of gopniks. Best it would do is sow confusion for a little bit, but there would still be a war to be fought because Art 5 just got triggered over some petty, stupid bullshit.

The payoff from the gamble you're suggesting is extremely remote and it represents an extreme escalation that can lead to extreme consequences. So why even consider it?

I'm not the only one who told you this.

 

[Doctor Love]

I'm not the only one who told you this.

Quick question.

If America sent an envoy to say, Canada- a train load of American marines, who walk into parliament in some big stunt. What would Canada do?

Would Canada slaughter them all, demanding more blood for the blood God, knowing full well that by the time anybody tries to help them, they'll see thousands of their citizens strewn around the place?

 

[Betonhaus]

Quick question.

If America sent an envoy to say, Canada- a train load of American marines, who walk into parliament in some big stunt. What would Canada do?

Would Canada slaughter them all, demanding more blood for the blood God, knowing full well that by the time anybody tries to help them, they'll see thousands of their citizens strewn around the place?

If they offed Trudeau and his yes-men they would probably be considered heros. But if they overstay their welcome they will get blockaded until they run out of food and weapons.

 

[Skitarii]

Quick question.

If America sent an envoy to say, Canada- a train load of American marines, who walk into parliament in some big stunt. What would Canada do?

Would Canada slaughter them all, demanding more blood for the blood God, knowing full well that by the time anybody tries to help them, they'll see thousands of their citizens strewn around the place?

Trudeau would kill them with MAID

 

[Doctor Love]

If they offed Trudeau and his yes-men they would probably be considered heros. But if they overstay their welcome they will get blockaded until they run out of food and weapons.

So, using this logic - with the one exception of Poland, after ten years or so of "arrest those who disagree" and constant shitflinging from our politicians, what would the reaction be to Russians in say, Berlin?

 

[IKOL]

have you considered that you may just be retarded?

>britbong
Goes without saying, hermano.