Argue with vatniks over trains

[skunt]

>britbong
Goes without saying, hermano.

did you mean to quote someone else? i'm not british

 

[IKOL]

how are russians going to make german trains work in wartime when they dont even work in peacetime?

Needless to remind you that we've been called "orcs" so much we've actually inherited WH40k Orks' ways of WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!, so don't assume something broken can get even more broken but motherfuckin' working.

 

[IKOL]

did you mean to quote someone else? i'm not british

No I quoted you, correctly.
@Doctor Love is britbong. so yes, he's genuinely retarded and streetshitterpilled.

 

[Scipio Neomericanus]

Quick question.

If America sent an envoy to say, Canada- a train load of American marines, who walk into parliament in some big stunt. What would Canada do?

Would Canada slaughter them all, demanding more blood for the blood God, knowing full well that by the time anybody tries to help them, they'll see thousands of their citizens strewn around the place?

This is exactly why people are calling you a retard.
Your dumb argument about occupying the government has been addressed multiple times by multiple people. Wouldn't work.

This is also a false equivalency. Replace American marines with Chinese PLA riflemen. Then factor in the likelihood that Canada knows they're coming with ill intent.

Canada would block them in upon arrival, and if the Chinese tried to break through the blockade they would be slaughtered by militarized law enforcement and any other forces that could be raised and deployed in time. Any country would do this. Whenever there's a terrorist attack, do nations ask penance from the terrorists? Do they surrender to the terrorists?

 

[SilentDuck]

Can't remember the ww2 fighter/bomber model but the one with 4 .50 cal guns

That one seriously fucked up Hitler's trains, armored trains and rail and went through them like butter.

Not sure how a Vatnik train becomes unstoppable 75 years into the future. Would it be cool to have Vodka powered surprise train threaten all of continental Europe and a montage of stops and each nation falling one by one to this shambling menace somehow, yes. Dear god yes. But I don't see it getting 10 miles into defended territory unless those standing armies are just as fascinated to see what it can do and let it run.

 

[Doctor Love]

This is exactly why people are calling you a retard.
Your dumb argument about occupying the government has been addressed multiple times by multiple people. Wouldn't work.

This is also a false equivalency. Replace American marines with Chinese PLA riflemen. Then factor in the likelihood that Canada knows they're coming with ill intent.

Canada would block them in upon arrival, and if the Chinese tried to break through the blockade they would be slaughtered by militarized law enforcement and any other forces that could be raised and deployed in time. Any country would do this. Whenever there's a terrorist attack, do nations ask penance from the terrorists? Do they surrender to the terrorists?

China isn't next door.

Russia can infact bring the hurt down on European countries. European countries who cannot defend themselves from it.

America has proven ineffectual as a counter. There is nothing actually stopping Russia from just walking in and pushing the Americans out - and the thing is, they wouldn't be wrong to do so. Hell, they could probably get the Europeans to do it on their behalf if they were convincing enough.

Can't remember the ww2 fighter/bomber model but the one with 4 .50 cal guns

That one seriously fucked up Hitler's trains, armored trains and rail and went through them like butter.

Not sure how a Vatnik train becomes unstoppable 75 years into the future. Would it be cool to have Vodka powered surprise train threaten all of continental Europe and a montage of stops and each nation falling one by one to this shambling menace somehow, yes. Dear god yes. But I don't see it getting 10 miles into defended territory unless those standing armies are just as fascinated to see what it can do and let it run.

Okay. Who has these, exactly?

Which European country is chomping at the bit to dive headfirst into a meatgrinder to appease the American foreign policy? Thirty years ago, several NATO members were part of the USSR. Do you think Estonia is just eager to start throwing its entire population into a meat grinder to protect "Western values"?

Pragmatically speaking, our entire defense against Russia has become "Please be gentle" and pray that America actually shows up.

The train isn't meant to be bulletproof. It's meant to be "Holy shit, we didn't think they'd actually invade"

 

[SilentDuck]

Okay. Who has these, exactly?

Which European country is chomping at the bit to dive headfirst into a meatgrinder to appease the American foreign policy? Thirty years ago, several NATO members were part of the USSR. Do you think Estonia is just eager to start throwing its entire population into a meat grinder to protect "Western values"?

Pragmatically speaking, our entire defense against Russia has become "Please be gentle" and pray that America actually shows up.

The train isn't meant to be bulletproof. It's meant to be "Holy shit, we didn't think they'd actually invade"

I don't think 50 cal was banned or anything past ww2 friend.

 

[Doctor Love]

I don't think 50 cal was banned or anything past ww2 friend.

Not banned. As in, do you think that the actual people who make that call - in their own country - are going to fire the first shot, in the full knowledge that they just signed the death certificates of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of their own people?

Let's say, Germany is the target - Russia loads up a fuck load of soldiers onto trains and just passes through to the Ramstein base in Germany. Would anybody actually stop them? Would they have the logistical and political ability to fire at that?

You come across like someone saying "Well if I was in a mass shooting, I would fight him!"

Yes, technically, if you tackled a school shooter you could probably disarm him. It's not like it ever really happens, though.

If every child in the school charged them and stabbed them with pencils, they would likely fail to kill a single person.

Doesn't happen that way in reality, though. And I genuinely believe that, if pushed, European countries would literally let Russia transport weapons through them to other EU countries.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

America has proven ineffectual as a counter. There is nothing actually stopping Russia from just walking in and pushing the Americans out - and the thing is, they wouldn't be wrong to do so. Hell, they could probably get the Europeans to do it on their behalf if they were convincing enough.

Russia failing to take Ukraine for two years, but once they hop aboard the magic rail road, and spread their forces unbelievably thin to take literally all of mainland Europe instantly, that's when Russia will have the fighting power to push out America?

And you think the Europeans will get rid of Americans, but they wouldn't be willing to fight back against Russians that just showed up in their capitols, completely separated from any supply line?


You need to see a proctologist, because your head is shoved firmly up your own ass.

 

[AgendaPoster]

I think trains should just commit 41%

 

[SilentDuck]

Not banned. As in, do you think that the actual people who make that call - in their own country - are going to fire the first shot, in the full knowledge that they just signed the death certificates of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of their own people?

Let's say, Germany is the target - Russia loads up a fuck load of soldiers onto trains and just passes through to the Ramstein base in Germany. Would anybody actually stop them? Would they have the logistical and political ability to fire at that?

You come across like someone saying "Well if I was in a mass shooting, I would fight him!"

Yes, technically, if you tackled a school shooter you could probably disarm him. It's not like it ever really happens, though.

If every child in the school charged them and stabbed them with pencils, they would likely fail to kill a single person.

Doesn't happen that way in reality, though. And I genuinely believe that, if pushed, European countries would literally let Russia transport weapons through them to other EU countries.

Before proceeding I need to know if the mobiks have mounted the moving train, and are hoisting their AKs with great confidence and menace signifying it's clearly an invasion or will it be more discrete?

 

[Doctor Love]

Before proceeding I need to know if the mobiks have mounted the moving train, and are hoisting their AKs with great confidence and menace signifying it's clearly an invasion or will it be more discrete?

Hmmm discrete, it's a sealed European style train, so they're sat on the comfy soft chairs staring out the window.

Russia failing to take Ukraine for two years, but once they hop aboard the magic rail road, and spread their forces unbelievably thin to take literally all of mainland Europe instantly, that's when Russia will have the fighting power to push out America?

And you think the Europeans will get rid of Americans, but they wouldn't be willing to fight back against Russians that just showed up in their capitols, completely separated from any supply line?


You need to see a proctologist, because your head is shoved firmly up your own ass.

You mean... the largest and most fearsome army in Europe, with support in the high billions, modern weapons pouring in, satellite surveillance from the USA - and they managed to formally annex it.

Is Germany somehow a harder Army than Ukraine in your head?

 

[Whatevermancer]

Dude! Dude! I have an even better idea!
What if... Russia just gets the troops on a plane and lands it in Berlin? They will never see it coming!

Seriously, though, your plan will be thwarted by a switch being turned remotely or a mechanic screwing a derailer onto the track. And even if it works, how is it supposed to make Europe reject USA? By installing a puppet government that everyone knows is illegitimate, so nobody gives a shit what it has to say? And making other countries hate you even more, so they side with the USA?

 

[SilentDuck]

Hmmm discrete, it's a sealed European style train, so they're sat on the comfy soft chairs staring out the window.

Where are the officers? Are they haphazardly trying to maintain discipline in an excitable ruckus even though they themselves are visibly excited too by the potential margin of victory with a secret vodka train sneak attack? Or are they in the sleeper cars having tea and grimly discussing how many men they expect KIA and whether they will need to get more men somehow before moving on to conquer the next slumbering euro nation that never saw this coming? What is the rank break down? Single colonel in charge that no one has ever seen or heard of before or will he a be a popular and respected figure among the men and officer class? Perhaps someone's drunken nephew that the other brass is hoping does not survive this attack?

Have all the complimentary rail travel sized bags of crisps been eaten yet or are they too different from the simple potato for the average conscript except for a few weirdos who like them so much they are emptying their packs of essential goods, sleeping bag, toiletries, etc so they can fill them to the brim with this foreign delicacy... spilling out at the most inopportune moment as the rest of the squad shakes their heads?

Any conscripts carefully writing a letter back home to girlfriend he hopes to marry if this all works out that will one day be framed and put in Motherland's finest war history museum as he goes on to conduct locomotive warfare so incredible he will get at least his own single episode in a 10 part documentary series the BBC is forced to broadcast?

Is the bar car at all safe???

Will this uncuck Britannia once and for all? Perhaps it goes the other way, and America realizes how undefeatable this single train is and opts for a non-aggression pact leaving King Charles cucked4life again. Sitting in the palace corner. Dick in hand, but finally crown on head. Mummy never said it would be like this and my son who won't talk to me is still fucking a woman that has probably burned more coal then 10 Russian coal-cars. Now all that mad shit those roundheads talked to Russia is a problem and I can hear that train-a-comin.

 

[Doctor Love]

Dude! Dude! I have an even better idea!
What if... Russia just gets the troops on a plane and lands it in Berlin? They will never see it coming!

Seriously, though, your plan will be thwarted by a switch being turned remotely or a mechanic screwing a derailer onto the track. And even if it works, how is it supposed to make Europe reject USA? By installing a puppet government that everyone knows is illegitimate, so nobody gives a shit what it has to say? And making other countries hate you even more, so they side with the USA?

The plane route would work, too, actually - but unlike the train, you don't have the same "Trolley problem" - if you manage to stop the plane, it goes down and they all die. With the train, if it stops, it's still full of soldiers.

It's called "calling a bluff"

I, for one, know full-well that if Russian troops started firing at British soldiers, the Army would fight well, briefly, until the losses start mounting. Then it would all come back to "American backing" - and Parliament trying to urge a ceasefire.

What mechanic is this? By the time the train has been detected, and you find a mechanic, a derailer, the correct screwdriver and the correct part of the track - it will be hundreds of miles inside the territory. Is there some emergency mechanic who runs along the rails like Subway Surfer to stop unauthorised trains? And what then? Arrest the soldiers? There's hundreds of them, with weapons and RPGs. Is there a force, ready, to actually take them out? In the UK, the armed police are only a few thousand at any one time - scattered across the entire country.

So what do you do once it has been derailed? Arrest the hundreds of armed Russian soldiers?

This would be ten times as strong for most European countries, who cannot stomach the losses Russia has been facing for two years straight. Flat-out, the only country which would even fight when fired upon is Poland.

The German Bundeswehr doesn't have any ammunition, Slovakia and Czechia likely don't want to bury their entire population within a week, or start throwing middle-aged men to defend the cities. France isn't going to start lobbing nukes and risk getting nuked back, and neither is the UK.



And it wouldn't need a puppet government either. Just a signature and the pressure to force the American bases to fuck off, like they did in Afghanistan. Leaving their equipment behind and saving themselves, like they have before.

Will this uncuck Britannia once and for all?

No. No it will not.

The soldiers are not haphazard, they are trained, experienced soldiers, though. They are excited, since after spending two years in a marshy hellscape in Ukraine, they are now passing through the glamour of European cities, guns in hand. They are confident, and although the officers have doubts, they are more certain than most posters in this thread - they have seen the endless "Slava Ukraine!!!" empty shows of support from Europe. From their perspective, it is very unlikely they will see combat, here - so they need disciplined soldiers who won't empty their magazines at the first opportunity. They have seen the videos of the Bundeswehr fighting with broomsticks, and are very well aware that most young Europeans would rather suck eachothers cocks than face them in battle.

The rank breakdown is quite horizontal - all of the soldiers on-board are volunteers, disciplined, well-fed and intelligent. All of the officers can speak English and some can speak German, Polish, Czech, Slovak etc - they are professionals, not tourists. If a group of randomers somehow walked in on them, they would be turned back in their own language, not shot or punished.

The officer in charge is with them - not a bloodthirsty combatant, but somebody from an intelligence corp, who has the clear direction to "make them willing to negotiate for peace"

The bar crisps have been devoured, but the alcohol has been stowed into bags for later. They are unsure if they may need to occupy buildings within the target city, so they are preparing for either.

Now all that mad shit those roundheads talked to Russia is a problem and I can hear that train-a-comin.

This will be the most likely outcome. Politicians in the UK blaming eachother, staring at the ground as they realise that their bluff has been called out - Europe is not prepared for war. We haven't send soldiers into Ukraine - despite everything - and despite sending so many weapons, Russia is coming out on top. Is there some magical line which we haven't already crossed? From Russia's perspective, we are at war with them.

 

[SilentDuck]

Gentleman: We finally have a plot for RED ALERT 4

 

[Doctor Love]

Gentleman: We finally have a plot for RED ALERT 4

That's exactly right.

I have no idea why this seems so crazy to so many.

We have just spent two years dumping massive amounts of advanced weapons, with the express intent to "Kill as many Russians as possible" and sanctions to "make the Russians suffer"

They are not going to let us just chill at home safe and sound, especially since they've spent the last two years in trenches. They see straight through the illusion now, and know that Europeans - who have done everything they can to avoid sending troops into Ukraine - are afraid of taking losses.

 

[SilentDuck]

That's exactly right.

I have no idea why this seems so crazy to so many.

We have just spent two years dumping massive amounts of advanced weapons, with the express intent to "Kill as many Russians as possible" and sanctions to "make the Russians suffer"

They are not going to let us just chill at home safe and sound, especially since they've spent the last two years in trenches. They see straight through the illusion now, and know that Europeans - who have done everything they can to avoid sending troops into Ukraine - are afraid of taking losses.

Educational problem. In the colonies we are taught we did our part + 'Merica + RAF/radar + 'Merica's new airborne tactics and then (??) winter on the eastern front and pictures of unwinterized jeeps stuck in the snow. Hitler mad, Hitler crazy, Hitler on meff, Hitler had a syphilitic brain. etc.

Not say a broader reality that Russians are fierce lunatics and will fight like dogs in trenches, in the snow, in the streets or anywhere just for the sake of fighting and couldn't care less how many Russians get killed in the process. Zero credit given or attention paid. The rape of Berlin must have been a figure of speech, etc.

Easy to talk shit from the other side of the Atlantic at what is now the world's largest land army... no idea why anyone in marching or driving distance would.

 

[Whatevermancer]

What mechanic is this?

A regular one, railways employ tons of mechanics to inspect/repair/do whatever on the tracks and they're stationed at various junctions and depots that the train will have to pass. Their equipment includes portable derailers, that can be installed on the track manually. Since the train can't turn anywhere, they can predict where it's headed and install derailers hours ahead of time.

And what then? Arrest the soldiers?

To begin with, some of them will already be injured or dead from the crash. And then... I dunno, deal with them the same way you would if they were marching across the border on foot. Hell, since your plan hinges on the assumption that EU won't have the manpower/equipment to fight them, why is the train necessary? Just let them cross the ukrainian-slovak border and capture the nearest town.

 

[Doctor Love]

A regular one, railways employ tons of mechanics to inspect/repair/do whatever on the tracks and they're stationed at various junctions and depots that the train will have to pass. Their equipment includes portable derailers, that can be installed on the track manually. Since the train can't turn anywhere, they can predict where it's headed and install derailers hours ahead of time.

To begin with, some of them will already be injured or dead from the crash. And then... I dunno, deal with them the same way you would if they were marching across the border on foot. Hell, since your plan hinges on the assumption that EU won't have the manpower/equipment to fight them, why is the train necessary? Just let them cross the ukrainian-slovak border and capture the nearest town.

Hours ahead of time - within 2 hours they would need to stop the train entirely before it hits Warsaw, or Bratislava. Trains are fucking fast.

But okay - they manage it all within 1 hour. Now, it's only Lublin, a major city (not the capital) which now has hundreds of heavily armed Russian soldiers.

And your railway engineer, who is obviously able to handle the intense pressure of having to jump from a vehicle, climb over the barriers, crawl to the track, install a derailment and retreat while under unimaginable pressure - all within around 30 seconds - all of which must occur within 2 hours of the train crossing the border.

Why are you struggling so much with this basic concept? Europe is not full of combat ready, experienced soldiers. What you are asking is for, effectively, a random Polish man who has had absolutely no combat training to jump infront of a fucking troop train and try to derail it. Replace this with Slovakia, or Czechia or Austria or Hungary - why do you have this delusion that Europeans are just eager to fucking die because Joe Biden says so?


I am trying to picture some poor man in a Hi-Vis being called by the NATO command, and a conversation like this:

"Jan, we have an unidentified train approaching. Have you tried communicating with them?"

"Nie, what do you mean? My shift is over soon, so let's make it quick"

"Well, we fear they may be invading troops. So we need you to climb down onto the track and install a derailer. You have like 5 minutes and 30 seconds. So you need to install it and RUN. Because when that train comes FLYING OFF THE FUCKING TRACKS, hundreds of injured Russian soldiers will come out and they will beat you to death in the gravel and dirt. They will make you dig your own grave and pour your remains into it. And you need to do this because it is your duty as a railway engineer. Sacrifice yourself for us, Jan. I need you to do this."
[beep]
"JAN??? JAN I NEED YOU. THIS IS WHAT NATO MEANS JAN! IT MEANS YOU DIE WHILE AMERICANS DON'T, THAT'S THE DEAL!"