US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
remember this post.
No, I don't think I will.

Between you creating an account to post these spergy tangents, and the horribly dated memespeak that screams "I'm at least 45", I wouldn't have even batted an eye.
But it was the fact that all was said and done with a Spider Jerusalem profile pic that knocked the laughter out of my lungs.
How is it that anytime anyone on any platform posts or reps Transmetropolitan, it's always some autist going on some self-righteous diatribe that nobody cares about or agrees with.
I have no idea what it is about Transmetropolitan that attracts these types of derelicts; but fuck me, is it a universal constant
 
So Fredrick got his hands on a video of an interview Jim did in the wake of the Christchurch stuff:

View attachment 984570
(https://archive.li/xz1bU)

Gotta hand it to him, Fredrick wasn't kidding when he says it's hilarious. Here's the vid, uploaded for posterity. Timestamps are right below.
View attachment 984579













00:00 Diana Prince from the GoldWater interviews Jim Watkins after the March 16 Christchurch attack
00:50 Question 1: "Can you explain what 8ch.net really is?"
01:00 Jim describes bulletin board systems. He's a big fan of Star Trek.
01:35 Apparently Diana "had a board on 8chan" too?
01:50 "8ch is like a living, and breathing, Wikipedia-style thing but it's more lively."
02:05 Question 2: "What drove you to buy and own 8ch.net?"
02:10 "8ch.net just kind of landed in my lap"
02:30 Question 3: "How do you feel about Muslims?"
02:35 Jim loves Muslims! He's been to Abu Dhabi, prayed at the mosque...
02:50 "Abu Dhabi—" "You know what I like the most about Muslims?"
03:05 Diana straight-up deadpans to the camera as Jim prattles on about how tolerant Abu Dhabi is
03:45 But there are some places in Abu Dhabi where they don't 'tolerate' wearing a bikini, Jim.
04:00 Question 4: "8ch.net has been dubbed as a haven for extremists. Is it?"
04:10 "A lot of their extreme talk is actually some of the most protected speech in America"
04:55 Question 5: "Jim, are you a white supremacist?"
05:05 "No I'm not a white supremacist, that would be...like...that's silly."
05:25 Diana's done her Internet research. "Jim, are you a Jew?"
05:35 No, Jim's a Lutheran Christian, actually.
05:45 Question 6: "Do you think we're having a war on religion?"
06:10 "Yes." And when Jim was a kid, the Catholics/Protestants/IRA were the extremists!
06:30 "Christians are killing the Muslims, and Muslims are killing the Christians...it's not right!"
07:00 Question 7: "How do you feel about your name being involved in the shooting?"
07:10 "They're making me notorious"
07:45 "[He] livestreams it on Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook. How come we're not name-dropping him?"
08:05 Jim has friends of all colors and creeds! "My company's a rainbow!"
08:15 "And you know how they're always talking about women in programming?" Jim's company is 50:50!
08:50 Jim's a populist. A populist! He's a normal guy!
09:00 Diana notes that some on 8chan don't like Jim. "It's like biting the hand that feeds you, but they're kids"
09:30 Jim's a gamer.
09:40 There's also a music board, and a pen board, and Jim's a big fan of pens...
09:50 And Jim is not anti-semetic. In fact, his first employer was Jewish. Great guy!
10:10 Jim never worked for Boeing, but his family did/does
10:30 Question 8: "Should we really be calling [immigrants] 'aliens'?"
10:40 "Yeah! Let's call a spade a spade! F**k you!" Jim flips the camera the bird
11:30 Jim doesn't subscribe to Pewdiepie, apparently.
11:45 Diana thanks Jim for his 'insight', tries to wrap up the interview
11:55 "Sorry I lost my temper" says Jim, as he recommences his tirade
12:05 Jim owns a hobby farm. You know what Bezos does for a hobby? Bezos builds spaceships!
12:30 Diana wraps up the interview, followed by a minute and a half of nothing.

It's funny for sure but anyone who has followed Jim for any time will just see this as more of the same. The man is a sperg no doubt about it. But hotwheels posting this just reveals how fucking obsessed he is with him and says more about him than Jim, in my opinion.
 
It's funny for sure but anyone who has followed Jim for any time will just see this as more of the same. The man is a sperg no doubt about it. But hotwheels posting this just reveals how fucking obsessed he is with him and says more about him than Jim, in my opinion.
Oh for sure, but I figured I'd give props where props were due. I got a good few laughs from the vid, and Hotwheels is the reason I could even watch it. "Even a broken clock" etc etc.

Well, Fredrick is more of a broken record than a broken clock, anyway. Speaking of, looks like we're headed into the Russia arc of his nonstop crusade against 8chan:

8chan_russia1.png

(https://archive.li/uYzaV)

8chan_russia2.png

(https://archive.li/EH6VP)

8chan_russia3.png

(https://archive.li/2Rzsv)
Code:
[This letter is a draft - I have not sent it yet for reasons mentioned in my tweet that links to this letter.]

To: abuse@selectel.ru
Subject: [URGENT] Terrorist website, 8KUN.NET, banned by many companies worldwide, using your network

Domain in question: SOON.8KUN.NET, 8KUN.NET
IP in question: 31.184.254.246

Dear Sir or Madam,
 
In 2019, three terrorist manifestos were uploaded to 8chan. The terrorists in Christchurch, New Zealand, Poway, California, and El Paso, Texas, used 8chan to upload their manifestos. Between all three attacks, over 70 people died.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/
 
As a result, 8chan was removed from many major American networks. It was deplatformed by Tucows, CloudFlare and Epik in August; and from Zare (UK) as "8kun" in October.
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

All competent observers agree that 8kun is no different than 8chan, and is a bad faith rebrand to try to evade bans.
 
https://www.cnet.com/news/controversial-site-8chan-tries-to-return-under-8kun-name/
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmj8y4/inside-the-war-to-kill-off-8chan-and-crush-qanon
 
On the 14th of October, a leak showed that 8kun is no different than 8chan: http://archive.is/GqJpD
Their FAQ page is also barely different: http://archive.is/jCEX0
 
Since then, 8chan's owner, Jim Watkins, and his son, Ron Watkins, have become more and more desperate to find a host. Chinese hosting companies Alibaba and Tencent both said "no" to 8chan under the name "8kun" as well.

I would also like to inform you that 8chan is banned in Russia. Under the direction of Jim Watkins, its owner, I, as its then-administrator, told Roskomnadzor that I would not delete content to get it unbanned; this happened in 2015. This email shows 8chan's clear disdain for Russian law, telling Roskomnadzor to "fuck off". As I've already shown, 8kun has been recognized by those with common sense to be a way to evade bans, as a bad faith rebrand. It is likely, especially given the new internet laws enacted by the Russian legislature, that 8kun would be quickly banned as well; it may even be seen by Russian authorities as an attempt to evade the ban Roskomnadzor placed upon it.

http://archive.is/Fl4OM - Tweet of 6 April 2015 from @infinitechan

Their account in your systems may be under the name "Nick Lim". Mr. Lim founded BitMitigate, and has a history of fraudulently opening new accounts to evade bans - Alibaba tells me that he opened at least five accounts to evade bans they placed on him. Other possible names are "Ronald Watkins", "Riley Park", "Tom Reidel" and "James Arthur Watkins".
 
They are now trying to use your network as their host. I hope that you will not allow them to, and will show them the door, as others have.

Best,
Fred Brennan

8chan_russia4.png

(https://archive.li/lnCaW)
 
Oh for sure, but I figured I'd give props where props were due. I got a good few laughs from the vid, and Hotwheels is the reason I could even watch it. "Even a broken clock" etc etc.

Well, Fredrick is more of a broken record than a broken clock, anyway. Speaking of, looks like we're headed into the Russia arc of his nonstop crusade against 8chan:

{rest of post)

Alright, this is sliding into "I'm deeply resentful Jim never offered to pound my weird mis-shapen glass-dwarf boipussi" territory.
 
Given the fact that the Russian mafia is often involved in sleazy internet practices like spam, and it looks like 8kun is turning to using Russian servers previously used for spam, is Frederik now tempting the fate of Russian mobsters?

One hopes. That would be entertaining.
 
Apparently they got Russian Internet hosting provider Selectel to take down 8kun.net now too:

selectel1.png

(https://archive.li/l6e9k)
Code:
[An English version of this letter is below.]

кому: abuse@selectel.ru
тема: [СРОЧНО] террористический сайт 8kun.net, забаненный многими компаниями на западе, использует вашу сеть/мощности

домены: SOON.8KUN.NET, 8KUN.NET
IP: 31.184.254.246

уважаемый/ая!

в 2019-м году три манифеста террористов были выложены в общий доступ на 8chan. Террорист из Крайстчёрч (Christchurch, New Zealand), Поуэй (Poway, California) и Эль Пасо (El Paso, Texas) использовали 8chan, чтобы выложить свои манифесты. В этих атаках погибло более 70 человек.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/

В результате этого 8chan был забанен многими американскими сетями. Он был лишен платформы Tucows, CloudFlare и Epik в августе, и английским Zare уже в качестве 8KUN в октябре.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

Компетентные наблюдатели согласны с тем, что 8KUN - то же самое, что и 8chan, и очень недобросовестно с их стороны менять бренд, чтобы избежать бана.

https://www.cnet.com/news/controversial-site-8chan-tries-to-return-under-8kun-name/
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmj8y4/inside-the-war-to-kill-off-8chan-and-crush-qanon

14-го октября утечка показала, что 8KUN - то же самое, что и 8CHAN
http://archive.is/GqJpD

их FAQ мало чем отличается
http://archive.is/jCEX0

С тех пор хозяин 8CHAN Джим Уоткинс (Jim Watkins), и его сын, Рон Уоткинс (Ron Watkins), отчаянно ищут новые места для хостинга. Китайские провайдеры Alibaba и Tencent отказали 8CHAN'у под видом 8KUN.

Я хотел бы вас проинформировать, что 8CHAN забанен в России. По приказу Джима Уоткинса, хозяина, я, тогда администратор, сообщил Роскомнадзору, что не буду удалять контент, чтобы его разбанить, это было в 2015. Этот имейл показывает полное презрение Джима Уоткинса к законам Российской Федерации - послать РосКомНадзор куда подальше. Как я уже показывал, (переименование 8chan в) 8KUN воспринимается всеми людьми с чувством здравого смысла, как способ избежать бана, как недобросовестный ребрендинг. Скорее всего, учитывая новые российские законы, 8KUN тоже будет достаточно быстро заблокирован, поскольку российские власти могут увидеть в этом доказательство попытки избежать блокировки РосКомНадзора.

http://archive.is/Fl4OM - Tweet of 6 April 2015 from @infinitechan

Их аккаунт в вашей системе может быть под именем "Nick Lim". Мистер Лим основал BitMitigate и он уже неоднократно открывал новые аккаунты, чтобы избежать блокировок. Alibaba сказали мне что он открыл минимум пять аккаунтов, чтобы обойти их блокировки. Другие возможные имена - "Ronald Watkins", "Riley Park", "Tom Reidel" и "James Arthur Watkins".

Теперь они пытаются использовать вашу сеть в качестве хостинга. Надеюсь, что вы не позволите им этого сделать, и выгоните их на мороз, как сделали остальные.

Всего наилучшего, Фред Бреннан (Fred Brennan)

===============================================================================

To: abuse@selectel.ru
Subject: [URGENT] Website used by terrorists, 8KUN.NET, banned by many companies worldwide, using your network

Domain in question: SOON.8KUN.NET, 8KUN.NET
IP in question: 31.184.254.246

Dear Sir or Madam,
 
In 2019, three terrorist manifestos were uploaded to 8chan. The terrorists in Christchurch, New Zealand, Poway, California, and El Paso, Texas, used 8chan to upload their manifestos. Between all three attacks, over 70 people died.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/
 
As a result, 8chan was removed from many major American networks. It was deplatformed by Tucows, CloudFlare and Epik in August; and from Zare (UK) as "8kun" in October.
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

All competent observers agree that 8kun is no different than 8chan, and is a bad faith rebrand to try to evade bans.
 
https://www.cnet.com/news/controversial-site-8chan-tries-to-return-under-8kun-name/
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmj8y4/inside-the-war-to-kill-off-8chan-and-crush-qanon
 
On the 14th of October, a leak showed that 8kun is no different than 8chan: http://archive.is/GqJpD
Their FAQ page is also barely different: http://archive.is/jCEX0
 
Since then, 8chan's owner, Jim Watkins, and his son, Ron Watkins, have become more and more desperate to find a host. Chinese hosting companies Alibaba and Tencent both said "no" to 8chan under the name "8kun" as well.

I would also like to inform you that 8chan is banned in Russia. Under the direction of Jim Watkins, its owner, I, as its then-administrator, told Roskomnadzor that I would not delete content to get it unbanned; this happened in 2015. This email shows 8chan's clear disdain for Russian law, telling Roskomnadzor to "fuck off". As I've already shown, 8kun has been recognized by those with common sense to be a way to evade bans, as a bad faith rebrand. It is likely, especially given the new internet laws enacted by the Russian legislature, that 8kun would be quickly banned as well; it may even be seen by Russian authorities as an attempt to evade the ban Roskomnadzor placed upon it.

http://archive.is/Fl4OM - Tweet of 6 April 2015 from @infinitechan

Their account in your systems may be under the name "Nick Lim". Mr. Lim founded BitMitigate, and has a history of fraudulently opening new accounts to evade bans - Alibaba tells me that he opened at least five accounts to evade bans they placed on him. Other possible names are "Ronald Watkins", "Riley Park", "Tom Reidel" and "James Arthur Watkins".
 
They are now trying to use your network as their host. I hope that you will not allow them to, and will show them the door, as others have.

Best,
Fred Brennan

selectel2.png

(https://archive.li/QQdLg)
 
Either they're just bringing up these IP addresses to watch spitewheels spin his wheels playing whack-a-mole or they're utterly fucking exceptional.
If they're the latter, then they're doing just as much of a good job making RageWheels look just as exceptional for doing this. Still surprised he doesn't try going after Gookmoot and 4Chan as well since most people compared the two sites often.
 
Does anyone here think 8chan's history would make a good movie?
View attachment 985810
I think Porsalin would do a great video on the subject if he ever stops laughing at Owen Benjamin.

Still surprised he doesn't try going after Gookmoot and 4Chan as well since most people compared the two sites often.
Why would he? He is a dishonest little cripple who is constantly lying about everything. Trying to go after 8chan for having the shooter video on it while also posting in this thread.
It's all his obsession with Jim and falling in with Troons and furries on twitter and having nightmares about 8chan.
 
I don't know much about the history of 8chan or Hotwheels beyond the surface level, but I will say this: I'm calling bullshit on this whole "finding God" business. I've seen Christian conversions before, as I'm sure many other people have. This is NOT what they look like.

What, you're not supposed to find Jesus and then spend the rest of your life spitefully seeking revenge against the guy who shut down your kiddy porn boards?
 
I don't think it's necessary to include /intl/, the most they did was spam raids and the people that ran /intl/ are quite autistic.
I still think its necessary to include /intl/ or at least mention it because even though it lasted a pretty short time (IIRC only several months in 2015), it continued to be the unofficial 8chan boogeyman long after it was pretty much obliterated in that counter-raid.

Also did you notice the cripple has "/intl/ was right" in his bio? What does he mean by that?
 
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