US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

  • 🔧 At about Midnight EST I am going to completely fuck up the site trying to fix something.

Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
If you want to fuck with him, just say it.

Oh I will absolutely say it mate. I will even BOLDFACE AND CAPS the shit for you since you seem like you need it --> I WANT TO FUCK HIS SHIT UP. I've really been asschapped with him ever since he stole 2ch, hid behind litigation with yet another shell corp, and then pulled the same trick with Fred. In webdev circles nothing is lower than stealing someone's domain. It makes you a pariah. I have more juicy dirt on Jim but I'll keep it in the vault for now. Truth is old Jim is a simple con, a perverted sexpat with a sordid past, a wolf in sheep's clothing if you will - so we'll happily tuck him into bed without a kiss.

The real heroes in this fight are guys with a history of putting some effort into running these types of services, and I'll point out that null and Fred are both on that list. Actual effort cunts with real sacrifices. You faggots yammer on about muh free speech but I'd love to know how much real effort any of you put into keeping clandestine services like maybe a p2p torrent search engine online, an encrypted pastebin, or other things of that nature. How much free code have you contributed to helping build out tools to aid the struggle. Anything? Ever been to court to defend yourself against a megacorp? I'm sure some of you guys have but remember that wringing your hands on a forum != effort.

So yeah that's it really. Out with the old, in with the new. Stand with the tech-illiterate Boomer slinging centralized 1997 broken web and fake news, I don't really care. When you see the next gen tech that actually delivers what you keep whinging about though, in all its shiny glory, remember this post.
 
You know, I'm going to laugh if this is just some sockpuppet account to troll the thread and it's not actually that guy. Maybe he can partially redeem himself and post some proof on Twitter or something.
Good rule of thumb on KF is to assume no one is who they say they are until verified.

Then again, to get the person of interest tag you need to be, you know, interesting.
 
lol, I was waiting for you to show up @L33TGUY .
If anyone here doesn't know Blockchan has CP on it and the Mods haven't done anything about it since September 18th to remove it. Specifically on its /b/ board.
IMG_20191023_071408.jpg


Some anons on vch.moe found this out and one of them reported it to the IWF (Internet Watch Foundation).
IMG_20191023_071439.jpg

Other people did state the same thing on 4chan's /r9k/ board.
IMG_20191023_072102.jpg

Blockchan currently has three links.
Blockchan.ca
Blockchan.link (redirects to:https://ndm-inf.github.io/BlockChan)
And blockchan is currently ran by three people
@milez
@blockchan /ind_imm
@L33TGUY
And currently has two twitter accounts
Archive of vch.moe thread:http://archive.is/aoTmI
You know, I'm going to laugh if this is just some sockpuppet account to troll the thread and it's not actually that guy. Maybe he can partially redeem himself and post some proof on Twitter or something.
I doubt it, he did the same thing on vch.moe damage controling and his posts on twitter are retarded.
IMG_20191023_072819.jpg

He also posted a lot of cringe on July.world
IMG_20191023_073639.jpg
 
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looks like @L33TGUY has a lot more in the vault than "dirt on jim" amirite?

lmao REAL HEROES DON'T TAKE DOWN CHILD PORNOGRAPHY FROM THEIR WEBSITES

Oh I will absolutely say it mate. I will even BOLDFACE AND CAPS the shit for you since you seem like you need it --> I WANT TO FUCK HIS SHIT UP. I've really been asschapped with him ever since he stole 2ch, hid behind litigation with yet another shell corp, and then pulled the same trick with Fred. In webdev circles nothing is lower than stealing someone's domain. It makes you a pariah. I have more juicy dirt on Jim but I'll keep it in the vault for now. Truth is old Jim is a simple con, a perverted sexpat with a sordid past, a wolf in sheep's clothing if you will - so we'll happily tuck him into bed without a kiss.

The real heroes in this fight are guys with a history of putting some effort into running these types of services, and I'll point out that null and Fred are both on that list. Actual effort cunts with real sacrifices. You faggots yammer on about muh free speech but I'd love to know how much real effort any of you put into keeping clandestine services like maybe a p2p torrent search engine online, an encrypted pastebin, or other things of that nature. How much free code have you contributed to helping build out tools to aid the struggle. Anything? Ever been to court to defend yourself against a megacorp? I'm sure some of you guys have but remember that wringing your hands on a forum != effort.

So yeah that's it really. Out with the old, in with the new. Stand with the tech-illiterate Boomer slinging centralized 1997 broken web and fake news, I don't really care. When you see the next gen tech that actually delivers what you keep whinging about though, in all its shiny glory, remember this post.
 
Oh look at little Columbo here everyone. Babies first investigation, so cute.

Of course some morons posted illegal content but unlike what you just said, It was moderated immediately. However you don't seem to understand what an immutable ledger is and I'm frankly too bored to explain it again. Google it. Regardless of that you should never view the website in Unmoderated Mode like you were. That would be stupid. It's very clearly layed out here: https://ndm-inf.github.io/BlockChan/about

Pay special attention to:
----
What do we moderate?
  • Child sexual abuse material (child pornography) or suggestive images of children
Moderation Mode & Image Downloads
Please notice in the sidebar that 'Downloading Images' and 'Moderation Mode' are both toggled ON by default.
----

In fact the post in question was reported to IPFS but they have not responded via here: https://ipfs.io/legal

So yaaaaa nice flex but I can back all of this up with proof my friend. I can also take my public client offline at any time and everything continues to function. Anyone can download a client and shitpost away on the Ripple blockchain. Hilarious no?
 
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However you don't seem to understand what an immutable ledger is and I'm frankly too bored to explain it again. Google it. Regardless of that you should never view the website in Unmoderated Mode like you were. That would be stupid. It's very clearly layed out here: https://ndm-inf.github.io/BlockChan/about

Well here's another thing I don't understand due to my tiny stupid brain, is how you think this is really the future? You've seen yourself that people aren't going to be comfortable with it. It's dead in the water.
 
Fair 'nuf but I'm not particularly looking for your support Mr. Asshole. If you can't see that Jim/Ron are grifting gullible boomers and soccer moms with this Qanon bullshit, I can't help you. You think he didn't notice the massive spike in traffic on his failing image board? Finally some not-Nazi traffic to work towards monetizing. What's there left to do but shame him and block his effort to continue the scam? Anyways, I certainly don't agree with Fred on everything but we have the same end goal. I'll admit I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw the huffpost piece for the sheer nuclear assblasting of that wretched domain. OOOF.

Anyways, I think we can all agree Fred wins hands down 'Troll of the Decade Award 2010-2020'. Prove me wrong.
Bro you suck off Qboomers daily.
IMG_20191023_080728.jpg

Oh look at little Columbo here everyone. Babies first investigation, so cute.

Of course some morons posted illegal content but unlike what you just said, It was moderated immediately. However you don't seem to understand what an immutable ledger is and I'm frankly too bored to explain it again. Google it. Regardless of that you should never view the website in Unmoderated Mode like you were. That would be stupid. It's very clearly layed out here: https://ndm-inf.github.io/BlockChan/about

Pay special attention to:
----
What do we moderate?
  • Child sexual abuse material (child pornography) or suggestive images of children
Moderation Mode & Image Downloads
Please notice in the sidebar that 'Downloading Images' and 'Moderation Mode' are both toggled ON by default.
----

In fact the post in question was reported to IPFS but they have not responded via here: https://ipfs.io/legal

So yaaaaa nice flex but I can back all of this up with proof my friend. I can also take my public client offline at any time and everything continues to function. Anyone can download a client and shitpost away on the Ripple blockchain. Hilarious no?
So you can't delete illegal material then on your own fucking site.
Jesus Christ.
Also I don't think that's a good excuse and I don't think feds think that 'I can't delete shit from my own site's is a good excuse too.
This is why your site will fail.
 
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Well here's another thing I don't understand due to my tiny stupid brain, is how you think this is really the future? You've seen yourself that people aren't going to be comfortable with it. It's dead in the water.
This absolute fucking moron thinks that because little has been done about the few entries in the Bitcoin blockchain that hold links- the text of links!- to CP as effectively 'comments' on transactions, it is perfectly fine for him and his pedo buddies to create their own blockchain specifically to hold the sort of images that he and Hotwheels like.

I'll give him some credit. The fact that they tag their child porn as 'child pornography, DEFINITELY DON'T LOOK AT THIS AND JACK OFF' later on in the blockchain (hiding it until you tick a checkbox to see it all) might not be a convenient way for them to tag images of interest. It might be a farcical attempt to pretend they actually care about getting rid of CP from there.
 
So you can't delete illegal material then on your own fucking site.
Jesus Christ.
Also I don't think that's a good excuse and I don't think feds think that 'I can't delete shit from my own site's is a good excuse too.
This is why your site will fail.

Blockchains are forever, so anything blockchain-based will have that issue. That's ultimately a problem for the maintainers of blockchains.

For instance, there is arguably CP and other illegal content in the Bitcoin blockchain itself, so theoretically anyone who maintains a full node with the entire chain is duplicating that.

This absolute fucking moron thinks that because little has been done about the few entries in the Bitcoin blockchain that hold links- the text of links!- to CP as effectively 'comments' on transactions, it is perfectly fine for him and his pedo buddies to create their own blockchain specifically to hold the sort of images that he and Hotwheels like.

Generally a focus on the legality of a technology when it is known to be used for illegal conduct is whether it also has substantial legitimate uses. However, the intention of the technology's creator is part of the context in which this is judged, and CP is an issue where authorities have been known to be remarkably harsh in evaluating such conduct.
 
Blockchains are forever, so anything blockchain-based will have that issue. That's ultimately a problem for the maintainers of blockchains.

For instance, there is arguably CP and other illegal content in the Bitcoin blockchain itself, so theoretically anyone who maintains a full node with the entire chain is duplicating that.



Generally a focus on the legality of a technology when it is known to be used for illegal conduct is whether it also has substantial legitimate uses. However, the intention of the technology's creator is part of the context in which this is judged, and CP is an issue where authorities have been known to be remarkably harsh in evaluating such conduct.
Anyone serious about making a platform that operated in this matter would recognize the need to implement a means for pruning the blockchain when content of that type was flagged as illegal as a core feature.

Of course, for Pedowheels associates, that wouldn't be a feature. It'd be a bug.
 
However you don't seem to understand what an immutable ledger is and I'm frankly too bored to explain it again.
[groan] You blockchain faggots are so insufferably predictable and boring. News flash: "immutable ledgers" are not a new concept "invented" by cryptocurrencies and they're not a magic solution to much of anything. This condescending "it's not my job to educate you" shit doesn't help matters, but it's alright since you probably can't adequately explain yourself -- you're just spouting buzzwords anyway.

As for the rest, you don't get to pretend to be some "fighter" for free speech while you're actively trying to shut down someone else's speech, even if your goal is just to "fuck his shit up." You're a hypocrite. Go suck some more dick.
 
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