US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
I think we're going to start looking at parallel internet where you start to look at parallel societies. Cultures just remake themselves constantly, just because you ban this shit doesn't make it disappear and there are stubborn as fuck people who refuse to go away.

I guess you're eventually going to have the 'corporate' internet, sanitized, approved for your use, boring as fuck and then the 'underground' which will exist as a hodge podge, word of mouth communities, small circular and insular, but generally isolated and harder for mainstream news and culture to comprehend, not reliant on the 'corporate' side so its harder to shut down.

Is that not already the case or am I missing something?
 
I think having a webring of smaller sites is a much better situation, although all I care about is /film/.
It also sucks /egy/ is gone especially since the political situation there is getting stranger. I bet both the edgyptian authorities and the Islamists are celebrating the death of 8chan.

What the hell is Hot Wheels up to these days?
mostly going to church
 
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Never trust a cripple

Cripples have no loyalty because they are at the mercy of everyone they meet. That is why disabled people tend to have the reputation of being very agreeable. They can not survive in society by being as unmanageable as an average person.
 
Also did no one tell them QAnon was a hoaxer and admitted as much on the news like 2 years ago
Q told us this would happen. It's a sign. Trust the plan brother. Israel is our greatest ally.

I hope they incorporate some of the more notable features of /qresearch:
- "Thank You Baker" memes comprising 20% of each "bread"
- 20% religious whackjob posts
- eBot's insane posts making up another 20%
- Night Shift memes
- Multiple breads with the same serial # after botched handoffs to new bakers/feds
- Captcha hell
- Freddie and Toots
- etc.
It might be fun to occasionally shitpost and lead people on there though. Those Q boomers are good laughs from time to time.
 
I think we're going to start looking at parallel internet where you start to look at parallel societies. Cultures just remake themselves constantly, just because you ban this shit doesn't make it disappear and there are stubborn as fuck people who refuse to go away.

I guess you're eventually going to have the 'corporate' internet, sanitized, approved for your use, boring as fuck and then the 'underground' which will exist as a hodge podge, word of mouth communities, small circular and insular, but generally isolated and harder for mainstream news and culture to comprehend, not reliant on the 'corporate' side so its harder to shut down.
The problem with going underground is you end up either alongside the creatures that dwell there or as one yourself. Shoving those you disagree with into the dark will end up with them becoming extremists, degenerates, or both. Best to keep all discussion in the light, where common sense can regulate it.
 
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Never trust a cripple

Cripples have no loyalty because they are at the mercy of everyone they meet. That is why disabled people tend to have the reputation of being very agreeable. They can not survive in society by being as unmanageable as an average person.
I wanna cross post this to the russel greer thread so badly
 
Making 8chan a QAnon echochamber will be a sight for sore eyes. As if that silly conspiritard-nonsense wasn't bad enough, it'll now escalate even more.
8chan was the Qanon containment board. It was always one of the top traffic boards there. They got chased off everywhere else and found a home there on their /qanon/ board. Once they got that the Q shit mostly disappeared from other places. They might have been retards but they had the right to exist.
 
Just read the OP, I had heard some stuff about 8chan going under but never really bothered confirming. I have a few thoughts...
I don't endorse mass killings or anything of that nature, sucks that it happens, but that's life. The population is increasing and there will always be outliers, though not all of them will get reported.

The fact they pinned the blame on 8chan and not the guilty individuals isn't fair though. Even if everyone on 8chan was saying "DO IT DO IT DO IT" the person responsible should still be the one held accountable, not the crowd. I know not everyone agrees with that line of thinking, but its my view on the issue. I don't believe in this guilty by association thing. If they wanted to stop these people, like really stop them. Skip the spying on them, skip predicting their move, skip shooting them before they kill someone, and address whatever unrest is causing them to feel that way in the first place.

I think the internet should never be treated like real life. I think everything, no matter how shitty should be allowed to exist online. And if you dont like what causes it, you deal with it in the real world and not online. There is a risk of what you expose yourself to online, there has always been a risk, but now people are trying to protect each other from humanity's real nature and pretending we're better than we are.
 
Urgh. It's disgusting that Jim is being nice to Pedowheels after all he's done.

Also, very pleased about the news of the return of the Q board. It makes me extremely angry that there are people dumb enough to believe in that MIGA conjob, but, that is offset by the degree of salt that will come from the likes of Pedowheels about it. The people who would believe in Q crap would believe in only slightly less insane and untrue conspiracy theories like "Trump is actually building the wall" or "Trump is presiding over less net immigration than Obama" anyway, so in a way it's good that they're being radicalised and exposed to snippets of the real truth. A few of them do actually wake up to reality, having taken a trip through Q on the way there.

I hope they don't intend to moderate it heavily.
 
According to @copypaste, the current CEO of Jim's hosting company (N. T. Tech) met with him and said 8chan is now a defunct entity. Subsequent messages indicate they will return it as a board more specifically catering to #QAnon.

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a 4chan for boomers sounds like the worst website imaginable so I'm 100% on board with it becoming real
 
What the hell is Hot Wheels up to these days?

Pretending to follow Jesus while actually following Judas.

Even when it was the height of chan culture back in the early 2000s, everyone knew certain boards were shitholes. /pol/ is merely one of the worst of the lot. The question was always: "Why do you tolerate them?"

And now these nu-Internet clowns will learn why there is such a thing as a containment board.
 
Not gonna lie, the non-political boards were actually pretty nice places to visit (esp the anime oriented ones), and I genuinely believe that a lot of new users (like myself) came here because of /cow/, even if it was filled with nothing but a-loggers. A big reason as to why 8chan can get pretty autistic (ex a-logging from /cow/) is because of the fact that everyone is anonymous. With no alias to be held accountable to, you basically have free range to say as much stupid shit as possible without being considered a laughing stock by the rest of the community.

Making it more oriented towards QAnon is gonna make the second coming of 8chan twice as exceptional as it was before, with it being more focused towards extreme right-wing politics, it kills off whatever sane and non-political user base it once had.
 
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