US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
That's also possible (and, taking my tin-foil hat off for a moment, probable). 08chan could be mostly safe after all. But all that stuff coming out in early August definitely made me shy about it.

It is not "safe." It is anything in the fucking world but "safe." It is hideously unsafe. You not only download but actually host and serve any content you look at on it. This opens you up to incalculable liability and whoever set it up may even intend to do that.

Do not even think of connecting to this shit without a VPN or whatever you would use to, as the creators themselves said, use for a BitTorrent session. Except this session is full of as much outright criminally illegal content as any malicious actor wants to upload to it.

That's the real problem with using Freenet-like systems, as ZeroNet is. First actual perverts use it for their own shit, but also, they're open to sabotage by actually using shit like that as a weapon.
 
Going back to the original thread focus (Cloudflare shutting sites down), the boomers at /r/The_Donald made an imgur clone called MAGAimg in an attempt to avoid imgur takedowns.

Today Cloudflare booted them off using the catch all "any reason" clause. I wouldn't be shocked if CloudFlare starts booting other sites off as well.
 
Going back to the original thread focus (Cloudflare shutting sites down), the boomers at /r/The_Donald made an imgur clone called MAGAimg in an attempt to avoid imgur takedowns.

Today Cloudflare booted them off using the catch all "any reason" clause. I wouldn't be shocked if CloudFlare starts booting other sites off as well.
Anyone who uses CF's hip new 1.1.1.1 DNS server can't see your link because it's blocking archive.md.
 

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It is not "safe." It is anything in the fucking world but "safe." It is hideously unsafe. You not only download but actually host and serve any content you look at on it. This opens you up to incalculable liability and whoever set it up may even intend to do that.

Do not even think of connecting to this shit without a VPN or whatever you would use to, as the creators themselves said, use for a BitTorrent session. Except this session is full of as much outright criminally illegal content as any malicious actor wants to upload to it.

That's the real problem with using Freenet-like systems, as ZeroNet is. First actual perverts use it for their own shit, but also, they're open to sabotage by actually using shit like that as a weapon.
Holy crap, you're right! Admittedly I was hedging since I haven't really seen anything about the whole 'unintentionally hosting CP' thing since August, but apparently the way 08chan is set up is dangerous as fuck for P2p, since it auto-downloads the thumbnail images:

ohfuck.png

(https://archive.li/NsHwK)

Hey @ScatmansWorld, probably wise to get off of 08chan.

Going back to the original thread focus (Cloudflare shutting sites down), the boomers at /r/The_Donald made an imgur clone called MAGAimg in an attempt to avoid imgur takedowns.

Today Cloudflare booted them off using the catch all "any reason" clause. I wouldn't be shocked if CloudFlare starts booting other sites off as well.
You mean this isn't the Fredrick Brennan vs 8chan/8kun thread?
By default I believe him, but I'm wondering why he hasn't shown us a screenshot of the email he got yet that he just keeps talking about.

EDIT:
Anyone who uses CF's hip new 1.1.1.1 DNS server can't see your link because it's blocking archive.md.
Is this one an issue with Cloudflare though? I remember there was an issue with the archive.is DNS resolution earlier in the year, and CF were adamant that the issue was on the archive.is owner's end.
cf.png

(https://archive.li/n4OUU)

EDIT2: What the hell? The KF proxy auto-corrects archive.is to archive.li? Why?
 
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Going back to the original thread focus (Cloudflare shutting sites down), the boomers at /r/The_Donald made an imgur clone called MAGAimg in an attempt to avoid imgur takedowns.

Today Cloudflare booted them off using the catch all "any reason" clause. I wouldn't be shocked if CloudFlare starts booting other sites off as well.
That seemed to go along with Reddit banning a new Trump meme-sharing subreddit today, that I assume would have used magaimg site heavily. Nice coincidence.
 
Going back to the original thread focus (Cloudflare shutting sites down), the boomers at /r/The_Donald made an imgur clone called MAGAimg in an attempt to avoid imgur takedowns.

Today Cloudflare booted them off using the catch all "any reason" clause. I wouldn't be shocked if CloudFlare starts booting other sites off as well.

They will.

Every day the deepstate seems to turn up the heat significantly on the frog boiler. Their goal is to eliminate and make all protocols, sites and platforms that allow user upload-able content illegal. They have plans for all of us free thinking netizens; kill all of the intellectuals.
 
EDIT:
Is this one an issue with Cloudflare though? I remember there was an issue with the archive.li DNS resolution earlier in the year, and CF were adamant that the issue was on the archive.li owner's end.
cf.png

(https://archive.li/n4OUU)
That YCombinator article is actually quite enlightening. Previous responses I've seen from CloudFlare shills have just claimed that the Archive.Today guy has things set up wrong or something along those lines, which is clearly untrue.

That article puts it in more context, namely that CloudFlare maliciously refuse to comply with universal practices allowing him to deliver load-sharing without relying on nasty hacks that enable spying like... CloudFlare... and so he blocks their shit.

Good on him! CloudFlare is an exceptionally evil organization that is part of an assault on internet freedom, just like PedoWheels writ large.
 
Good on him! CloudFlare is an exceptionally evil organization that is part of an assault on internet freedom, just like PedoWheels writ large.
Cloudflare is literally a mafia. A good post back in 2015 by Krebs on Security talks about this in detail. Cloudflare shields DDoSer services (or "booters") from being DDoSed themselves. Then when you want to protect your website against a cheap DDoSer from Hackforums the best thing to do is to use...Cloudflare itself. They make money from both parties, and them dropping you means you're fucked.

Here's the relevant part of the article, which mentions the old Cloudflare "we don't kick off anyone" policy:
The booter services are proliferating thanks mainly to free services offered by CloudFlare, a content distribution network that offers gratis DDoS protection for virtually all of the booter services currently online. That includes the Lizardstresser, the attack service launched by the same Lizard Squad (a.k.a. Loser Squad) criminals whose assaults knocked the Microsoft Xbox and Sony Playstation networks offline on Christmas Day 2014.

The sad truth is that most booter services probably would not be able to remain in business without CloudFlare’s free service. That’s because outside of CloudFlare, real DDoS protection services are expensive, and just about the only thing booter service customers enjoy attacking more than Minecraft and online gaming sites are, well, other booter services.

For example, looking at the (now leaked) back-end database for the LizardStresser, we can see that TheHosted and its various properties were targeted for attacks repeatedly by one of the Loser Squad’s more prominent members.

The Web site crimeflare.com, which tracks abusive sites that hide behind CloudFlare, has cataloged more than 200 DDoS-for-hire sites using CloudFlare. For its part, CloudFlare’s owners have rather vehemently resisted the notion of blocking booter services from using the company’s services, saying that doing so would lead CloudFlare down a “slippery slope of censorship.”

As I observed in a previous story about booters, CloudFlare CEO Matthew Prince has noted that while Cloudflare will respond to legal process and subpoenas from law enforcement to take sites offline, “sometimes we have court orders that order us to not take sites down.” Indeed, one such example was CarderProfit, a Cloudflare-protected carding forum that turned out to be an elaborate sting operation set up by the FBI.

I suppose it’s encouraging that prior to CloudFlare, Prince was co-creators of Project Honey Pot, which bills itself as the largest open-source community dedicated to tracking online fraud and abuse. In hacking and computer terminology, a honeypot is a trap set to detect, deflect or otherwise counteract attempts at unauthorized use or abuse of information systems.

It's still funny how years ago Matthew Prince stated his company wasn't trying to take the role of an internet censor. That's the biggest issue with the centralization of the internet around a handful of companies, it doesn't protect you from the company's CEO waking up in a bad mood and deciding to wipe you off the internet.
 
Cloudflare is literally a mafia. A good post back in 2015 by Krebs on Security talks about this in detail. Cloudflare shields DDoSer services (or "booters") from being DDoSed themselves. Then when you want to protect your website against a cheap DDoSer from Hackforums the best thing to do is to use...Cloudflare itself. They make money from both parties, and them dropping you means you're fucked.

Here's the relevant part of the article, which mentions the old Cloudflare "we don't kick off anyone" policy:


It's still funny how years ago Matthew Prince stated his company wasn't trying to take the role of an internet censor. That's the biggest issue with the centralization of the internet around a handful of companies, it doesn't protect you from the company's CEO waking up in a bad mood and deciding to wipe you off the internet.
Wait a sec... If Cloudflare hid behind 'Freedom of Speech' in order to justify taking DDOS blood money...

Now that they have clearly violated that policy - to the USA and the world - seems like anyone that has been the victim of a DDOS attack has a justifiable law suit claim.
Cloudflare is now a decidedly partisan player in providing services. Therefore if Cloudflare's patrons conduct illegal or damaging actions, seems like that could be a tacit approval from Cloudflare.

It's like clearing ice in a parking lot. You are 100% liable if you clear ice and someone slips/falls. You are not liable if you do nothing. By kicking off the 'bad actors' from Cloudflare, you could be held accountable for the rest of your clientele.
 
Wait a sec... If Cloudflare hid behind 'Freedom of Speech' in order to justify taking DDOS blood money...

Now that they have clearly violated that policy - to the USA and the world - seems like anyone that has been the victim of a DDOS attack has a justifiable law suit claim.
Cloudflare is now a decidedly partisan player in providing services. Therefore if Cloudflare's patrons conduct illegal or damaging actions, seems like that could be a tacit approval from Cloudflare.

It's like clearing ice in a parking lot. You are 100% liable if you clear ice and someone slips/falls. You are not liable if you do nothing. By kicking off the 'bad actors' from Cloudflare, you could be held accountable for the rest of your clientele.
The Daily Stormer stunt bit them hard in the ass. As the articles on TorrentFreak in particular show, Cloudflare was being targeted by the MAFIAA and porn industry because they were shielding torrent sites. At first they tried the "oh we're neutral" thing they used to pull in the past, except now these groups had evidence that if Cloudflare can take down Nazis they can take down the torrent sites too.

The site even asked this question after the whole 8chan takedown.

There's a reason Cloudflare is seen as sketchy as fuck, especially after BitMitigate lost their providers trying to do the same thing Cloudflare was able to do for years.
 
The Daily Stormer stunt bit them hard in the ass. As the articles on TorrentFreak in particular show, Cloudflare was being targeted by the MAFIAA and porn industry because they were shielding torrent sites. At first they tried the "oh we're neutral" thing they used to pull in the past, except now these groups had evidence that if Cloudflare can take down Nazis they can take down the torrent sites too.

The site even asked this question after the whole 8chan takedown.

There's a reason Cloudflare is seen as sketchy as fuck, especially after BitMitigate lost their providers trying to do the same thing Cloudflare was able to do for years.
It really makes you think that these clearly content-based decisions made by CloudFlare have not caused them to be forced to take down pirated porn and movies.

It's almost like the MPAA and MindGeek are deliberately playing softball- and would prefer that you pay to watch their filth, but if you don't pay and still watch it that's still better than you not watch it.

Incidentally, just been listening to PedoWheels interview with Jared Holt, who sounds like a retarded pedophile who was hit in the head too many times in prison to talk at a normal speed and cadence, as featured on a recent Killstream. The protector of the /hebe/ and /doll/ boards is explicitly targeting BitChute now. Anyone who pretends that he is just individually pissed at Watkins is dreaming, in my opinion.
 
Cloudflare is literally a mafia. A good post back in 2015 by Krebs on Security talks about this in detail. Cloudflare shields DDoSer services (or "booters") from being DDoSed themselves. Then when you want to protect your website against a cheap DDoSer from Hackforums the best thing to do is to use...Cloudflare itself. They make money from both parties, and them dropping you means you're fucked.

It's because it's generally cheaper to hire ClownFlare than to hire someone to just go and kill the fucker who is causing you difficulty. If ClownFlare quits providing that service at a reasonable price, it really does just become cost efficient to just pay someone to go kill Brennan or whoever.
 
It's because it's generally cheaper to hire ClownFlare than to hire someone to just go and kill the fucker who is causing you difficulty. If ClownFlare quits providing that service at a reasonable price, it really does just become cost efficient to just pay someone to go kill Brennan or whoever.
@Null should program a time machine so he can go back and push @copypaste off the roof and prevent any of this from ever happening

and then feed vordrak to the pigs and then come back to the improved present
 
@Null should program a time machine so he can go back and push @copypaste off the roof and prevent any of this from ever happening

and then feed vordrak to the pigs and then come back to the improved present

It would be one of those monkey's paw things where everything was actually worse, though.
 
8kun.works (netsol) and 8kun.top (todaynic) working now. netsol have eject them before on 8kun.us,so is strange choice
What if Watkins was secretly trying to get kicked off of as many domains as possible to help his case? it would make sense then why he is using netsol, because he knows that they'll take him down and he can add one more hosting service to the list.
 
What if Watkins was secretly trying to get kicked off of as many domains as possible to help his case? it would make sense then why he is using netsol, because he knows that they'll take him down and he can add one more hosting service to the list.

This is why I am increasingly suspicious of the behavior of Watkins. It's so obvious he's deliberately choosing shit he'll get kicked off instantly.
 
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