#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

The Coon said:
Yellow Flash responds to say that Liam started this fire.

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Liam did it! What a fucking clown yellow umbrella is! Clearly it was @VIkkiVerse who started this fire.

If I had to guess it is probably this item, which is supposedly a replica gas cannister marked TOXIC. Maybe also could be it's all the Nazi imagery, I remember @COMMI3 MARK had a problem with that also. Was it the same warning given? Sucks if that's true it's shit for IGG to let someone collect thousands of dollars then say it is prohibited. The investors might not be able to get their toy dildos here and have to resort to purchasing vibrators on Amazon. This will further enrage Zack and his loyal followers, as getting phallic toys thru cowfunding and waiting is a better more exciting experience than getting them the same week you order.
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It will be interesting to see whether or not the Von Claus campaign is the second in a series of flagging or someone took issue in particular with a neo-nazi fart huffing cannister being a stretch goal specifically? When Vikki said that there are a shit tonne of campaigns that were in violation of the TOS I assumed that it was purely because they'd failed to deliver the product in the time they said they would? LAAAAATE BOOOKS. But what if the terms of service has a bunch of shit in there about nazi imagery and promoting violence. etc just put there to cover their ass so they can just get rid of anyone or anything that gives them too many headaches?

Mister Dongs said:
View attachment 3158973

For those unfamiliar, this scene takes place in Krakoa, a mutant ethnostate run by a minmaxing Charles Xavier abusing broken game mechanics by coordinating the use of multiple "Omega level" mutant superpowers to build a magical society where biblical miracles are mass produced (including a form of resurrection) in service to a posthuman, post-scarcity nation.

Exodus, the character speaking, is an 800 year old Crusader with an extreme messiah complex and powers to match. He has all sorts of crazy bullshit (including the power to resurrect the dead) who objectively harnesses "the psychic energy" of fervent cult followers who believe in his divinity. Yeah. He himself rationalizes these powers as manifestations of God's will. Put in a way that a lesser writer apparently can't, it's not so much that "Jesus was a mutant" as "What people term 'mutants' are in reality clearly superior beings endowed wih divine powers by God". Lately Exodus is going so far to argue that the inhuman, segregationist Krakoa, taken to its logical extension, is nothing less than God's kingdom being brought about on Earth. Frankly, if you accept everything else in the X-Men universe, this arguably makes a lot more internal sense than the official explanation that all this is the result of "irradiated chromosomes" or whatever.

Both the premise of the world and the character are far more blasphemous in essence than anything approached by these two panels. The problem for Bleeding Fool in this however is that nothing Exodus is saying is new or uncharacteristic about the character's 30-year old publishing history; everything about Exodus was put forward during the edgelord 90s era they so dearly cherish and fight for Marvel to go back to. The other is that Marvel is saying nothing either way about the historicity of Jesus, but simply putting voice to an in-universe character's (heretical) thoughts on the nature of Christ. When these diehard fans get actually get some of what they supposedly want though, they cry about "insulting Christians".

Ironically it was Just Some Guy of Comicsgate who took it where even Marvel wouldn't go and call Jesus a "mythological figure", Marvel didn't.




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This seems like an actually interesting plot point, I feel like it probably has been done before in the X-Men but whatever. Was anyone actually offended about the alleged blasphemy outside of a few tards trying to drum up controversy? It's still funny that people unironically use the term 'SJW' in 2022, let alone people getting upset over blasphemy. Reminds me of Creationists banning pokemon because it has evolution and christian schools banning Harry Potter because of witchcraft. Pretty funny stuff.
 
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Mister Dongs said:
For context,

View attachment 3158973

For those unfamiliar, this scene takes place in Krakoa, a mutant ethnostate run by a minmaxing Charles Xavier abusing broken game mechanics by coordinating the use of multiple "Omega level" mutant superpowers to build a magical society where biblical miracles are mass produced (including a form of resurrection) in service to a posthuman, post-scarcity nation.

Exodus, the character speaking, is an 800 year old Crusader with an extreme messiah complex and powers to match. He has all sorts of crazy bullshit (including the power to resurrect the dead) who objectively harnesses "the psychic energy" of fervent cult followers who believe in his divinity. Yeah. He himself rationalizes these powers as manifestations of God's will. Put in a way that a lesser writer apparently can't, it's not so much that "Jesus was a mutant" as "What people term 'mutants' are in reality clearly superior beings endowed wih divine powers by God". Lately Exodus is going so far to argue that the inhuman, segregationist Krakoa, taken to its logical extension, is nothing less than God's kingdom being brought about on Earth. Frankly, if you accept everything else in the X-Men universe, this arguably makes a lot more internal sense than the official explanation that all this is the result of "irradiated chromosomes" or whatever.

Both the premise of the world and the character are far more blasphemous in essence than anything approached by these two panels. The problem for Bleeding Fool in this however is that nothing Exodus is saying is new or uncharacteristic about the character's 30-year old publishing history; everything about Exodus was put forward during the edgelord 90s era they so dearly cherish and fight for Marvel to go back to. The other is that Marvel is saying nothing either way about the historicity of Jesus, but simply putting voice to an in-universe character's (heretical) thoughts on the nature of Christ. When these diehard fans get actually get some of what they supposedly want though, they cry about "insulting Christians".

Ironically it was Just Some Guy of Comicsgate who took it where even Marvel wouldn't go and call Jesus a "mythological figure", Marvel didn't.




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In greater or lesser ways, the whole industry has been doing that for awhile. You can't outdo the Christian story, nor can you do it justice by throwing spandex over it. Even when chunderheads like Liefeld think they're paying tribute to Christianity by making Christ come down from the cross to beat people up, it simply shows they never understood the religion. On the other hand you can recycle old heresies and put some new paint over it and call it a franchise. The most direct example might be the use of the demiurge in much of Grant Morrison's work.

It might be said that in the ancient past, the best superhero stories were when heroes were forced to go without their special abilities for a time and are made to confront some flawed aspect of their fallen human nature until they repent and are miraculously (plot contrivance) restored to power, often stronger than before. If you took it to the extreme of (temporarily) killing off a hero, you'd have them sacrifice their life to save the day which would in turn inspire his superfriends to continue their work in his honor. In other words, a scuffed replay of the Christian arc on a small scale. The Gold & Silver ages typified this approach but the antihero thing that is nearly 100% of the industry today wasn't perfected until the late 80s.

The typical 90s-to-present-day superpower arms race focuses mainly on creating more powerful villains to the point where the only way for the good guys to win is to harness the villain's power against them, or having the villain turn antihero by trying to use evil against evil. Now the universe has to be a schizo-multiverse where the good guys need to hack the corrupt system just to get one good outcome out of 14 million. And of course when the good guys win, that only opens the door for a greater evil to emerge. It's like an antichrist play on Christianity where cosmic evil is the only real constant and goodness only comes around by some accident of ignorance. The real awe inspiring feats are committed by the bad guys and it's all the good guys can do to stop that last sky beam. Then they die, retire, and let the her-oes take up the mantle.
 
Simply Outplayed-HD said:
This seems like an actually interesting plot point, I feel like it probably has been done before in the X-Men but whatever. Was anyone actually offended about the alleged blasphemy outside of a few tards trying to drum up controversy? It's still funny that people unironically use the term 'SJW' in 2022, let alone people getting upset over blasphemy. Reminds me of Creationists banning pokemon because it has evolution and christian schools banning Harry Potter because of witchcraft. Pretty funny stuff.
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Probably not but it's hard to be offended when you don't read something.
 
Simply Outplayed-HD said:
This seems like an actually interesting plot point, I feel like it probably has been done before in the X-Men but whatever. Was anyone actually offended about the alleged blasphemy outside of a few tards trying to drum up controversy?
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Nah, nothing interesting was ever done with the concept. Exodus was just some red guy that hung out with Magneto the segregationist and supplied some extra doses of zealous fundamentalist Mutant-anity just in case the reader was confused if they were the bad guys. Just one of the many ways X-Men was so shit they're trying to reinvent the entire franchise (again).




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@FROG was having a normal one on Twitter earlier today, reposting some 2017 exchanges with top Marvel Comics writer Dan Slott and stoking the old outrage embers when Valerie D'Orazio, a former comic professional who sued DC Comics for sexual harassment in 2004 and, according to Wikipedia "resigned from DC to be a full time blogger", began replying about how Dan Slott's coworker sexually assaulted her in the office while Slott did nothing (heavily implied to be Dan Raspler, who departed DC Comics for unexplained reasons at around the same time Edit: In a follow up tweet D'Orazio praised Raspler, so the person was not on the art team). A tale as old as time, a comic book autist in a position of power, due to poor social skills and being a sexually pentup nerd, misinterpreted the signals of a young underling as a sign of interest and expressed his own feelings in the form of fondling her tits at work completely unsolicited (a well known icebreaker).

Worse, Dan Slott allegedly knew of this but did nothing. Then again in Slott's defense, D'Orazio herself writes on her Substack about how she was pressured by Raspler to bust Slott's balls and emasculate him at work for being a lazy sack of shit (a recurring problem for Dan Slott). Is it unfair to hold it against Dan Slott for not caring if the bitch breathing down his neck at work maybe got raped a bit by their asshole boss? I'd say the Spider-Man scribe's response (or lack thereof) is understandable, if not a very feminist one.



Valerie's story does not end there however, as she then took this matter to one of the leading figures in the comic book feminist activist scene (either Gail Simone or Heidi MacDonald, but Valerie's use of "Etta" as a substitute name deliberately implies a ginormous fatass, ergo Gail) to go out and cancel the sexual assaulter on her behalf. Instead, "Etta" chided Valerie in Facebook DMs and explained at length about what a great 'progressive ally' Valerie's former boss was and downplaying his actions as simply a lonely sperg looking for love and "tomfoolery" (inappropriate use of archaic slang is pretty much Simone's signature at this point), even though many men were and went on to be cancelled for far less egregious offenses on the basis of mere whispers while D'Orazio was willing to (and did) actually argue she was assaulted in a court of law.

So the nominally feminist and progressive comic book journalism scene had an effective blackout of any mention of the lawsuit and effectively depersoning D'Orazio, which left her with the bitter conclusion that none of these so-called leaders (like Gail) who made their careers on feminist activism actually believed in feminism and were simply using cancel culture as a cudgel to eliminate their rivals in the pursuit of clout and influence.

Valerie is a fascinating case, a liberal woman in comics so completely disillusioned with the performative feminism in the mainstream that she's actually looped all the way around to making overtures to Comicsgate. I believe there's some sincerity behind her grievance, because a woman in comics publicly siding with Frog for any reason, let alone declaring the establishment are the real misogynists, is more or less committing career suicide.


Speaking of comic book activism:



Richard C. Meyer, the man who sparked an uprising on the basis that "fans" don't exist, they are in reality customers and customers are entitled to quality customer service, had a new revelation to impart to the ever-dwindling flock at the Church of Zack. These days it seems some of the faithful are starting to remember through the haze of time something about Meyer putting out hundreds of now privated and removed phone rants about how customers were the key to any successful enterprise, and getting talked down to by a frozen burrito guzzling lifelong deadbeat while waiting years for their outsourced comics doesn't seem like part of that. Well what you aren't understanding that Richard is so nice to explain to you is that you're a backer, and that's totally different than being a customer. So all that talk about customer service? It doesn't apply to the backers, the "patrons" of artiste non-writer, non-artist Richard C Meyer and his GI Joe knockoffs that will, according to him, echo throughout eternity by virtue of their quality.

"But Zack", you might ask the incompetent hypocrite, "don't you sell overprinted stock on Zack Fridays Indiegogos? How is that any different than what Iconic Comics is doing other than people actually want to buy and read Soulfinder and Kamen America?" "Just some of the great comics made possible by crowdfunding" Richard non-answers. And backers are better than being a customer anyway, as Meyer explains. You see, there's no way that Richard can commit to things like bulk orders and economies of scale on these projects without putting in time, money, effort, committment or taking risk on his part, and that's just not going to happen. Things as they are now are great (for him) and asking for more wouldn't be "fun" (for him), so it's pretty much objectively incorrect for any of his customers to say that the current experience of backing Richard's book isn't fun or great. Don't take his word for it, even Kickstarter saying you're wrong (reminder: Kickstarter ejected Meyer from their platform for nonfufillment).


If you take all the risk on yourself, and it's not funny, it's not fun. I don't like it. I can see a trend that is not beneficial except for just bragging rights. "I'm fast." "You're not. I'm fast." "You're fast. I'm faster." You lose a lot when you undo what crowdfunding is. You want to get mad at me? Go get mad at Kickstarter and Indiegogo for very plainly explaining what crowdfunding is. It's not ordering. It's not a race. I like how this says "Crowdfunding is not shopping. It's better." It's, you're a backer, you're supporting a small business. You're a patron of the arts. You're influencing the final shape of the product, the content of it. It's great. It's the best game in town, ever. And these accretions need to be, either removed or just ignored. It's a real basic thing. You can explain crowdfunding to anyone who actually wants to know. If they're going to misconstrue what you say, they're going to do that regardless.
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Just don't use the word "customer".
 
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Reply bug, @Mister Dongs.

Sure, why not, Zack, supporting things on KS or IGG are like supporting small businesses. Saying that, why the fuck would anyone support yours? He’s shown time and time again that he’s shit at this, with mediocre quality, bait and switch art, and frequent nonfulfillment, and he’s acting like because being a backer isn’t being a customer he can do whatever the shit that he wants with your money and you have no recourse because it’s not a store.

It is literally the ur-example of the worst kind of crowdfunding. I was going to say “that isn’t an outright scam” yet looking at his kind of output these days… I can’t tell anymore.
 
I'm sure Zack has referenced the "it takes 10,000 hours to master a skill" meme in his videos, yet somehow he has deluded himself into believing his 5th comic ever will be some timeless masterpiece.

I never bought* a Zack comic because I read his original Riri Williams gag comic and realized he's a sub-amateur level writer. Based on the writing in Riri, I would place him on the skill level of someone who's never read a book before, let alone written one. Granted, people can improve, but it takes practice, and Zack has written five books over the last four years. That's not nearly enough. It would be like learning Spanish by taking one Duolingo lesson a year.

One simple truth emerges from Zack's behavior over the last two years: Mark Waid was right.

Fuck Zack and also fuck Ethan. Release Cyberfrog 2 you fat fuck.

*or "backed" as he would now describe it
 
Mister Dongs said:
For context,

View attachment 3158973

For those unfamiliar, this scene takes place in Krakoa, a mutant ethnostate run by a minmaxing Charles Xavier abusing broken game mechanics by coordinating the use of multiple "Omega level" mutant superpowers to build a magical society where biblical miracles are mass produced (including a form of resurrection) in service to a posthuman, post-scarcity nation.

Exodus, the character speaking, is an 800 year old Crusader with an extreme messiah complex and powers to match. He has all sorts of crazy bullshit (including the power to resurrect the dead) who objectively harnesses "the psychic energy" of fervent cult followers who believe in his divinity. Yeah. He himself rationalizes these powers as manifestations of God's will. Put in a way that a lesser writer apparently can't, it's not so much that "Jesus was a mutant" as "What people term 'mutants' are in reality clearly superior beings endowed wih divine powers by God". Lately Exodus is going so far to argue that the inhuman, segregationist Krakoa, taken to its logical extension, is nothing less than God's kingdom being brought about on Earth. Frankly, if you accept everything else in the X-Men universe, this arguably makes a lot more internal sense than the official explanation that all this is the result of "irradiated chromosomes" or whatever.

Both the premise of the world and the character are far more blasphemous in essence than anything approached by these two panels. The problem for Bleeding Fool in this however is that nothing Exodus is saying is new or uncharacteristic about the character's 30-year old publishing history; everything about Exodus was put forward during the edgelord 90s era they so dearly cherish and fight for Marvel to go back to. The other is that Marvel is saying nothing either way about the historicity of Jesus, but simply putting voice to an in-universe character's (heretical) thoughts on the nature of Christ. When these diehard fans get actually get some of what they supposedly want though, they cry about "insulting Christians".

Ironically it was Just Some Guy of Comicsgate who took it where even Marvel wouldn't go and call Jesus a "mythological figure", Marvel didn't.




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Man, why are the costume designs so fucking garbage? What I was picturing in my head when reading your description of a centuries-old magical crusader was infinitely cooler than… whatever the fuck that is. Seriously, is there a SINGLE aspect of that character design that screams “ancient immortal crusader”?

Also uh, I’m not a huge X-men/Marvel sperg, but isn’t “mutants were created by (little-g) god” basically their canonical origin story? E.g. they were the product of intentional meddling by the Celestials or something similar.

Also lol, the virgin “Jesus was a mutant” vs the chad “Jesus was a Stand user”
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@Mister Dongs

Two words that are poison to any business: unreliability and unaccountability.

Rich Zack Poor Zack brags about how great crowdfunding is for him while confusing the legal obligations of crowdfunding with his moral and career obligations in following through. No, you won't go to jail or be sued by failing to provide the product in a timely manner if at all. That's why you go out of your way to make your projected deadlines because the investor incurs all the risk and if you want their continued patronage, you better make sure you meet their expectations. Once past a failed deadline, the investor starts down the path to "one-time investor" then to "sucker who got swindled" who likely won't even use crowdfunding again. The repercussions of just one late campaign by an irresponsible twit extends to all future creators not just Ya Business Boi.

Shill-pilled simp-pilled Zack is sending out strong messages to his supporters/patrons/investors by way of his (in)actions that he is either lazy, incompetent, a swindler or all of the above. Not only does he not care about what his own backers are saying, he's doubling down on them for being ungrateful ignoramuses! I don't think I've ever seen such a bubblehead more worthy of a stapler suicide in all my life. If this is what he thinks is an acceptable business model, then it hardly needs to be said it's not a business worth backing at all. Any reasonable person would have cause to be tough on him.
 
FROG said:
I’ll release it when it’s done, shithead.
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Then finish it.

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Coming up on a year late. I think people can overlook some of the delay because you slipped Warts And All into the schedule and that's great. Seriously, it's really fun and a fantastic presentation of the material. But other than that it's been Bloodhoney variants and goofy ancillary stuff like toys and All Caps branded underwear.

And the more time spent on Rekt Plant, the later your real magnum ops will be. Reignbow the Brute was projected to ship in December. The last update was a year ago. Why are you still stuck on the violent anthropomorphic animal fad when you are on the cusp of inventing a whole new genre? Reignbow could be the Fight Club of a new generation.
 
Standardized Profile said:
Then finish it.

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Coming up on a year late. I think people can overlook some of the delay because you slipped Warts And All into the schedule and that's great. Seriously, it's really fun and a fantastic presentation of the material. But other than that it's been Bloodhoney variants and goofy ancillary stuff like toys and All Caps branded underwear.

And the more time spent on Rekt Plant, the later your real magnum ops will be. Reignbow the Brute was projected to ship in December. The last update was a year ago. Why are you still stuck on the violent anthropomorphic animal fad when you are on the cusp of inventing a whole new genre? Reignbow could be the Fight Club of a new generation.
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Ethan could hire more than one inker and colorist to crank out these issues instead of leaving them in comic book spergatory.

Mitch "the bitch" breitweiser had success creating books this way, but lost all of his "fans" by being weird as fuck. At least Ethan has the balls to face his critics.

Cyberfrog is his magnum opus so I understand the delay. We can't expect Marvel and DC logistics without expecting their shit quality. When you buy into cyberfrog you buy into Van Sciver, giving him an interest free loan to be creative.

Since he has revealed images of Many completed pages I'm not anxious about whether he's lying or not. He's clearly stretching the truth. His Chris Chan like sense of being persecuted, his failure to understand child abuse. The laziness and fucking off.

This is the guy who casually sings about being butt raped, talks about beatings like normal people beat their kids. No wonder he likes TUG and Slick Jimmy Love so much.

Ethan once said he was a big slick Jimmy love fan. I wish Ethan could spend one day in Jimmy's house of horrors and think the same way about child abuse.

And Yes, I think selling access to your children or setting up godfundme for your God damned mailbox or kids is child abuse because they are going to grow up and find all this shit out about their father and realize he is a terrible person who used them to make money. Pathetic. I'm working on this faggots thread and I have to take breaks because he makes me sick.
 
@Mister Dongs true liberals would gladly side with CG if not for the anti-left rhetoric. They are small guys who shout a huge fuck you at Disney, you can't get more punk than this.

Crescent Fresh said:
Reply bug, @Mister Dongs.

Sure, why not, Zack, supporting things on KS or IGG are like supporting small businesses. Saying that, why the fuck would anyone support yours? He’s shown time and time again that he’s shit at this, with mediocre quality, bait and switch art, and frequent nonfulfillment, and he’s acting like because being a backer isn’t being a customer he can do whatever the shit that he wants with your money and you have no recourse because it’s not a store.

It is literally the ur-example of the worst kind of crowdfunding. I was going to say “that isn’t an outright scam” yet looking at his kind of output these days… I can’t tell anymore.
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YBZ used to fulfill and provide good customer service in the past. But he also stresses about fulfilling his biggesr campaigns, cries like a bitch and is too dumb to realize he is hurting his business. In his own mind he is probably stalling Grand Bizare to make it as good as possible (aka plug the countless plotholes in the finished book) and is frustrating that people just want to read the damned thing.
 
Frog's unfortunately stuck in a Catch-22 here:

To paraphrase him on these draw streams: his books are late because he needs to be on youtube to draw in new customers, and he needs to be constantly drawing in new customers because his books are late.

Part of me understands how he got into the situation; gotta make hay while the sun shines and there's never been any guarantee that 'CG' would be a thing five years from now or even one year from now. Given that, it makes sense to take on as many projects as you can while you can (the warehouse, Creed and Snowman, the toys, etc). But as we're seeing things play out over time and watching who stays and who goes, who shrinks and who grows, it turns short-term capitalization and chasing exposure at the expense of consistency may not be the winning ticket in the long run.

Frog talks about the $250,000 he projects he can make with the Rekt Planet second chance campaign for all the new joiners since Rekt Planet launched in 2020. Unlike a lot of people here, I think he's one the few CGers who is bringing in new people, mainly because he's one of the few people who actually puts in the effort to campaign outside the Comicsgate bubble. $250,000 seems perfectly believable. But I also think those new customers would have eagerly backed it as an add-on for Cyberfrog 3 as well as retained far more customers from his previous campaigns.
 
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