Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

[Amber the Hedgehog]

Arabs hated Aladdin for putting a princess in what was essentially a prostitute’s costume, on top of a handful of straight up racist lines.

I thought that Jasmine being dressed in provocative manner was the point, not a mistake. Most women on the screen are covered up, including her when she escaped from the palace. She is a rebellious but extremely sheltered princess so she pushes boundaries with clothes. Her father lets her get away with dressing like whore because that's where he picks his battles. It's made clear that he isn't exactly sure how to parent her and is extremely concerned about her future. Witch is why he's pushing her to get married and be happy and protected by a good husband.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I'm under the impression that because he's... kinda nuts, the Sultan probably thinks he sees his dead wife in his only daughter. But given she's not allowed to go outside, she probably "gets away" with dressing a bit provocatively like the '80s/'90s teenagers of the time.

Princess Yum Yum dresses similarly, so think it's just the stereotype that was in pop culture at the time as to how Americans perceived Arab princesses.

 

[Trianon]

When you put the identity of a person first and forget everything else that makes them compelling you don't really have much of a story.

It's also hard to tell how much of it is top-down meddling at this point. When you hire true believers who don't know how to write except to check boxes, then no amount of passion and hard work can elevate those stories. They're scared to edit. What made the Renaissance good was that they were hypercritical of each sequence and how it served the story and characters. Katzenberg came into the Beauty and the Beast production and told them they were being indulgent and lazy. So they need someone in charge who can crack the whip on just basic storytelling....... but they can't do that as long as they are afraid they are harshing the diverse vibes.

 

[SpiderBitch]

I feel like the most glaring change in disney is in the non-human characters.

The 2d princesses moved with a bit more personality etc, but they were usually played fairly realistic and stereotypically attractive and dolllike yadda yadda. Most of the fun movement and designs were for the villians that disney doesnt even do anymore.

The non human characters on the other hand were very stylised and full of personality, I mean look at these

Now compare these to the non-human characters from the cgi movies (and thats already ignoring the horrible live action versions)

In tangled, pascal and maximus were fun enough characters, but their designs werent all that special. Just sassy chameleon and sassy horse. Frozen had sven as sassy reindeer, but olaf is decenly unique and has some fun movements due to being a snowman. Moanas pets were also just regular animals, tho tamatoa did look cool. Raya had those ugly sassy dragons. Wish has an ugly sassy goat and that super mario galaxy ripoff star. Encanto has a sassy house ig which was pretty fun but its hard to remember it as a character of its own.



Theyre literally just regular slightly cutified animals but with big eyes and eyebrows and smirks, these shits cant stretch their features into sebastian or donald duck temper tantrums if they tried, even though expressive cartoony cgi is possible. It just feels so safe, boring, bland and corporate.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

I thought that Jasmine being dressed in provocative manner was the point, not a mistake. Most women on the screen are covered up, including her when she escaped from the palace. She is a rebellious but extremely sheltered princess so she pushes boundaries with clothes. Her father lets her get away with dressing like whore because that's where he picks his battles. It's made clear that he isn't exactly sure how to parent her and is extremely concerned about her future. Witch is why he's pushing her to get married and be happy and protected by a good husband.

There's also the possibility that Jafar was mind controlling the sultan at times to allow it so he could get some eye candy.

 

[Kiwisee]

On a whim, I watched someone’s Cam recording of the entire Wish Movie in hopes that maybe the YouTube critics were wrong.

It amazes how the writers accidentally gave King Magnifico a much stronger argument than Asha regarding who gets their wishes granted. Chasing pipe dreams is a surefire path to being crushed by your own ambitions (as can be seen with many Lolcows on this site); especially if they're as unrealistic as flying with birds or being instantly talented at a skill without having to work on it.

Plus, the writers seem to be under the impression that no one would ever wish for anything that would have catastrophic consequences. What if a civilian wished for all the brown people to be wiped out by a disease, for example? What if a civilian wished to become the world’s most feared dictator?

Of course, we have to assume that no one in that entire kingdom would wish for such a thing because that would mean Asha likely just started a precedent for mass destruction.

A talented writer who isn't blinded by corporate ideology would have let all the wishes be granted, and the rest of the movie would be about Asha correcting her mistake, while coming to understand why the king is right. That likely would’ve been the plot had the movie come out in the early 90s, come to think of it. Would've also had a great moral: it's nice to have dreams, but said dreams should be reasonable and attainable.

Not to power level, but one of the most depressed person I've ever met was crushed by the dream of trying to become a famous soundcloud rapper. The part that crushed them was that becoming famous is a matter of luck rather than talent, although talent helps with getting noticed.

Also, look at Chris: he wanted his Sonichu creation to be recognized by both Nintendo and Sega. He wanted the comics to be considered canon in multiple franchises that it touched upon, but he didn't want to accept that it was an unrealistic dream. His comic is famous alright, but for all the wrong reasons.

Come to think of it, the king being a good guy would've actually been a good change of pace from the stupid twist villain trope. And all the problems being caused by a well intentioned heroine would have made for an interesting story.

Alas, I get the feeling that the writers are too caught up in playing it safe to try writing any compelling story. The throwbacks to classic Disney were nice, at least, even if superficial.

 

[Trianon]

being instantly talented at a skill without having to work on it

This struck me as an absolutely insane plot point, too. Like, her ancient grandfather is mad that he didn't get his wish to be a musician? Which he could have just ... done at any time? They had to make a condition of the wishes that they "forget" about them so they lose the ability to either be mad or achieve anything on their own.

A talented writer who isn't blinded by corporate ideology would have let all the wishes be granted, and the rest of the movie would be about Asha correcting her mistake, while coming to understand why the king is right. That likely would’ve been the plot had the movie come out in the early 90s, come to think of it. Would've also had a great moral: it's nice to have dreams, but said dreams should be reasonable and attainable.

I did think they might do this after the trailers because the moral is just so bad on its face. Coming to a middle ground of "we are responsible for our own destinies and dreams, within reason, but if you have the power to help someone out along the way, you should" would have been great. Or "our dreams should be as much about what's best for others as what we want to achieve alone," which would have filtered out any wishes that are just purely selfish or would require someone else to lose something.

 

[Betonhaus]

Alas, I get the feeling that the writers are too caught up in playing it safe to try writing any compelling story. The throwbacks to classic Disney were nice, at least, even if superficial

Wish perfectly sets the stage for a sequel that acknowledges those points. If I could I'd write a fanfic of a Ripley type heroine who enters the ruined kingdom, trying to break an Ella Enchanted type curse/blessing from a foolish godmother, and battling the Mad King who regains his sanity after the fight.

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

Come to think of it, the king being a good guy would've actually been a good change of pace from the stupid twist villain trope. And all the problems being caused by a well intentioned heroine would have made for an interesting story.

This is such a slam-dunk story that still fits current-day sensitivity I don't see how it did not come to be.

You can easily build everyone up as a good guy: the king's obviously great at the king thing in additon to having the common sense of ensuring crazy wishes don't come to pass. The heroine can be established to be popular AND walks the walk in helping others, hence her desire to make everyone's wishes come true. You can even make sure the wishes aren't really evil or bad-intentioned per se, just unfeasible and causing chaos. And I'm no writer, but I'm sure you can still make a big story with stakes from there while ensuring the king, heroine, and anyone else who wants to get things back to normal involved lock hands and everyone, especially the heroine, learns the lesson you espouse with all's well ending well.

 

[Trianon]

Wish perfectly sets the stage for a sequel that acknowledges those points. If I could I'd write a fanfic of a Ripley type heroine who enters the ruined kingdom, trying to break an Ella Enchanted type curse/blessing from a foolish godmother, and battling the Mad King who regains his sanity after the fight.

Ella Enchanted the book is really in the godtier of fairy tale retellings.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

I swear. China and the Middle East markets the only thing stopping Disney from having the frozen sisters dyking each other.

Don't get me started. A couple of my youngest family members already ran into Elsanna art online by accident. The funny/horrifying thing is that Disney blundered into opening that door.

Spoiler: Here be dragons

Incest was hardly unusual for royalty. Elsa's ability to create sentient life out of thin air (Olaf) also makes her a little-g god. Sparking a magic baby in herself or her sister is at least possible. Not to mention she's a walking WMD by Frozen 2 - so if she wants to marry her sister, nobody with a brain is gonna disagree, at least not in public.

I thought that Jasmine being dressed in provocative manner was the point, not a mistake. Most women on the screen are covered up, including her when she escaped from the palace. She is a rebellious but extremely sheltered princess so she pushes boundaries with clothes. Her father lets her get away with dressing like whore because that's where he picks his battles. It's made clear that he isn't exactly sure how to parent her and is extremely concerned about her future. Witch is why he's pushing her to get married and be happy and protected by a good husband.

With no queen, the list of people who can tell the princess "no" without worrying about losing their head is somewhere in the single digits. Also as Jasmine is heavily guarded and in a literal fortress, her father has very little danger of her getting deflowered/knocked up by some random scamp she fell for than Joe Average's daughter.

Even if she pranced around in a bikini on the balcony every morning, nobody with a functioning survival instinct is gonna do more than drool and whistle at the sultan's daughter and only child.

 

[Kiwisee]

This is such a slam-dunk story that still fits current-day sensitivity I don't see how it did not come to be.

You can easily build everyone up as a good guy: the king's obviously great at the king thing in additon to having the common sense of ensuring crazy wishes don't come to pass. The heroine can be established to be popular AND walks the walk in helping others, hence her desire to make everyone's wishes come true. You can even make sure the wishes aren't really evil or bad-intentioned per se, just unfeasible and causing chaos. And I'm no writer, but I'm sure you can still make a big story with stakes from there while ensuring the king, heroine, and anyone else who wants to get things back to normal involved lock hands and everyone, especially the heroine, learns the lesson you espouse with all's well ending well.

Plus, with that kind of story the moral would’ve been “its okay to admit that you're wrong and apologize while rectifying your mistake”. Honestly, it's the type of message that I think kids need to be presented to them more. That its not a state of weakness to admit to being in the wrong so long as you try to fix it.

And the film could’ve ended on reaching a reasonable middle ground. King could've returned wishes that are too vague while advising the dreamer to revise their wish so that it's more grounded and realistic. Asha could also be his apprentice by the end, but with a better understanding of his job/why he doesn't grant all wishes. Especially if, while reversing the chaos he takes on a last-minute mentor role upon realizing that's she's the only candidate who has the potential to help him in this task.

Goddamn, this really could've been a better movie than it was. It really dropped the ball in so many areas

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

 

[Kiwisee]

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

The last genuinely good Disney film was Treasure Planet and I will die on this hill

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

I thought that Jasmine being dressed in provocative manner was the point, not a mistake. Most women on the screen are covered up, including her when she escaped from the palace. She is a rebellious but extremely sheltered princess so she pushes boundaries with clothes. Her father lets her get away with dressing like whore because that's where he picks his battles. It's made clear that he isn't exactly sure how to parent her and is extremely concerned about her future. Witch is why he's pushing her to get married and be happy and protected by a good husband.

This read isn't entirely impossible to project onto the film but it really isn't supported by the story itself. Jasmine isn't a "whore," she just wants to be able to live some kind of life on her own terms, rather than being cloistered in a single building until she can be sold off to some dude she's never met met in order to seal some political pact she has nothing to do with.

The whole "showing skin is liberation" thing is very recent, both for us and certainly for Arab or Persian women of the early modern period. It would be the peak of anachronism for an Arab noblewoman to view a bellydancer's costume as "pushing boundaries" not least because those women were at best exactly as restricted as she was, and at worst effectively sex slaves as they were there to provide entertainment and nothing else.

Jasmine is smart, willful, and tough. She's not a skank. But Disney wanted to do an "exotic Arabian seductress" look and here we are. They pulled the same shit when they used a Playboy model as the body study for Pocahontas.

 

[PizzaPoppa]

The last genuinely good Disney film was Treasure Planet and I will die on this hill

*Chicken Little

 

[madethistocomment]

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

Tangled was the last real good Disney princess movie specifically, but I had a lot of fun with Encanto and I think it's the best movie Disney has put out since 2010.

 

[Coo Coo Bird]

Princess Yum Yum dresses similarly, so think it's just the stereotype that was in pop culture at the time as to how Americans perceived Arab princesses.

One of America's first exposures to "Middle Eastern" culture were the belly dancers (or "hoochie coochie" dancers) at the 1893 World's Fair. They caused great scandal, so were obviously very popular, being a subject of very early Thomas Edison films:

Between this and the popularity of the Arabian Nights, the image of Arabia being a land of glamorous dancing girls and wealthy sheikhs was set. For most of the 20th century, if you asked someone what a Middle Eastern girl would wear, they'd picture this:

The image of a Middle Eastern woman as being covered head to toe so her husband doesn't beat her to death is comparatively very recent and modern. Really, who the hell would want to watch an Aladdin movie that accurately reflected Muslim values? It would have Aladdin having his hand cut off for stealing, Jasmine being married off at twelve and the Sultan not caring because he has thirty kids from ten different women.

 

[SpiderBitch]

Honestly, with the king actually being well meaning and the people just thinking he's evil bc they're idiots just reminds me of that one disney parody from like a decade ago, but played entirely seriously and were meant to side with the lazy asses who could just work for their wishes instead of handing them off??

Just change 'ugly' with hwite

 

[Terrifik]

View attachment 5526792
*Chicken Little

Question for everyone on this thread. What was the last time Disney was fully good in your eyes or at least what was the last good Disney movie you saw?

I will have to agree 2005 Disney

So I lose -UP, Bighero6, Ratatouille, Cars, Rio, Brave, wreck-it Ralph, Moana, Coco, Tangled, before mix-marvel, Live action-Disney Movies, Zootopia,
Wall-e, frozen