Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

[Lone Star]

Hearts is unironically a tragic hero trying to liberate the universes from petulant, incompetent tyrants.

I remember thinking during the Tournament of Power there'd be some sort of plot starting about the mortals getting sick of being the playthings of the gods. Especially with scenes of Universe 9's angel having that smirk when his universe was destroyed, and double especially when the Grand Priest had that blatantly villainous smirk and Goku was glaring up at him. Then it just...went fucking nowhere. I didn't bother to touch the manga of Super, but I've never heard any mention of any sort of "Mortals vs. Gods" plot stirring or anything.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

It warms my heart to see the hate for the dipshit gods in Super. I've said it before, but Beerus is just Frieza with better PR.

All this god talk reminded me of this video. Model sheets? What are those?

Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqtZuHFH0Q&t=9

 

[Gordumb Bumway]

I remember thinking during the Tournament of Power there'd be some sort of plot starting about the mortals getting sick of being the playthings of the gods. Especially with scenes of Universe 9's angel having that smirk when his universe was destroyed, and double especially when the Grand Priest had that blatantly villainous smirk and Goku was glaring up at him. Then it just...went fucking nowhere. I didn't bother to touch the manga of Super, but I've never heard any mention of any sort of "Mortals vs. Gods" plot stirring or anything.

You're not the only one. A lot of people thought the Grand Priest was evil (well, I mean he and the Zenos are, but I mean as the direct threat) and that there would be a battle between the mortals and gods. (And no, nothing like that has been brought up in the manga AFAIK, heck I don't think that upper echelon have made any appearance whatsoever.)

Another reason is because the promotional poster teasing Ultra Instinct had the phrase "The Works of the Gods End Here" which people thought meant the system was going to be overthrown. (Apparently another translation is "The technique of the Gods is perfected here" which would actually make sense given what ended up happening in the show. So a mistranslation being spread around by sloptubers like Mastar or whatever is possible.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I don't know, but that's why I still hate the divinity system. Whis and Beerus were good in BoG, where Beerus was clearly meant to be stronger than Goku but no overwhelmingly, and for Whis to be notably stronger than him, to instill the "there's always someone stronger" message and get Goku and Dragon Ball in general back in the game, so to speak.

Beerus and Whis were fine when they were first introduced in BoG, but they became substantially less OK in every entry following. Where it becomes more and more nonsensical the longer things go on that Beerus would have been satisfied with a battle against Super Saiyan God Goku when he's currently stronger than UI Goku without ever having trained.

It's like one of the most heinous retcons ever because it undercuts everything Goku has ever done. Beerus was a guy that Frieza and the Saiyan King were both terrified of, despite the point of both those characters (King Vegeta to a much lesser extent) being that nobody fucked with them before Goku and the Z-Fighters came along. Also he's 100x stronger than Majin Buu despite Buu wiping out the Supreme Kai's with minimum effort in the distant past.

But in Super, they're set as some kinda hard cap where despie Goku unlocking some new rainbow color transformation and killing universes, he'll always be weaker than Beerus at like 0.7% power, and he and Whis only really serve to show up every now and then, immediately solve the problem, remind you they can immediately solve the problem anytime they want, and/or make the whole cast, usually Vegeta, their bitches and they can't do anything about it, and the only time Beerus gets taken down a peg for being a sociopathic asshole is when he's near Zeno, who's an even bigger sociopathic asshole that's entirely liable to kill the entire multiverse milliseconds after the End of Z because he's bored Goku went off to train Uub.

And that's the other part of it. Goku should've surpassed Beerus the moment he discovered SSJB because apparently he was already pretty close with Super Saiyan God but the ceiling just keeps going up to the point of absurdity. I've really turned on Super lately and Beerus and the other gods are a big part of that. There are no stakes anymore because the heroes have these invincible dudes all on in their corner and it came to a head in the Zamasu arc where Beerus just kinda erased the bad guy from existence the moment he realized he was a bad guy. Then you Whis literally dancing around Broly in the movie, making it very clear that they're not actually under any threat.

I could go on and on, but if there's ever a retrospective where people analyze what goes wrong, it needs to start with Battle of Gods because that's where the wheels started to come off.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

A lot of people thought the Grand Priest was evil (well, I mean he and the Zenos are, but I mean as the direct threat) and that there would be a battle between the mortals and gods.

I still think we will (or would've under Toriyama) see that

Goku should've surpassed Beerus the moment he discovered SSJB because apparently he was already pretty close with Super Saiyan God but the ceiling just keeps going up to the point of absurdity

Yeah I really hate that. I remember in the movie they were fairly close in power already according to Toriyama, but SSB should've been where he easily surpassed him (over 50x his BoG strength more than closes the gap). Even accounting for the anime's retcon of the film, Beerus was sweating his ass off in fear seeing Goku stack Kaioken against Hit in the U6 tournament, implying he's at least close. But then later it's revealed that Vegito Blue (Zamasu arc) is actually equal to Beerus.

...That is, until Goku states that Broly is actually about as strong as Beerus (which makes no sense since Zamasu arc Vegito should be weaker than Broly, since everyone was able to sorta fend off fused Zamasu individually better than they could Broly, and Vegito was having some difficulty against Zamasu).

The "Power Levels are bullshit" meme wasn't really actually true until DBS, now it kinda is, and it's mainly Beerus' fault (and Roshi's in the manga). Unless they say Beerus has been training this whole time then it's stupid, and even that'd be unsatisfying.

 

[Echinacea]

part of me wishes they packed it up with the cell saga. the longer a franchise runs, the more it starts to turn into fan fiction

 

[Punished Benis]

part of me wishes they packed it up with the cell saga. the longer a franchise runs, the more it starts to turn into fan fiction

Cell Saga would be the best end point for the series, Namek be damned. Gohan has acheived an (at the time) unprecedented evolution and grown into a worthy defender of the planet, Vegeta gets his pride (and humanity) shoved in his face, and Krillin gets the girl.

I do like the timeline Toriyama wrote for DBO, up through Age 1000, but Super has been super.

Spoiler

Super ASS!

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I do like the timeline Toriyama wrote for DBO

If Toriyama didn't leave any instructions for DB for after his inevitable passing then as far as I'm concerned, DBO was the canon ending for the series.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Increasingly (unfortunately) frequent update on Dragon Ball Multiverse.
The Multiverse Tournament has finally ended after 17 years.
The finale was just Goku getting killed in one attack after going into his new (not ultra instinct) form.
The villain copied the out of nowhere plot device timestop of a joke character from a few chapters ago and just instantly killed Goku in his new form without effort and Goku just died.


I've been observing the comment section, and it's been fairly wild.
Sockpuppets are telling the mods to kill themselves and posting Salagir's email after one of them decided to delete most of the fairly civil discussion going on in the comments and then said "Let's try again and not get emotional " just because people weren't happy with subverted expectations and having the literal hero of DB die like a chump.

The magic wank in this dogshit story is absolutely fucking unreal. It'd be OK if we hadn't literally already seen a character with Time Stop in DBZ being unable to really do much to people in timestop, but the wank must go on.

 

[Xenomorphs Are Cute]

Frenchies, not even once.

 

[Smack Patrick]

Increasingly (unfortunately) frequent update on Dragon Ball Multiverse.

I genuinely only use the DBM site for Goten-kun's comics. Not the best artistically but they're leagues above the main comic.
He has some weird hate boner for the Mafuba. Which I kinda understand honestly.

Looking at the main comic comment section, God damn fuck that Iron Leaf janny is a faggot.

>the tournament was never the focus
lmao, what a cope

Although, not all jannies are happy.

 

[Judge Holden]

Frenchies, not even once.

Now that you mention it, it does feel kinda weird how while perusing manga sites for melodramatic villainess hurt/comfort slop uh big booby grimdark fantasy and guns and splosions slop I have found that like 90% of all the Dragonball fanfic doujinshis that pop up are from France

I mean given the strange yet honestly endearing relationship Mexico has with the franchise its hardly a shock that anuddah random country would have its own unique fixation with it, though my general aversion to Dragonball fanfics....itself a consequence of my early exposure to DBM....means I have never really looked in to any of them to gauge whether they are good or bad

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I genuinely only use the DBM site for Goten-kun's comics. Not the best artistically but they're leagues above the main comic.
He has some weird hate boner for the Mafuba. Which I kinda understand honestly.

Looking at the main comic comment section, God damn fuck that Iron Leaf janny is a faggot.
View attachment 7605070View attachment 7605073View attachment 7605084
>the tournament was never the focus
lmao, what a cope

Although, not all jannies are happy.
View attachment 7605099

Yeah, Iron Leaf is one of the biggest faggot jannies I've ever seen.
Sometimes the powertripping jannies will delete comments for having a SINGLE word capitalized, or for "swearing"
Just disregard that every character in DBM will scream FUCK at a moment's notice in the comic itself.
This time I think the powderkeg got lit because it was especially egregious because about 10 multi-paragraph long posts discussing aspects of the story and what makes a story got instantly deleted by egomaniac moderators out of nowhere.
The last time a janny quit after seeing egregious bullshit was the whole Son Bra fiasco, where he ragequit when everyone just instantly forgave her for murdering everyone. I'd argue that this is even worse than that time.


Although the cope with Bra from the mods and writers is so funny, because it was just the fucking Majin possession spell, something that anybody with enough willpower or even good inside of them can pretty effortlessly break out of. Fuck, not only did Vegeta break out of it in the Buu Saga (made funnier in that Salagir truly believes that Vegeta was literally pure evil all the way up to saying Goku was better than him, which is why Vegito is evil in DBM (meaning that the fact that he sacrificed himself to try to kill Majin Buu and later when he did so again when fusing into Vegito is meaningless because he didn't vocalize his belief that Goku was better than him)
To make matters worse, fucking CELL of all people managed to easily break out of Babidi's control. (Funnily enough, Salagir did accidentally give Babidi the ability to kill every single contestant when he force teleported everyone onto a random planet literally fucking billions of lightyears away, not sure why he didn't just teleport them into the event horizon of a black hole)
I think I will always hold a special place of hatred for Bra saying "Do you really think so little of me?" to Vegito when he's getting powercucked for the 7th time in the fanfic despite the fact that she literally killed two Gohans with a smirk on her face.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I think I will always hold a special place of hatred for Bra saying "Do you really think so little of me?" to Vegito when he's getting powercucked for the 7th time in the fanfic despite the fact that she literally killed two Gohans with a smirk on her face.

Bro that whole Majin Bra arc was fucking retarded. The amount they relied on Sensu Beans to keep Bra on top of the team was stupid.
And how does it end?
>the only person who can beat Bra, is Bra!
>"oh and she can perfectly control ssj2 now" < actual fucking dialogue

Oh and if anyone in the thread is wondering "maybe it was obvious Goku was gonna insta lose" and that we're over reacting...
No. The cover:

Looks like a tribute to Goku's journey with the big bad evil in the background? Like "can our hero defeat this unstoppable foe?"

Oh look, Goku being smart instead of retarded. A common criticism the DBM team has against Super.

A page dedicated to him powering up to this new "exciting" form.

Salagir if you're reading this, here's how you should've done it.
>Goku instead of asking XII to wait a minute for him to power up
>instead says "Hey, I know you can probably one-shot me like you've done with opponents way stronger than me. But it's the final, lets say we give the audience a show?"
>XII agrees.
>You then have a full chapter dedicated to a great fight, showcasing the new form, XII's abilities, maybe some show off his potential weakness, etc
>Then when it looks like Goku is about to actually win-
>Hole through the chest.
>XII wins
Really ain't that hard. Way better than hyping up a new form, the BBE, the final of the tournament, for about a decade only to end it 3 panels.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Bro that whole Majin Bra arc was fucking retarded. The amount they relied on Sensu Beans to keep Bra on top of the team was stupid.
And how does it end?
>the only person who can beat Bra, is Bra!
>"oh and she can perfectly control ssj2 now" < actual fucking dialogue

Oh and if anyone in the thread is wondering "maybe it was obvious Goku was gonna insta lose" and that we're over reacting...
No. The cover:
View attachment 7605600
Looks like a tribute to Goku's journey with the big bad evil in the background? Like "can our hero defeat this unstoppable foe?"
View attachment 7605605
Oh look, Goku being smart instead of retarded. A common criticism the DBM team has against Super.
View attachment 7605610
A page dedicated to him powering up to this new "exciting" form.

Salagir if you're reading this, here's how you should've done it.
>Goku instead of asking XII to wait a minute for him to power up
>instead says "Hey, I know you can probably one-shot me like you've done with opponents way stronger than me. But it's the final, lets say we give the audience a show?"
>XII agrees.
>You then have a full chapter dedicated to a great fight, showcasing the new form, XII's abilities, maybe some show off his potential weakness, etc
>Then when it looks like Goku is about to actually win-
>Hole through the chest.
>XII wins
Really ain't that hard. Way better than hyping up a new form, the BBE, the final of the tournament, for about a decade only to end it 3 panels.
View attachment 7605636

I think the funny part is that if it was DBS Goku, he'd have acted retarded, and then busted out of that timestop simply from being too strong.
Just like what happened against Hit.
Then you've got DBS Goku when he showed up in Heroes, and he went UI and nodiffed the literal time god.

DBM consistently wanks literally anything other than martial arts in the story about martial arts, instead choosing to make the martial artists into ineffective jobbing retards only fit to get trolled and oneshot over and over again.
I hope Stop Killing Games actually does rape Salagir's dogshit shovelware company.

 

[Lone Star]

Although, not all jannies are happy.

The scene was stupid, but people that treat Goku like he's their dad will never not be horribly cringe.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The scene was stupid, but people that treat Goku like he's their dad will never not be horribly cringe.

It's not just bad for that reason though, it's more than Goku basically just getting utterly humiliated in a tournament finale, whereas the writer's pet Bra has never faced such humiliation, and she basically got treated like she won a fight she gave up without throwing a single punch in, and then nobody really cared that she squandered her chance to fulfill a promise she made completely when Gast jobbed.
It's more that Salagir just seemingly has no understanding how Dragonball works.
The funniest part was when Zen Buu outright said at one point in this dogshit that to be immune to magic, you just need to be a thousand times stronger than the one trying to use magic on you. To which Uub said that meant that Vegito was a thousand times stronger than him at that time.
Vegito then proceeded to get fucking BODIED by somebody at around Semi-Perfect Cell's level of strength with magic. Somehow.
And also got teleported against his will by Babidi.
Considering that he said that in reference to Buu Saga Buuhan's magic, I guess DBM Babidi has been working the fuck out.

Like, I can't believe that Salagir is trying to use magic retardation against the guy who was literally so strong that he could ignore his entire physical form being reduced to a fucking jawbreaker and continue fighting, well enough that his opponent believed that it would be easier to just turn him back.
Like, it's a pretty established fact in Dragonball that even literal fucking wish granting dragon magic can't do shit against people if they don't want it and they're stronger than them.
Which isn't much of a surprise, considering that this is a setting about martial arts, not sci-fi bullshit or harry potter magic.

 

[Smack Patrick]

DBM consistently wanks literally anything other than martial arts in the story about martial arts

Thing is, even the official series kinda wanks true magic. Like with the Moro arc and him magically drinking peoples energy juice.
However Toriyama, instead of using some counter magic bullshit or a pet gary/mary sue (Gast or Bra) , has Vegeta find a way to counter the effects of the magic bullshit with a special Ki technique. A little out there, but still leagues above anything in DBM

Salagir is trying to use magic retardation

Bro if Salagir was a writer for the official series, Fortuneteller Baba would be the leader of the Z-Fighters with her magic and they would've stop using martial arts a long time ago.

Here's how you write a magic focused character in Dragon Ball:

Spoiler: STEP ONE

You don't.

Spoiler: STEP TWO

If you have to have one, then just have him be the Red Mage. "Haste", "Regen", "Heal", etc.
>"Goku, why don't you go SSBSS Kaioken x21 to beat him?"
>"I can't go above 20 or it'll destroy my body."
>"Well, with the last of my life force I will cast Regen on you. It's a spell that will continuosly heal you for a while, it should counter the effects of the Kaioken."
>"Ballin'."
>"But I must warn you, it's not perfect so don-"
>"KAIOKEN TIMES 50!!!"

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Thing is, even the official series kinda wanks true magic. Like with the Moro arc and him magically drinking peoples energy juice.
However Toriyama, instead of using some counter magic bullshit or a pet gary/mary sue (Gast or Bra) , has Vegeta find a way to counter the effects of the magic bullshit with a special Ki technique. A little out there, but still leagues above anything in DBM

Hold on a moment there, nigga, Moro is a Toyotaro original creation, I've never found any evidence of Toriyama's direct involvement in the story in the arcs of DBS past the ToP. (Other than the two movies) Moro is shit in another way, but still better than XXI.

It's funny how you can turn DBM's staff into crying soyjaks if you merely suggest that Super did something first, like say, the design of Ultra Instinct, or the idea of an ancient world eating being that needed to be stopped by the kaioshin.
Not my fault you took 17 fucking years to get to the point, and it's very clear that the story isn't actually planned out at all based on how things clearly occur in story as a reaction to fan criticism.
These niggers sometimes have the audacity to claim that Super "copied" them too, because Super had a mass Namekian fusion, and fucking "female Super Saiyans" (Asura has drawn cope Art of Super Saiyan 2 Kefla fighting Super Saiyan 2 Bra, as if base Caulifla alone wouldn't splatter Bra into red goo thanks to DBM's "racial powercaps".)
Like those two things weren't things that any fan wondering "what-if" had imagined 30 fuckin years ago.

 

[Smack Patrick]

It's funny how you can turn DBM's staff into crying soyjaks if you merely suggest that Super did something first,

Forget Super, don't you dare suggest DBGT beat them to the punch
.