Eliezer Schlomo Yudkowsky / LessWrong

[StraightShooter]

Transhumanism was never good.

Transhumanism is basically just wank material for neckbearded computer programmers which is about as scientifically accurate to reality as The Outer Limits.

Not to mention, all that "rationality" and still stuck with masturbating to MLP due to inability to get laid, meaning that even a caveman is more evolutionarily fit than these self-referentially "rational" people from a Darwinian perspective.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Transhumanism is basically just wank material for neckbearded computer programmers which is about as scientifically accurate to reality as The Outer Limits.

Not to mention, all that "rationality" and still stuck with masturbating to MLP due to inability to get laid, meaning that even a caveman is more evolutionarily fit than these self-referentially "rational" people from a Darwinian perspective.

Maybe they mistook studying degenerate atomic orbitals for being degenerate.

 

[Transvaalan]

Since it got brought up in the dork enlightenment thread, I thought it was worth a shot to make a thread about the rationalist community.

Imagine r/atheism with all the flaws (incestuous circle-jerking, mindless groupthink, smugness, neckbeards running amok. etc. etc.) cranked up to 11.

It started with LessWrong, a thread started by Elizier Yudkowsky,a creepy high-school washout with absolutely no experience or education in science, philosophy, or pretty much anything other than masturbating to PC specs.

LessWrong was supposed to be a community based around becoming more rational people. But, as the Dunning-Kruger effect has demonstrated time and again, if you get a bunch of people who are pretty sure they're smart together where the real world can't intervene, shit's going to get dumb really fast.

So not long until Big Yud coralled his flock together, he started writing a Harry Potter fanfic that is pretty much Atlas Shrugged for people too dumb to read Atlas Shrugged. (The link goes to a series of reviews of the fanfic, because the fic itself is about as entertaining as circumcising yourself with a belt sander.) The response was circle-jerky and this tribe of so-called rational thinkers became evangelizing using a goddamn Harry Potter fanfic. Despite how obvious this sounds, much of reddit got suckered in, because reddit hasn't met a stupid idea it didn't like.

Then it became a cult.

Yud has this thing called Roko's Basilisk where he thinks an AI in the future might want to punish people who didn't make it exist so in order to prevent a digital copy of yourself from being tortured forever, you have to donate to MIRI, Yud's organization for AI research, which has exactly one person with a computer science degree on board and no peer-reviewed research or any actual coding. If the fate of my AI-soul depends on these people then please just let Skynet blow me up.

Also he believes in the Timeless Decision Theory where future events affect the past. somehow.

And of course he's scared of dying to the point where he labels anyone who accepts death as a "Deathist"(actual word they use) and he believes cryonics and AI research will make immortality happen.

And like most cult leaders, Yud comes across as pretty lulzy when he's speaking to someone other than a cult member.

"Torture is preferable to 50 people getting specks in their eyes."

Yud tends to 'rationally' lose his shit when criticized.

Everything about this little circlejerk is so surreal and funny.

Like how they proudly show off their pony fanfic as a serious work.

Did yall cover the part where DLP caught his ass trying to sell new chapters of his shitty fanfic? They reported him to the authorities. Then, he is featured in a /fit/ meme about how impossible it is to lose weight. With some mealy mouth wordy bullshit.

Oh and honestly, the fic itself? Kinda nice read....until about chapter fiveish where after Harry goes on a rampage of acting like a complete and utter little shit, he is forced to "learn to lose". And its way cringier than it sounds. Like, it was in that category of arrogant little shit Harry but man, this one took all the cakes. That's All of them. And That's Bad.

And the fic itself is nearly 70 chapters long. And it never got out of the 1st year.

Fuck. I was wrong. Its well over a 100 with 665k words. And wrong about the chapter where it goes to shit. 18. Thats about when. Man I had forgotten when it went from comedy to shitpile.

 

[DrJonesHat]

For fuck's sake, ponies can even ruin transhumanism. I swear, anybody comes to my RPG table and says their hacker uses ponies to represent themselves in the virtual world is getting beaten with the Core Book until they choose something less autistic.

Same here. I run an Eclipse Phase campaign, and so far, no one's tried to say they're a pony in the mesh (the successor to the internet), but if they do, I'm ruling that the government of wherever they're at has declared such things as threats to transhumanity and they drop an asteroid on their location.

As was said, transhumanism is a religion for people who think they're too smart for religion. Most of the technologies they sperg about aren't actually possible (nanotech, as envisioned by Drexler, isn't physically possible, at least, not with our current understanding of physics), or if they are, will be invented in a corporate or government lab with billions of dollars in funding, not a bunch of neckbeards on the internet talking about ponies and how smart they are.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

For fuck's sake, ponies can even ruin transhumanism. I swear, anybody comes to my RPG table and says their hacker uses ponies to represent themselves in the virtual world is getting beaten with the Core Book until they choose something less autistic.

You'll be pretty safe if you only allow people who smell like they've showered once in the last week.

 

[AngeloTheWizard]

Same here. I run an Eclipse Phase campaign, and so far, no one's tried to say they're a pony in the mesh (the successor to the internet), but if they do, I'm ruling that the government of wherever they're at has declared such things as threats to transhumanity and they drop an asteroid on their location.

Ah, I love Eclipse Phase. One of these days I'll actually get to play in a campaign of it.

Back on topic, I continue to find it humorous that in their desire to be unattached to any religion, they make false gods out of the scientific method. Their idols might be made of test tubes and repeatable results but it's an idol all the same. Horseshoe theory, hypocrisy, or just that people have a burning need to worship gods, call it whatever you like, it's funny to me all the same.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Strange that no one here made a Mr.Freeze jab in this thread.
Also, the Nazi autists here are basically those edgy comments on right-winged Youtube channels that say, "Just admit it, it's the Jews".

 

[DrJonesHat]

Ah, I love Eclipse Phase. One of these days I'll actually get to play in a campaign of it.

In the Firewall sourcebook, as you may be aware, they make fun of Roko's Basilisk. I thought it was a nice touch.

Normally, I'd say let these clowns have their little corner of the net and let them sperg, but Yudkowsky has actually been cited as an authority on seed AIs and he has no idea what he's talking about. I don't want spergs preventing useful research into machine learning. It's like those amateur "physicists" who tried to get the LHC shut down because they thought it would destroy the Earth.

 

[escapegoat]

I am guessing that there is a lot of overlap between Amateur AI Authoritahs and Amateur Theoretical Physicists.

 

[DrJonesHat]

I am guessing that there is a lot of overlap between Amateur AI Authoritahs and Amateur Theoretical Physicists.

It's an odd case of a hard science (computer science, physics) providing proof of the validity of a soft science (psychology), specifically, the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[AngeloTheWizard]

I am guessing that there is a lot of overlap between Amateur AI Authoritahs and Amateur Theoretical Physicists.

They have a theoretical degree in physics.

More to the point, science fiction tends to deal with such things regularly-after all, a lot of sci-fi wouldn't be possible without things that are only possible in theory, or things that are IMpossible without the magic bullshit the writer comes up with. Hell, I'm working on something right now that involves a Ringworld powered by a Dyson Sphere and fully staffed by self-aware robots, and I'm well aware that it's such bullshit I'm not even going to bother explaining how the ancient precursors that built the fucking thing pulled it off. If you've spent your whole life consuming media that uses this far-out science that may or may not even be possible, it's not hard to start thinking that you know something about it. I know just enough about engineering and programming and all these subjects to know that I know fuck-all.

I really think it's a case where Yudkowsky has watched just enough crap to think he knows something. Mix in any possible psychological problems, and you have a hell of a cocktail.

 

[DrJonesHat]

They have a theoretical degree in physics.

More to the point, science fiction tends to deal with such things regularly-after all, a lot of sci-fi wouldn't be possible without things that are only possible in theory, or things that are IMpossible without the magic bullshit the writer comes up with. Hell, I'm working on something right now that involves a Ringworld powered by a Dyson Sphere and fully staffed by self-aware robots, and I'm well aware that it's such bullshit I'm not even going to bother explaining how the ancient precursors that built the fucking thing pulled it off. If you've spent your whole life consuming media that uses this far-out science that may or may not even be possible, it's not hard to start thinking that you know something about it. I know just enough about engineering and programming and all these subjects to know that I know fuck-all.

I really think it's a case where Yudkowsky has watched just enough crap to think he knows something. Mix in any possible psychological problems, and you have a hell of a cocktail.

Part of it, I think is that in some cases, stuff we thought was impossible just a few years ago has now been shown to be at least theoretically possible. But laypeople think that means that EVERYTHING is actually possible if we just try hard enough.

 

[Transvaalan]

Strange that no one here made a Mr.Freeze jab in this thread.
Also, the Nazi autists here are basically those edgy comments on right-winged Youtube channels that say, "Just admit it, it's the Jews".

And they aren't even wrong.

There's plenty of utterly exceptional fan fiction on TV Tropes.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/Uplifted

Neo Nazi Mass Effect fan fiction.

Is it well written? Do the Nazis...remain Nazis? Im rather soured on most depictions of a 3rd that makes it through the 40s intact. Most depictions becoming egregiously hamfisted in their panicking when they realize they are portraying normal life post war and, spoiler alert, it pretty nice for certain people. Turtledove's WorldWar series for one. Excellent series but still.

Edit: And its garbage. Bleh.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

And they aren't even wrong.

Is it well written? Do the Nazis...remain Nazis? Im rather soured on most depictions of a 3rd that makes it through the 40s intact. Most depictions becoming egregiously hamfisted in their panicking when they realize they are portraying normal life post war and, spoiler alert, it pretty nice for certain people. Turtledove's WorldWar series for one. Excellent series but still.

Edit: And its garbage. Bleh.

I'm sure shitty fan fiction not being nice enough to Nazis is the main problem with it.

 

[escapegoat]

I loved this piece. Actual physicist talking to amateur physicists.

http://aeon.co/ideas/what-i-learned-as-a-hired-consultant-for-autodidact-physicists

The majority of my callers are the ones who seek advice for an idea they’ve tried to formalise, unsuccessfully, often for a long time. Many of them are retired or near retirement, typically with a background in engineering or a related industry.

Basically, it's the same group of people thinking being "logical" makes them good at everything.

 

[Transvaalan]

I'm sure shitty fan fiction not being nice enough to Nazis is the main problem with it.

Its a boring old trope, largely born out of creative cowardice and pleas for asspats. "Oh lets take the Nazis right? And make them not Nazis." Or the even dumber "They would fall into a permanent economic crash and become worse off than North Korea". Or the massively stupid "They would liberalize socially anyways and hurrdurrdurr" which typically goes with the brainbug that some put forth of having to engage in social liberalism to achieve technological progress. Or that such things are inevitable.

Even stuff like The Man in the High Castle bends and pleads and begs for asspats in the end. And Iron Sky, while...guilty fun, was also infected with braindead stupidity and a absolute refusal to attack the Moon Nazis on actual weakness. Like severe inbreeding.

And other trash. Like oh sudden exposure and bam, they hate themselves. No. Just no. We have seen what happens when such regimes have even a few decades to mold and militarize their national culture with racist fascism. You get Imperial Japan, North Korea, you get extremely stable regimes that outside of military intervention and occupation, can self perpetuate into perpetuity.

The general level and intensity of autistic screeching regarding any Nazi regime survival scenario basically all the fiction written is largely the same and extremely boring. And frequently stupid. With nonsense that the Nazi regime would have completely collapsed post war anyways, or that they would have never gotten the Bomb(Fun Story about that. It was actually feasible for Germany to produce atomic weaponry. Thats not the issue. The real issue is a delivery system. Developing the Enola Gay was actually more expensive and difficult than producing the bomb that made it famous. So aside from suicide bombing ships or subs, the Germans had no way to deliver the thing.) and other drivel. Not to mention to screeching about Plan Ost. Like, they can't decide if it was inevitable or whether it was too insane for the Nazis to do or too impossible. And the Golden Egg. The most glorious bit of bald faced dumbassery? Saying shit like the Nazis would have gotten bogged down in a guerilla war and suffered too many casualties and called it quits. Its just an amazing cavalcade of lols to be had.

Spoiler

Like the ancient Draka stomp fics. Most were shit for a variety of reasons. You want an example of a good one? One that isn't obsessed with tearing apart the premise but instead rolls with it to a natural conclusion?

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/8677443/1/

 

[DykesDykesChina]

Ah, I love Eclipse Phase. One of these days I'll actually get to play in a campaign of it.

Back on topic, I continue to find it humorous that in their desire to be unattached to any religion, they make false gods out of the scientific method. Their idols might be unproven speculations about the brain and computers. Horseshoe theory, hypocrisy, or just that people have a burning need to worship gods, call it whatever you like, it's funny to me all the same.

Fixed.

Also, why do people who consider themselves geniuses invest thousands of work hours into Harry Potter and/or MLP fanfictions??

 

[Chiang Kai-shek]

Looks we found a new pit of autism. Tired of normal fanfiction? Well now we have R A T I O N A L fanfiction or rational fic.

I think if you have nitpick tiny insignificant shit to enjoy something you need help.

 

[AnOminous]

Fixed.

Also, why do people who consider themselves geniuses invest thousands of work hours into Harry Potter and/or MLP fanfictions??

You really need to ask this?

Spoiler

:autism:

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Its a boring old trope, largely born out of creative cowardice and pleas for asspats. "Oh lets take the Nazis right? And make them not Nazis." Or the even dumber "They would fall into a permanent economic crash and become worse off than North Korea". Or the massively stupid "They would liberalize socially anyways and hurrdurrdurr" which typically goes with the brainbug that some put forth of having to engage in social liberalism to achieve technological progress. Or that such things are inevitable.

Even stuff like The Man in the High Castle bends and pleads and begs for asspats in the end. And Iron Sky, while...guilty fun, was also infected with braindead stupidity and a absolute refusal to attack the Moon Nazis on actual weakness. Like severe inbreeding.

And other trash. Like oh sudden exposure and bam, they hate themselves. No. Just no. We have seen what happens when such regimes have even a few decades to mold and militarize their national culture with racist fascism. You get Imperial Japan, North Korea, you get extremely stable regimes that outside of military intervention and occupation, can self perpetuate into perpetuity.

The general level and intensity of autistic screeching regarding any Nazi regime survival scenario basically all the fiction written is largely the same and extremely boring. And frequently stupid. With nonsense that the Nazi regime would have completely collapsed post war anyways, or that they would have never gotten the Bomb(Fun Story about that. It was actually feasible for Germany to produce atomic weaponry. Thats not the issue. The real issue is a delivery system. Developing the Enola Gay was actually more expensive and difficult than producing the bomb that made it famous. So aside from suicide bombing ships or subs, the Germans had no way to deliver the thing.) and other drivel. Not to mention to screeching about Plan Ost. Like, they can't decide if it was inevitable or whether it was too insane for the Nazis to do or too impossible. And the Golden Egg. The most glorious bit of bald faced dumbassery? Saying shit like the Nazis would have gotten bogged down in a guerilla war and suffered too many casualties and called it quits. Its just an amazing cavalcade of lols to be had.

Spoiler

Like the ancient Draka stomp fics. Most were shit for a variety of reasons. You want an example of a good one? One that isn't obsessed with tearing apart the premise but instead rolls with it to a natural conclusion?

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/8677443/1/

No one wants to read that wall of autism, man.

Germany was nowhere close to making an atomic bomb. Some German scientists even derided relativity as "Jewish physics" at one point, though voices of reason prevailed. Drivng all the Jewish scientists away certainly didn't help matters at all. The United States sent an agent, Moe Berg, to assassinate Werner Heisenberg in Switzerland if he was approaching the discovery, and he didn't because Heisenberg was nowhere close.

As for the economics, I'd recommend reading The Wages Of Destruction by Adam Tooze, but there's no way you'd ever read a book in your life so I might as well not bother.