Epic Games General Thread - Its time to talk about what the AAA gaming industry does not understand about the PC console.

With this argument still going back and forth, maybe start with the spyware issues with Epic Games Launcher?

Is it really true that said launcher is a Chinese spyware, or this is blown out of proportion? We do know that it does log into your Steam friends list and playtime for the games you played in your Steam library, but are all of these sent with Tencent and the Chinese government which can be a concern?
 
With this argument still going back and forth, maybe start with the spyware issues with Epic Games Launcher?

Is it really true that said launcher is a Chinese spyware, or this is blown out of proportion? We do know that it does log into your Steam friends list and playtime for the games you played in your Steam library, but are all of these sent with Tencent and the Chinese government which can be a concern?

I agree, this is a concern. The idea that there is ever such a thing as an Independent Chinese Company from the State is a fantasy to me. It is one of the big reasons that I think people shouldn't use the Epic Launcher unless they really want to play Fortnite. Pretty much Epic did this(the mining of steam files and browser information) and didn't come clean until they were caught.

The issues with accounts being hacked is also a concern that I have with the launcher.
 
In all of these postings and especially the long one I made earlier that you rated dumb; this is all you read? Really?

No sign of being able to see a bigger picture? No sign of being able to see that some of us are wanting something better after the Epic vs Steam fight is over? The concept that some of us might be wanting a different marketplace option when Epic possibly drives itself into a ditch and Steam has an unchecked monopoly again; does this actually go over your head?

Is this nihilism or autism? I am really hoping for the former here.

I'm not going to support a shitty company because the good company had a monopoly. If you want to compete, have something to offer.

Steam doesn't limit the number of downloads per title, doesn't push games or devs off its platform for bullshit or political reasons, offers any dev a marketplace, doesn't spy on their customers, and offers tons of quality of life features. I really don't understand why people think Steam is bad. Because shitty games are on the platform? I think that's a good thing. If you don't want them, don't buy them. People being able to access a market, however, is good. I like how Valve doesn't get into the political discourse. This is all good.

I really don't understand why anyone would think Steam is shitty. If you want to compete, you're going to have to do more than release CHINESE SPYWARE and pay people to not use Steam. Make another option. A serious option. An option that doesn't spy on me and takes care of me more than what Steam does.
 
Well, well let's correct one thing, Steam DOES spy on you but it's mostly studies your PC to see what your specs are or what games you'd prefer. But, it def doesn't pull Epic's level of Chinese spyware.
 
Well, well let's correct one thing, Steam DOES spy on you but it's mostly studies your PC to see what your specs are or what games you'd prefer. But, it def doesn't pull Epic's level of Chinese spyware.
"Hey, I am getting assfucked by a burning stake, but at least it's not covered in poison!"
 
I misspoke on supply and demand. I agree with you that the cost of the development doesn't make games good, I only play cheap ass games like OSU or counter strike source. But mainstream audiences care about the production value of these singleplayer cinematic experiences like metro exodus which is why they are so expensive to make. Since the companies that make these mainstream titles are competing against eachother they will have to put more money into the games if less of the money from the sales go to the launcher. Obviously in the dream world all games would be free and developed collaboratively as a hobby like mods are, but the real world doesn't look like that and you can still play cheap ass games like OSU or Touhou Project if you want to. The competition that the epic launcher brings positively impacts the mainstream gamer, it's kindof hilarious how they are shooting themselves in the foot because of blind fanboyism towards steam.

Or maybe you know better than all these companies on where to allocate money and if YOU had a videogame company you would make cheap games that people still want to play
sigh
The problem is that they aren't competing for customers they are competing for publishers. If Epic was selling new games for 50 or 55 dollars (offset by giving a larger cut to publishers) while Steam was charging 60 very, very few people would be up in arms over it. Instead you have Epic charging the exact same price and making you use an objectively inferior client to play your game. It's pretty easy to compete with Steam for customers. Either offer better service then Steam (which nobody really does outside of free games like EGS and Origin), features Steam doesn't have (GoG's all DRM free) or a better price then Steam (Amazon Prime and Humble Store both do this, although it's contingent on a sort of subscription).

And frankly, AAA studios don't care about competing with each other. They care about staking out territory and milking fanbases with yearly installments, and sometimes they accidentally make a decent game because some of their developers managed to keep a vision going in spite of all the business majors that only care about profit breathing down their necks. Bioware obviously didn't care about competing with Destiny 2 or Division 2 or Borderlands 3 or even Fallout 76 when they released their looter-shooter. Why? Because the Corporate Powers That Be knew that it was shit but people would buy it anyway out of brand loyalty. The suits that actually handle the money know about competition intellectually but they don't actually understand the products they are selling so it's a moot point. They'll take the extra money from EGS, spend it on adding 20 more advertising majors to the dev team and then write the rest down as profit to impress the shareholders and earn their big bonuses.
 
The problem is that they aren't competing for customers they are competing for publishers. If Epic was selling new games for 50 or 55 dollars (offset by giving a larger cut to publishers) while Steam was charging 60 very, very few people would be up in arms over it. Instead you have Epic charging the exact same price and making you use an objectively inferior client to play your game. It's pretty easy to compete with Steam for customers. Either offer better service then Steam (which nobody really does outside of free games like EGS and Origin), features Steam doesn't have (GoG's all DRM free) or a better price then Steam (Amazon Prime and Humble Store both do this, although it's contingent on a sort of subscription).

And frankly, AAA studios don't care about competing with each other. They care about staking out territory and jerking off fanbases with yearly installments, and sometimes they accidentally make a decent game because some of their developers managed to keep a vision going in spite of all the business majors that only care about profit breathing down their necks. Bioware obviously didn't care about competing with Destiny 2 or Division 2 or Borderlands 3 or even Fallout 76 when they released their looter-shooter. Why? Because the Corporate Powers That Be knew that it was shit but people would buy it anyway out of brand loyalty. The suits that actually handle the money know about competition intellectually but they don't actually understand the products they are selling so it's a moot point. They'll take the extra money from EGS, spend it on adding 20 more advertising majors to the dev team and then write the rest down as profit to impress the shareholders and earn their big bonuses.
I don´t get why people try the whole "oh but epic gives the publisher a bigger cut"!!! argument, Who gives a fuck most of the money will go to publisher suits anyway. Weren´t we promised a price drop on games asoon as they went all digital beacuse it was "so expenisve to print discs!" Most AAA gamepublishers need to cut their marketing budget in 1/4 as we are not living in 2008 anymore, people who want to buy your game doesn´t watch tv anymore they watch twitch/youtube.

___

Im rather happy with valves monolpy anyway look at the other publisher houses they are trying to constantly outcuck each other
  • In all ubi games you can´t say any mean words in r rated multiplayer games.
  • All ea games are today all style over substance.
-In blizzard games they are trying to look at your social media history to see if you are bannworthy.
meanwhile valve lies dormant and just collects the money.
 
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All the arguments in favor of this seem to amount to "install some malware and give all your data to the Chinese because maybe in the future it will be better."
This is possibly one of the better arguments that could possibly be made against the entire thing. You can't have a terrible product on your hands and say "it'll totes be super cool you guys, i can see the completed thing in my head already, just wait a few years and give me money while you're here" and actually be taken seriously by anyone with a brain. If there is a gigantic outcry against your product, you have to work twice, even thrice as hard to please people who're telling you just how terrible your product is. If a company doesn't care about consumers' interests and criticisms, then why would they even use their product at all?

An example I know personally is Elder Scrolls: Legends, when back in September 2018 Dire Wolf passed the development to Sparkypants Studios. When the new client was finally released, after months of anticipation, it was a giant mess, everything was clunky, slow and generally bad. Players were angry, but Sparkypants kept the communication going, fixed a boatload of bugs and generally made the game better. They didn't go "dun care lol" and ignore a giant mob with torches and pitchforks standing at their front door. Despite the absolutely horrendous first impression, they redeemed themselves in the eyes of the community by working under the conditions highly unfavourable for them, just to satisfy their customers, and are now quite liked. Amends have been made.

Epic Games, on the other hand, don't care about the people who tell them what aspects of their store can be improved, they will just keep making games exclusive for their platform - practice that consoles have been laughed at for for years - throwing money at them and hoping the problem solves itself. Say what you will about Valve, but they are willing to experiment with Steam, for better or worse, and take feedback from their community and developers. Epic Games will not do that, not in the foreseeable future at the rate we're going, at least.

Also, a question might arise from some: "But Epic Games still makes games, and Valve doesn't, therefore Epic is better". Let's take a look at Epic's latest games. Ever since their success with "Chest-High Wall Simulator" AKA Gears of War, they've been regurgitating this formula for almost a decade. Bulletstorm was essentially Gears of War - a dull, brown chest-high wall fest with fat space marines - but from first person perspective and less serious. Infinity Blade, an iOS exclusive trilogy of games, was removed in its entirety and is now derelict (you can still download and play them if you bought them, but is there much of a point to that?). Paragon and Unreal Tournament reboot were both killed in development to focus all of their teams on Fortnite. And Fortnite... Well, I'm fairly certain Save the World mode is basically dead until it goes F2P (and even then it's not a guarantee), and the Battle Royale will be milked until there's no life left. The game's only positive is the memes, and even then I wouldn't have missed much if the game was never created.

I tried to summarize my thoughts as concise and understandable as I could, but I am severely autistic, so it's nigh impossible. There are other issues that can be tackled, like Epic strong-arming devs from Steam with money and Unreal Engine, but I am not the person to do that. Steam isn't perfect either, of course, there is always room for improvement. A different company could've jacked the prices on games just for the convenience of not leaving your house, but having Steam as a monopoly, with its regional prices, regular sales and just generally good reputation for more than a decade, is not the worst. If there is a good competitor, people will start using it more than Steam. Epic Games Store is not that competitor.

Also, not being Tencent's bitch and not having spyware and malware might've helped not make a bad first impression. But because Tencent owns most of their stock, they'll oblige Epic to have them on their platform no matter what, so in the end this is all meaningless. You decide what you want more - a generally stable monopoly or a competitor that uses dirty tactics and malware.
 
Hey guys. You want to play Red Dead 2 on PC? Oh wait. You're gonna have to use the Epic Store for that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


Reminder: Outer Worlds was Published by Take 2. I fully believe this. I also believe Borderlands 3 was only a 6 month exclusive because Randy Pitchford wanted more money and they wouldn't budge.

Oh, and this won't be a timed exclusive. This will be permanent. So if you want it on Steam:


I guess I'm going back to pirating games. Especially since this is a single player one and I do not give a fuck about multiplayer and the multiplayer on RD2 is apparently trash.

With this argument still going back and forth, maybe start with the spyware issues with Epic Games Launcher?

Is it really true that said launcher is a Chinese spyware, or this is blown out of proportion? We do know that it does log into your Steam friends list and playtime for the games you played in your Steam library, but are all of these sent with Tencent and the Chinese government which can be a concern?

Its not blown out of proportion, it doesn't just inspect your Steam files, it goes through other things that have nothing to do with games. Being that Epic's capitalization is 48% owned by Tencent (The misnomer is that Tencent owns 40% of Epic. Its actually 48%, because it also owns a lot of its capatalization as well as employee stock options, which adds that extra 8%). 'No no, Tencent, a corporation owned and controlled by the Chinese government has no influence over Epic even though it controls most of its stock, capitalization and stock options for employees. There will be no Chinese influence whatsoever!' If you think that, nigger, you're dumb.

The fucking store doesn't even have a shopping cart and its inspecting shit on your computer it has no reason or right to inspect. You use it, I'm sorry but you're a fucking idiot. 'It'll get better!' It took Steam a decade to 'get better'. Alright, wait yourself a decade, I'll use the store that is already feature complete. The capital going into the Epic store is buying exclusives, not making the store better for you and me. If you think otherwise you have serious brain damage. Not to mention selling your data to China. So I'll do my patriotic American duty and not support a communist dick-sucking store that is trying to fuck over and control our entertainment so it can be a world power and censor shit just so greedy companies can get a slice of the market.

You want to deep throat Chinese cock so we get more censored content, be my guest faggots. I'll be a true American and say fuck the commies and do it the American way: by not paying for it and laughing at you suckers who do. Oh and developers aren't seeing a cent of these extra profits, they're going right to the publishers and executives. So don't give me that fucking shit.

EDIT:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the Chinese have sent directors and 'observers' over to Epic (these observers were 'chosen' by Epic, but it makes me laugh that they had to have observers in the first place and they constantly deny any influence China has over them. Sure guys, sure they don't. They just own 48% of you, no influence at all. I'm sure they expect nothing from this investment and let you do whatever you want). So if you really really believe this load of shit that Tim Sweeny and Epic say China has no influence over anything they do, I bet you're the person that believed in the Anthem E3 demo was real too.
 
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Hey guys. You want to play Red Dead 2 on PC? Oh wait. You're gonna have to use the Epic Store for that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


Reminder: Outer Worlds was Published by Take 2. I fully believe this. I also believe Borderlands 3 was only a 6 month exclusive because Randy Pitchford wanted more money and they wouldn't budge.

Oh, and this won't be a timed exclusive. This will be permanent. So if you want it on Steam:


I guess I'm going back to pirating games. Especially since this is a single player one and I do not give a fuck about multiplayer and the multiplayer on RD2 is apparently trash.



Its not blown out of proportion, it doesn't just inspect your Steam files, it goes through other things that have nothing to do with games. Being that Epic's capitalization is 48% owned by Tencent (The misnomer is that Tencent owns 40% of Epic. Its actually 48%, because it also owns a lot of its capatalization as well as employee stock options, which adds that extra 8%). 'No no, Tencent, a corporation owned and controlled by the Chinese government has no influence over Epic even though it controls most of its stock, capitalization and stock options for employees. There will be no Chinese influence whatsoever!' If you think that, nigger, you're dumb.

The fucking store doesn't even have a shopping cart and its inspecting shit on your computer it has no reason or right to inspect. You use it, I'm sorry but you're a fucking idiot. 'It'll get better!' It took Steam a decade to 'get better'. Alright, wait yourself a decade, I'll use the store that is already feature complete. The capital going into the Epic store is buying exclusives, not making the store better for you and me. If you think otherwise you have serious brain damage. Not to mention selling your data to China. So I'll do my patriotic American duty and not support a communist dick-sucking store that is trying to fuck over and control our entertainment so it can be a world power and censor shit just so greedy companies can get a slice of the market.

You want to deep throat Chinese cock so we get more censored content, be my guest faggots. I'll be a true American and say fuck the commies and do it the American way: by not paying for it and laughing at you suckers who do. Oh and developers aren't seeing a cent of these extra profits, they're going right to the publishers and executives. So don't give me that fucking shit.

EDIT:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the Chinese have sent directors and 'observers' over to Epic (these observers were 'chosen' by Epic, but it makes me laugh that they had to have observers in the first place and they constantly deny any influence China has over them. Sure guys, sure they don't. They just own 48% of you, no influence at all. I'm sure they expect nothing from this investment and let you do whatever you want). So if you really really believe this load of shit that Tim Sweeny and Epic say China has no influence over anything they do, I bet you're the person that believed in the Anthem E3 demo was real too.

I'd actually laugh at Take-Two if they only asked Epic for 6 figures to make RDR2 permanently exclusive to EGL. But really, I'm leaning towards doubt because I am suspect of a publisher asking only 6 figures to make exclusive a game that cost hundreds of millions to make and market, even though said game had already recouped those costs and more. They have investors to answer to, and I doubt any explanation about why they only asked so little when they can easily get 8 figures for an exclusive will fly with said investors.
 
I'd actually laugh at Take-Two if they only asked Epic for 6 figures to make RDR2 permanently exclusive to EGL. But really, I'm leaning towards doubt because I am suspect of a publisher asking only 6 figures to make exclusive a game that cost hundreds of millions to make and market, even though said game had already recouped those costs and more. They have investors to answer to, and I doubt any explanation about why they only asked so little when they can easily get 8 figures for an exclusive will fly with said investors.

If you watch the video, Gundam said it was a huge amount of money, enough for a triple A game. His insider told him that he couldn't say the full amount or it'd give him away. So I'm guessing the six-figure deal is a smokescreen. My bet is 25-50 million easy. Take2 isn't going to let that go for cheap.

FUCK! I would have bought this too. How long can Epic keep throwing money at Devs?

They made 3 billion last year, I'd say they've probably spent at least 100 million+ on exclusives. So awhile is the answer.
 
If you watch the video, Gundam said it was a huge amount of money, enough for a triple A game. His insider told him that he couldn't say the full amount or it'd give him away. So I'm guessing the six-figure deal is a smokescreen. My bet is 25-50 million easy. Take2 isn't going to let that go for cheap.

Yeah, this sounds about right.

They made 3 billion last year, I'd say they've probably spent at least 100 million+ on exclusives. So awhile is the answer.

Epic can also tap into Tencent money if they want to secure a lot of high-profile exclusives. Tencent is good for it.
 
Now RDR2 for PC is Epic exclusive?

I am console-first and this pisses me off.

Seriously the time is now to open that third eye of consumer responsibility and urge anyone who does it to stop licking the taint of any corporation, regardless if relevant to this thread. Deliberately missing key points for convenience sake is how the cult of Apple eats up a lie about data recovery. Wait until Epic lies by omission too, I'm sure their white knights will hit a roadblock and bug out.
 

Every single one of you need a dictionary.
monopoly [muh-nop-uh-lee]
  • 1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices
  • 2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
  • 3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
  • 4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
  • 5. a company or group that has such control.
  • 6. the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.
There are 20 digital storefronts for pc games. Mono means one for fuck's sake.
"The Epic Store is monopolizing game titles through exclusivity contracts." would be a true statement.
"Steam is a monopoly." is a false one.

The whole concept of the board game is to bankrupt the other players, forcing them to sell off their property and leaving the winner as the sole owner of the board, achieving a monopoly. Epic is cutting off the Boardwalk of games before the first dice roll.
 
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