Science Experiences of violence in the delivery room

HEALTH​

Experiences of violence in the delivery room​

During childbirth, many women feel they are victims of physical and psychological violence in the form of unannounced, painful grips on their abdomens and humiliation. Complaints are made about the lack of education. The "Kristeller maneuver" is also medically controversial.
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Between 82,000 and 86,000 children are born in Austria every year, 98.5 percent of them in a hospital. There are no surveys on how many women experience violence in the delivery room during childbirth. Subjective perception also plays a major role. However, women often describe great pain during the "Kristeller maneuver." This is when a doctor or midwife presses on the upper abdomen during the contraction to speed up the birth of the baby. Peter Husslein used to head Austria's largest maternity ward at Vienna General Hospital. His research influences how babies are born here: "We tried to find out with a study at the hospital whether the 'Kristeller hand hold' is basically useful, and there the answer was quite clear: No."

"Kristeller handle" has a tradition
Until the 1990s, the handgrip, which was developed as early as 1867 by German gynecologist Samuel Kristeller, was routinely used in nearly a quarter of all births under the motto "Faster with Kristeller." "There is no question that it is a physical assault for a woman if someone stands at the head of the bed and, without explaining anything, presses massively on the upper abdomen," Husslein told "Thema" and "ZIB Magazine." It could, of course, lead to birth injuries, because the head does not slowly but quickly stretch the soft tissues, the vagina and the vulva.

Binding conditions for application

The benefits are scientifically disputed and the risk of injury is high. In the United Kingdom and Norway, the "Kristeller hand grip" is not used, and in Germany, individual clinics have banned it, according to an article in "Die Hebamme. In 2020, the Austrian Society of Gynecology and Obstetrics regulated the handgrip in its "S3 Guideline on Vaginal Delivery at Term." "Fundal pressure" should only be considered in an emergency. Conditions: Consent including veto right of the woman and continuous communication.

Communication crucial
Psychotherapist Daniela Venturini cares for women who have suffered birth trauma. "If she (the woman giving birth, note) understands what exactly is being done, recognizes the meaningfulness and is self-determined, then she can also integrate great pain well: 'I'll push along a bit' is not enough as an explanation for the 'Kristeller hand grip'." The possible consequences of trauma are depression, anxiety disorders and post-traumatic stress disorder, he said. This also strongly influences the mother-child bond, which in turn influences the child's development. "Communication with the woman during childbirth determines whether she can handle it well, not the administration of painkillers," Venturini concludes from her study "Cesarean, vaginal and natural childbirth." She is able to quantify the vulnerability of childbearing women: "There is no time when women are more likely to experience a mental illness than during the pregnancy, birth, postpartum window. Eleven percent of all women develop depression, anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorders here for the first time in their lives."

Those affected speak of "ordeal"
Andrea Nikowitz gave birth to her daughter in October 2020 in Vienna, Veronika Konrad to her son six years ago. They experienced the births as a psychological and physical ordeal. Nikowitz told ORF that a midwife's sayings sent her into a panic. Konrad said she was scolded and a military tone prevailed. But both were particularly imprinted with a situation in the delivery room during the pushing contractions. "I was lying on my back like a bug, they were holding my legs and pushing from behind my head with full force on my belly. I screamed in pain, and afterwards my belly was all blue."

Serious consequences
The "Kristeller maneuver" was used on both Nikowitz and Konrad, according to their statements without education. Nikowitz was discharged after the birth in severe pain - a sacral fracture, it later turned out. Numerous doctor visits followed, and she suffered from panic attacks and anxiety. She saved herself by making music, taking photographs and following a mindfulness program for trauma management on the Internet. Konrad does osteopathic therapy with her son. She hasn't gotten over the birth trauma well: "Every birthday is an anniversary when everything comes up."

Clinics apologize
Andreas Brandstetter, head of the maternity department at St. Josef Hospital, where Nikowitz had given birth, told ORF: "Ms. Nikowitz was not picked up well emotionally by our midwife, and I am simply sorry for that. I can only apologize for that." The Hietzing Clinic, where Konrad had given birth to her son in 2017, also asked for an apology. Both clinics said there had been no alternative to the "Kristeller procedure" because the birth had to go quickly due to the child's poor heart tones.

Telling the experience of violence
On the homepage of Roses Revolution Austria there are numerous stories - most of them anonymous - of humiliation, unannounced, painful handholds and abuse of power by midwives and doctors during childbirth. Founder and midwife Margarete Wana noted that there is a lot of shame surrounding the issue. "'Just be happy you have a healthy baby!" women often hear. It's an important step for them to be believed for once." The elective midwife calls for better patient education, more staff in hospitals and, above all, targeted communication training in their education. And she wants to encourage women to share their experiences and also confront hospitals about them.

Contact points for those affected
The majority of Austria's maternity wards also offer psychological support. If the hospital staff does not point this out themselves, it is advisable for mothers and their companions to inquire about it. Clinics with psychiatric departments can also be points of contact. The clinics of the Vienna Health Network each have their own ombudsman's office. Legally, after traumatizing birth experiences, the interests of those affected are to be represented by patient ombudsmen. There is one in each federal state, and there are also other contact points. In Vienna, the Nanaya - Center for Pregnancy, Birth and Life with Children is a non-profit association that has also established itself as a contact point for help in crises. For pregnant women with a previous stress - be it from a past difficult birth or from another social, psychological or medical crisis - there is the possibility of free prenatal care in Vienna by a midwife from the Midwife Center Vienna as part of the pilot project. The UNUM Institute is a trauma and pain competence center that is currently seeking to combine offers of help for stressful pregnancies and births from a wide variety of fields into an Austria-wide network called "TrauBe" (for trauma care) in all provinces. "TrauBe" is only in the process of being established, contact can be made by mail to office@unum.institute. There is the possibility of contacting psychotherapists with a focus on pregnancy and birth. However, the costs are to be borne by the patients themselves, except for the amounts subsidized by the respective health insurance.​

Source (German)
 
Waffling around about the real, tangible harm that she suffered and focusing on how BIG SAD "her trauma" made her is not the way you get other people to care about this stuff.
Yeah that’s a very good point, and it’s female socialisation to a T. Men, if they regularly had to do something that carried a risk of anal tearing, forceps damage, massive blood loss and suchlike, wouldn’t be waffling about their feelings, they’d be putting (metaphorical, ahem) heads on spikes until the midwife team shaped up and graphic pictures of the damage they’d suffered in the press. Funnily enough that’s what Mr. O said - if we blokes had to do this we wouldn’t stand for it. We’d be forcing them to do it better or there’s be trouble.
Female socialisation eh?
 
Remember the thread a few weeks ago about rising maternal mortality rates in the US (and west) and my post about reasons why? Well here you are. Between the "natural" fad (at home without medical personal) and this type of stupidity.. More and more women are opting to not give birth in a hospital or medical setting. We are undoing decades, more than a century really, of medical advancement and good.
 
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I fractured my tailbone years ago and, yes, it hurt like an absolute motherfucker, but I didn't have "panic attacks" or need a "mindfulness program" to "manage my trauma".

God, women are absolutely insufferable in any language.


In typical for the farms style, the first ones rushing to comment on a sensitive issue concerning female anatomy are dumb faggots men who clearly not only haven't had a pregnant partner, they most likely haven't had a partner at all therefore they think vaginal birth can be compared to fractured tailbone. And baby is like a boil that you can just squeeze out of a woman's stomach.

I wonder, what prompts you and other male authorities in this thread to spew not only ignorance and total idiocy as far as the basic knowledge of biology goes, but also hatred for the female species to write such absolute twaddle. You either had a shitty mother or self loath for whatever life punished you with and take it out on an easy target.

Guys in this thread whos comments are similar to the donkey's I quoted above, what the fuck is wrong with you? Do you see women rushing to mock when things like circumcision, erectile dysfunction or prostate cancer are being discussed?

Don't be like a bunch of trannies who think they know what it's like to be a "wimmin". Maybe if you experience what it's like to be spreadeagled and having to squeeze a watermelon through your asshole in front of medical staff then you will have perhaps a very slight idea what it's like to give birth and how traumatic many births are for women.

The maneuver discussed in the article should be outlawed in every country. Back in a day (70s) they did it in Poland but it's not practiced anymore because of the sheer brutality of it.
 
In typical for the farms style, the first ones rushing to comment on a sensitive issue concerning female anatomy are dumb faggots men who clearly not only haven't had a pregnant partner, they most likely haven't had a partner at all therefore they think vaginal birth can be compared to fractured tailbone.
Did you even read the article? The incredible irony of you claiming that I "rushed to comment".

Fuck off.
 
Did you even read the article? The incredible irony of you claiming that I "rushed to comment".

Fuck off.

Yes i did. Clearly you didn't or even if you did you wouldn't understand it anyway since you appear to be as intelligent as a a door knob with a personality to boot. Stop embarrassing yourself any further by trying to contribute anything of value to this thread since everything about you screams "I haven't seen a real vagina in my life and Im mad about it".
 
everything about you screams "I haven't seen a real vagina in my life and Im mad about it".
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Jesus I thought I was going insane lol. Two friends of mine recently gave birth, and both of them were treated like actual shit the entire time. One was told it's relatively painless if "Everything goes fine." So when she felt real pain (baby was late by a bit and quite big anyway), she freaked out and the attendings shouted at her. The other barely felt a thing, and got called irresponsible and ridiculous because she was 9cm dilated but was coping pretty well with the pain and didn't realise she needed to go in. The maternity care in the UK is a joke and I'm glad I'm not the only person disgusted by it. They were just happy to have a complication free birth and get home, but if that were my girlfriend I'd biting doctors.

My best friend gave birth in UK and she said it was a shit show. The doctors are good but the nurses are the problem. UK hospitals are underfunded and understaffed and Brexit made things worse. She said several nurses on her floor (since most of them nowadays are from 3rd world countries) could barely speak English. How the fuck can you hire medical staff that's unable to communicate with the patient?
Yeah that’s a very good point, and it’s female socialisation to a T. Men, if they regularly had to do something that carried a risk of anal tearing, forceps damage, massive blood loss and suchlike, wouldn’t be waffling about their feelings, they’d be putting (metaphorical, ahem) heads on spikes until the midwife team shaped up and graphic pictures of the damage they’d suffered in the press. Funnily enough that’s what Mr. O said - if we blokes had to do this we wouldn’t stand for it. We’d be forcing them to do it better or there’s be trouble.
Female socialisation eh?

Also the fact that the myth of magical pregnancy still exists. You know "such a special time" and all the "pregnancy glow", don't get me wrong for many women it is like that but not for the most. New moms go through so much after their baby arrives they probably don't have the energy to be complaining and getting mad after horrible treatment during the delivery. There is still a lot of taboo subjects surrounding pregnancy and motherhood but I'd like to think overall things have gotten better than they were 40 years ago mostly because people aren't ashamed to describe their experiences and these things (hopefully) raise standards little by little. The sad thing is that the most affected will be poor, uneducated, single women.

Yes, that's right incel. Also, kill yourself faggots.
For a Pole, you're very American.

I'll take it as a compliment.
 
My best friend gave birth in UK and she said it was a shit show. The doctors are good but the nurses are the problem. UK hospitals are underfunded and understaffed and Brexit made things worse. She said several nurses on her floor (since most of them nowadays are from 3rd world countries) could barely speak English. How the fuck can you hire medical staff that's unable to communicate with the patient?
Because it's cheaper in the short term to do that, than actually invest in and give a fuck about training our own staff. Ignoring that they account for nearly 60% of all malpractise cases despite being like 10% of the staff. Ignore the massive spike in sexual violations that nurses and patients are subject to. Ignore the spike in child and early baby deaths that have resulted. Ignore the massive devaulation of our own qualifications and job experience on the general health market that comes with lumping in barely trained 3rd worlders into our own medical system.

It's a fucking joke. Not a funny one either.

EDIT: One of the many reasons I didn't go into medicine, was because you have to shadow someone in the NHS before you can realistically apply here. I followed around someone for ~8 months, and the sheer disregard for patient comfort, safety, and decency was genuinely unsettling. A&E wards are like warzones; nurses couldn't give a fuck, the Doctors are either anti-social autists with zero empathy; foreigners with zero knowledge, or burnt out middle aged dudes minutes from a heart attack. The medical industry is not dignified, it's basically a meat processing plant/
 
Modern women lie* about so much of their 'life experiences' I've stopped believing pretty much everything they complain about these days especially shit like this. From an evolutionary standpoint a massively traumatic and painful childbirth makes absolutly no sense. I've seen monkeys give birth with barely a whimper as it would give away the location of the troop to predators.

I am a childbirth pain denier. chad.jpg

*It's not so much they lie, their experience of reality seems to be very malliable, they will reconstruct their experiences to a desired outcome. Which in modern women is unending sympathy and attention/victimhood.
see also their tales of "sexual harassment/assault"
 
Good topic, really bad execution. Come on, giving birth is a complicated process and of course there will be many hands around you checking every time. Be grateful all that care is given to you and your baby, that care didn't exist 100 years ago.

With that being said, it's not uncommon that hospitals want to rush as many births as possible. A woman in labor can be on it for hours, and those hours "take" time and resources from the hospital, both in equipment and people. That's why c-sections became so common. I remember the statistics of certain hospitals and countries saying natural births became rare. C-sections are not laughing matter. If it was just a quick solution to avoid pain and be done with it quick, I wouldn't mind, but once you give a woman a c-section, something that's an emergency procedure, you fuck her life for ever. The uterus is never the same again. That's why it's only for emergencies and being short of people in the hospital is not an emergency.

Makes me wonder if this end state socialised healthcare where overly stressed, underpaid essentially government workers are turning the process into a sociopathic production line due to complete and utter loss of control of the underlying costs.
Yes.

But private hospitals or clinics are also having more c-sections than they should be because these pay more and are quicker than natural births. Women should not have elective c-sections. Delivery is a natural process that can't be rushed. Unless there are actual problems that can lead to a c-section, the pain of giving birth it's something that can be deal with. By the time you have your baby and both are fine, you forget about it.
 
Modern women lie* about so much of their 'life experiences' I've stopped believing pretty much everything they complain about these days especially shit like this. From an evolutionary standpoint a massively traumatic and painful childbirth makes absolutly no sense. I've seen monkeys give birth with barely a whimper as it would give away the location of the troop to predators.

I am a childbirth pain denier. chad.jpg

*It's not so much they lie, their experience of reality seems to be very malliable, they will reconstruct their experiences to a desired outcome. Which in modern women is unending sympathy and attention/victimhood.
see also their tales of "sexual harassment/assault"
coming in with generalization isn't helping the case.
 
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Modern women lie* about so much of their 'life experiences' I've stopped believing pretty much everything they complain about these days especially shit like this. From an evolutionary standpoint a massively traumatic and painful childbirth makes absolutly no sense. I've seen monkeys give birth with barely a whimper as it would give away the location of the troop to predators.
That's not really how that works. We aren't subject to the same selective pressures as other animals, and haven't really been since we started using tools. We hunt and live as tribes; in such a way that noise, and lots of it; aren't really an issue for us. Since we're big enough and armed enough for most predators to not bother, especially after we got access to fire. Evolution doesn't select for really, it selects against. There wasn't a large enough quantity of dead mothers that screamed to make an impact to select against us having retard huge heads and narrow hips.
 
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