Science Experiences of violence in the delivery room

HEALTH​

Experiences of violence in the delivery room​

During childbirth, many women feel they are victims of physical and psychological violence in the form of unannounced, painful grips on their abdomens and humiliation. Complaints are made about the lack of education. The "Kristeller maneuver" is also medically controversial.
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Between 82,000 and 86,000 children are born in Austria every year, 98.5 percent of them in a hospital. There are no surveys on how many women experience violence in the delivery room during childbirth. Subjective perception also plays a major role. However, women often describe great pain during the "Kristeller maneuver." This is when a doctor or midwife presses on the upper abdomen during the contraction to speed up the birth of the baby. Peter Husslein used to head Austria's largest maternity ward at Vienna General Hospital. His research influences how babies are born here: "We tried to find out with a study at the hospital whether the 'Kristeller hand hold' is basically useful, and there the answer was quite clear: No."

"Kristeller handle" has a tradition
Until the 1990s, the handgrip, which was developed as early as 1867 by German gynecologist Samuel Kristeller, was routinely used in nearly a quarter of all births under the motto "Faster with Kristeller." "There is no question that it is a physical assault for a woman if someone stands at the head of the bed and, without explaining anything, presses massively on the upper abdomen," Husslein told "Thema" and "ZIB Magazine." It could, of course, lead to birth injuries, because the head does not slowly but quickly stretch the soft tissues, the vagina and the vulva.

Binding conditions for application

The benefits are scientifically disputed and the risk of injury is high. In the United Kingdom and Norway, the "Kristeller hand grip" is not used, and in Germany, individual clinics have banned it, according to an article in "Die Hebamme. In 2020, the Austrian Society of Gynecology and Obstetrics regulated the handgrip in its "S3 Guideline on Vaginal Delivery at Term." "Fundal pressure" should only be considered in an emergency. Conditions: Consent including veto right of the woman and continuous communication.

Communication crucial
Psychotherapist Daniela Venturini cares for women who have suffered birth trauma. "If she (the woman giving birth, note) understands what exactly is being done, recognizes the meaningfulness and is self-determined, then she can also integrate great pain well: 'I'll push along a bit' is not enough as an explanation for the 'Kristeller hand grip'." The possible consequences of trauma are depression, anxiety disorders and post-traumatic stress disorder, he said. This also strongly influences the mother-child bond, which in turn influences the child's development. "Communication with the woman during childbirth determines whether she can handle it well, not the administration of painkillers," Venturini concludes from her study "Cesarean, vaginal and natural childbirth." She is able to quantify the vulnerability of childbearing women: "There is no time when women are more likely to experience a mental illness than during the pregnancy, birth, postpartum window. Eleven percent of all women develop depression, anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorders here for the first time in their lives."

Those affected speak of "ordeal"
Andrea Nikowitz gave birth to her daughter in October 2020 in Vienna, Veronika Konrad to her son six years ago. They experienced the births as a psychological and physical ordeal. Nikowitz told ORF that a midwife's sayings sent her into a panic. Konrad said she was scolded and a military tone prevailed. But both were particularly imprinted with a situation in the delivery room during the pushing contractions. "I was lying on my back like a bug, they were holding my legs and pushing from behind my head with full force on my belly. I screamed in pain, and afterwards my belly was all blue."

Serious consequences
The "Kristeller maneuver" was used on both Nikowitz and Konrad, according to their statements without education. Nikowitz was discharged after the birth in severe pain - a sacral fracture, it later turned out. Numerous doctor visits followed, and she suffered from panic attacks and anxiety. She saved herself by making music, taking photographs and following a mindfulness program for trauma management on the Internet. Konrad does osteopathic therapy with her son. She hasn't gotten over the birth trauma well: "Every birthday is an anniversary when everything comes up."

Clinics apologize
Andreas Brandstetter, head of the maternity department at St. Josef Hospital, where Nikowitz had given birth, told ORF: "Ms. Nikowitz was not picked up well emotionally by our midwife, and I am simply sorry for that. I can only apologize for that." The Hietzing Clinic, where Konrad had given birth to her son in 2017, also asked for an apology. Both clinics said there had been no alternative to the "Kristeller procedure" because the birth had to go quickly due to the child's poor heart tones.

Telling the experience of violence
On the homepage of Roses Revolution Austria there are numerous stories - most of them anonymous - of humiliation, unannounced, painful handholds and abuse of power by midwives and doctors during childbirth. Founder and midwife Margarete Wana noted that there is a lot of shame surrounding the issue. "'Just be happy you have a healthy baby!" women often hear. It's an important step for them to be believed for once." The elective midwife calls for better patient education, more staff in hospitals and, above all, targeted communication training in their education. And she wants to encourage women to share their experiences and also confront hospitals about them.

Contact points for those affected
The majority of Austria's maternity wards also offer psychological support. If the hospital staff does not point this out themselves, it is advisable for mothers and their companions to inquire about it. Clinics with psychiatric departments can also be points of contact. The clinics of the Vienna Health Network each have their own ombudsman's office. Legally, after traumatizing birth experiences, the interests of those affected are to be represented by patient ombudsmen. There is one in each federal state, and there are also other contact points. In Vienna, the Nanaya - Center for Pregnancy, Birth and Life with Children is a non-profit association that has also established itself as a contact point for help in crises. For pregnant women with a previous stress - be it from a past difficult birth or from another social, psychological or medical crisis - there is the possibility of free prenatal care in Vienna by a midwife from the Midwife Center Vienna as part of the pilot project. The UNUM Institute is a trauma and pain competence center that is currently seeking to combine offers of help for stressful pregnancies and births from a wide variety of fields into an Austria-wide network called "TrauBe" (for trauma care) in all provinces. "TrauBe" is only in the process of being established, contact can be made by mail to office@unum.institute. There is the possibility of contacting psychotherapists with a focus on pregnancy and birth. However, the costs are to be borne by the patients themselves, except for the amounts subsidized by the respective health insurance.​

Source (German)
 
but the issue behind it really is real.
Makes me wonder if this end state socialised healthcare where overly stressed, underpaid essentially government workers are turning the process into a sociopathic production line due to complete and utter loss of control of the underlying costs.
 
What I hear from a lot of first time mums is that they had no idea it was so painful and they felt lied to.
But it's childbirth. Like, even guys know it's painful. How is this even possible?
You’d be fucking furious.
That's probably why they treated you differently with your husband present. Something happens to mother otter and daddy otter just might do something about it, so they should be on their best behavior.
 
Makes me wonder if this end state socialised healthcare where overly stressed, underpaid essentially government workers are turning the process into a sociopathic production line due to complete and utter loss of control of the underlying costs.
That is a scary thought. Its just a hive, who cares if a few die?
It’s that, plus a loss of professionalism. We had some really good experiences with an elderly relative in one of the few cottage hospitals left - nice staff, nice building, just a feeling the elderly were cared for rather than a pest to be dealt with. Nurses busy but not worked to death, just a sense of humanity. That lower density makes a difference.
I read once that how much doctors get sued in the states is slightly more related to how nice they are to patients than how many they kill.
 
This is all happening becasue some of these pieces of shit have forgotten they serve the public, not the other way around and they have been isolated from causality for too long. I think they also select for sociopathy in their hiring because i've noticed patterns in my interactions (esp with nurses) where I come away wondering how they are allowed to care for anyone.

I'm gonna stop posting about this because the more i think about it the more mad I get.

Have a rona cringe collage. I can't find the REALLY good one featuring a photo of the mom forced to put her newborn in what amounted to a freezer bag to hold it in a Safe and Effective™ manner.
VaxCringe2.jpg

The Sneedles - A Day in the Strife

I read the news today, oh boy
About a troon who died of climate change
And though the news was rather sad
Well, I just had to laugh
I saw his instagram

He blew his heart up with a vax
He didn't notice that the science had changed
A crowd of people stood and stared
They'd seen his face before
Nobody was really sure if he had been a janitor

I saw a film today, oh boy
A Jewish comedian had just won the polls
A crowd of people cheered “hurray!”
But I was not surprised
I checked his early life

I'd love to call you out

Woke up, fell out of bed
Put a wig on my bald head
Found my way downstairs and took my pills
Then I looked down, I needed to dilate

Found my coat and grabbed my hat
Made the bus in seconds flat
Found my way upstairs and had a stroke
And somebody spoke and said “it is working!”

I read the news today, oh boy
Four thousand holes in Sao Paulo, Brazil
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fake a higher death toll

I'd love to call you out
 
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How does pushing on the abdomen force the baby out? Also I had no idea how shit pregnancy care for women is in the UK. God awful.

I read once that how much doctors get sued in the states is slightly more related to how nice they are to patients than how many they kill.
Harder to prove they killed someone than they were rude to me.
 
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Some women are woefully underprepared and some antenatal classes are absolutely shit. I went to some and left becasue it was all ‘breathe the baby out’ and one woman who asked about ‘what is the best way to cope with x and y issues?’ Was told not to be negative. What I hear from a lot of first time mums is that they had no idea it was so painful and they felt lied to.
Jesus I thought I was going insane lol. Two friends of mine recently gave birth, and both of them were treated like actual shit the entire time. One was told it's relatively painless if "Everything goes fine." So when she felt real pain (baby was late by a bit and quite big anyway), she freaked out and the attendings shouted at her. The other barely felt a thing, and got called irresponsible and ridiculous because she was 9cm dilated but was coping pretty well with the pain and didn't realise she needed to go in. The maternity care in the UK is a joke and I'm glad I'm not the only person disgusted by it. They were just happy to have a complication free birth and get home, but if that were my girlfriend I'd biting doctors.
 
It can actually be rather dangerous to disregard the mother in the birthing process. In the Bad Old Days before patient advocacy and women's rights were pretty academic (1970s Australia) one of my aunts was in a labour ward with her third delivery. Having had two prior deliveries, she was certain that she felt something very wrong with the third. She tried telling multiple staff members that there was a problem but they all dismissed her, and one told her that she was a 'stupid woman'. Well, time went on, no baby appeared, and eventually the medical staff realised that they needed to investigate. My baby cousin was stuck in a position where he couldn't exit the birth canal without aid. Since he was stuck for so long, he ended up with oxygen deprecation brain damage, is a fifty year old man with the mind of a two year old. If the medical staff had listened to my aunt and acted appropriately when she told them that something was wrong, it's very likely that my cousin would have been born with little to no brain damage and had a normal life.

It is really important to listen to mothers in the process of giving birth. I've no doubt that many of them are just freaking out (perfectly understandable, especially if they're having their first) but there's a ridiculous amount of things that can go wrong. Humans are not like livestock, our massive heads and modified upright spines and pelvises make for an insanely dangerous process. There's a reason why giving birth used to be the leading cause of death in women for most of human history. It's alarming that we're going back to the Dark Ages with it.
 
One was told it's relatively painless if "Everything goes fine."
What the actual fuck? I've never had kids and even I know that's absolute bullshit. Pretty much all the women I've known who gave birth said that it was the most agonisingly painful experience of their entire life.
 
What the actual fuck? I've never had kids and even I know that's absolute bullshit. Pretty much all the women I've known who gave birth said that it was the most agonisingly painful experience of their entire life.
There’s a whole industry spring up around telling women they can ‘hypno birth’ and as long as they breathe fine they’ll pop babby out no issues. Now breathing and control techniques are really really useful (used them myself) when things are going ok and it’s just the ‘fucking hell this hurts’ part of labour. But sometimes things go wrong, and no amount of breathing and thinking calm thoughts will fix it. Things like what happened to @glass_houses uncle for example. That’s the point the scalpels and forceps (shudder) come out and things get very nasty very fast.
And becasue women cannot manage to not get one over each other this indistry also makes women feel guilty for not being able to breathe a baby out or for having a section when the alternative is both of you dying. (Serious message to any pregnant Kiwis - take all parenting sites with a massive pinch of salt because they’re all insane, and tell anyone who has a birthing or parenting ‘method’ to do one.)
So yes, there are women who think it’ll be fine and they get a nasty shock becasue even the best birth hurts. If they’ve primed themselves for a ‘pain free hypno birth’ and they get a tear through at stage four (anal, irreparable really, you’ll never be the same) or forceps or just a bad experience they blame themsleves, the doctors are being shitty to them and the so called support groups are being shitty to them to and telling them they just didn’t breathe enough. It’s no wonder women get PPD.
Women are not listened to - ALL the women I know who were injured during birth, or in the aftermath, all of them, every single one said something was wrong, every one was ignored and belittled. It really is a terrible problem.
 
The article is a bit fluffy, but the experience of a ‘bad’ birth is horrific, and women can be treated terribly. I have one friend who’s pelvis was cracked in two places during a forceps delivery plus coccyx fracture. She lost almost two lites of blood, denied a transfusion, and when she couldn’t walk properly afterwards she was told she was moaning. It took her almost a year to get an X ray on her pelvis by which time some of the damage had healed (badly) and she needed an operation to re break the coccyx and fix it. I know one woman who was given stitches on a fourth degree tear ‘nice and tight for your husband.’ Women who have had third and fourth degree tears sewn up so badly by juniors with zero anaesthesia . I know a woman who’s baby died during a c section and she was mocked by the staff. I know someone who’s anaesthetic wore off during the section and she was not believed at first when she said ‘I can feel what you’re doing.’ I have nerve damage in a hip from being manhandled.
Almost every woman I know has a tale of being made to feel like shit. I’ve given birth in two different countries and I started taking my husband with me to appointments because the way they treated me changed dramatically when he was there. He actually said to me that it shocked him and changed his mind on how women can be treated - and most of the worst offenders were other women.
Absolutely - that's nightmarish. Which makes it all the more confusing that you (just some person on the Internet) can write something infinitely more horrifying and compelling than this article and its obsession with "I felt like this" and "I feel like that" and "I was talked to in a militaristic tone" and "I'm doing a mindfulness program".

Waffling around about the real, tangible harm that she suffered and focusing on how BIG SAD "her trauma" made her is not the way you get other people to care about this stuff.
 
It can actually be rather dangerous to disregard the mother in the birthing process. In the Bad Old Days before patient advocacy and women's rights were pretty academic (1970s Australia) one of my aunts was in a labour ward with her third delivery. Having had two prior deliveries, she was certain that she felt something very wrong with the third. She tried telling multiple staff members that there was a problem but they all dismissed her, and one told her that she was a 'stupid woman'. Well, time went on, no baby appeared, and eventually the medical staff realised that they needed to investigate. My baby cousin was stuck in a position where he couldn't exit the birth canal without aid. Since he was stuck for so long, he ended up with oxygen deprecation brain damage, is a fifty year old man with the mind of a two year old. If the medical staff had listened to my aunt and acted appropriately when she told them that something was wrong, it's very likely that my cousin would have been born with little to no brain damage and had a normal life.

It is really important to listen to mothers in the process of giving birth. I've no doubt that many of them are just freaking out (perfectly understandable, especially if they're having their first) but there's a ridiculous amount of things that can go wrong. Humans are not like livestock, our massive heads and modified upright spines and pelvises make for an insanely dangerous process. There's a reason why giving birth used to be the leading cause of death in women for most of human history. It's alarming that we're going back to the Dark Ages with it.
Dark Ages would honestly be better, since you'd typically be surrounded by other women that also had given birth and understood the reality of it. Instead of uncaring, unsympathetic doctors that see you as Patient#455535 that needs to shut up and do as she's told by her betters.

EDIT: Also, for any that don't know. When you give your medical consent for shit, they just hand you a form and say 'tick all' - or they did for me when I had to have a camera down my throat - which I how I ended up with like eight random nurses in training, my own age peering intently at my guts. Funny for me since I was also peering at my guts, but I imagine for a woman giving birth it would be less than fun.
 
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Wtf
View attachment 5066219
"Let's elbow drop this baby outta here", said the licensed medical doctor.

(The text says "push on the bottom of the uterus with the elbow", "effective only if the fetus is already about to come out", "painful for the mother, not without risks for the fetus")
Definitely dont let gravity assist in the birthing process in any way, right?
 
Dark Ages would honestly be better, since you'd typically be surrounded by other women that also had given birth and understood the reality of it. Instead of uncaring, unsympathetic doctors that see you as Patient#455535 that needs to shut up and do as she's told by her betters.

EDIT: Also, for any that don't know. When you give your medical consent for shit, they just hand you a form and say 'tick all' - or they did for me when I had to have a camera down my throat - which I how I ended up with like eight random nurses in training, my own age peering intently at my guts. Funny for me since I was also peering at my guts, but I imagine for a woman giving birth it would be less than fun.
in the Dark Ages they didn't understand sanitation, though. that's why so many births failed.
 
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