Fallout series

[exball]

Tale of Two Wastelands 2.7 got released. It's an .ESP now.
https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/alpha-download-v271a

 

[exball]

BUMP

Does anyone think the NCR or the legion will ever move out to the east coast? Because there's a lot of potential for conflict if they start moving east. There's the Midwest and DC branches of the BoS, also the Institute is out east. Thoughts?

 

[A-Stump]

BUMP

Does anyone think the NCR or the legion will ever move out to the east coast? Because there's a lot of potential for conflict if they start moving east. There's the Midwest and DC branches of the BoS, also the Institute is out east. Thoughts?

I don't think the Institute would actually serve as any form of opposition. From what I gathered they're basically just a bunch of scientists who have walled themselves up at the university to further research on Pre-War tech. Pretty much their only defense are the androids but they're a rarity and probably not something they'd throw out as cannon fodder.

 

[Burned Man]

BUMP

Does anyone think the NCR or the legion will ever move out to the east coast? Because there's a lot of potential for conflict if they start moving east. There's the Midwest and DC branches of the BoS, also the Institute is out east. Thoughts?

I believe that both groups will try to move east but in order for that to happen one of them will have to destroy the other. I can't see the NCR making big pushes east with the Legion still in the way. The Legion could continue to go east trying to absorb more tribals but I think pride would ultimately keep them clashing with the NCR instead. I think the Midwest Brotherhood would be in a position to stop any expansion from both factions for awhile at least. Their vehicles, power armor, symbiotic relationship with the locals, make them a force to be reckoned with.

I don't think the Institute would actually serve as any form of opposition. From what I gathered they're basically just a bunch of scientists who have walled themselves up at the university to further research on Pre-War tech. Pretty much their only defense are the androids but they're a rarity and probably not something they'd throw out as cannon fodder.

I wonder what factions exist in the Commonwealth other than the Institute or since Fallout 3 they have taken a firmer hold of the region. The Legion would tear them apart but the NCR might be willing to cut some deals with them,

 

[exball]

I wonder what factions exist in the Commonwealth other than the Institute or since Fallout 3 they have taken a firmer hold of the region. The Legion would tear them apart but the NCR might be willing to cut some deals with them,

I find it hard to believe the Legion would tear them apart. That far east and cut off from any major support the Legion is fucked against superhuman androids and energy weapons. That's IF they get past the midwest Brotherhood, the only chapter with Super Mutants and Ghouls in it.

 

[Ravenor]

The cannon is the legion die off, and become what the FO:NV Khans where.
There was a quite awesome fanfic called New California dreaming about a NCR scout getting as far as DC.

In the Lore preestablished before FO3, the NCR is prity much the only place to have got it's shit together in North America and anything even close to it hasn't got the man power or resource to deal with the kind of threat the NCR poses. Hell they are the only people involkved in post war reconstruction not just refitting old buildings but they where rebuilding Shady Sands in FO2, and it was mentioned that they had built the first post war skyscraper, and in NV they where rebuilding the railways.
Unless they met a faction doing the same in the mid west they would win on attrition alone, they have the man power, the tech and the skill's needed to win a protracted fight.

 

[A-Stump]

I find it hard to believe the Legion would tear them apart. That far east and cut off from any major support the Legion is fucked against superhuman androids and energy weapons. That's IF they get past the midwest Brotherhood, the only chapter with Super Mutants and Ghouls in it.

That's pretty much the best thing about the Legion; They are expert raiders and being on the move. They have mastered the ability to conquer and no group (I'm guessing) rival their pure relentless warmongering in the East. The Brotherhood are about the strongest thing in the DC wastes, I don't really consider the super mutants to be much of a threat to the Legion as they're only dangerous against lone people or small communities.

 

[exball]

That's pretty much the best thing about the Legion; They are expert raiders and being on the move. They have mastered the ability to conquer and no group (I'm guessing) rival their pure relentless warmongering in the East. The Brotherhood are about the strongest thing in the DC wastes, I don't really consider the super mutants to be much of a threat to the Legion as they're only dangerous against lone people or small communities.

I'm gonna disagree there. Legion has proven their tactics work well against other tribals and things like Super mutants. Their tactics tend to be send the recruits in, promote the survivors than send in the veterans. Common sense isn't in their standard repertoire Much as I like the Legion, without someone like Vulpus or Lanius commanding the expedition, they're fucked. DC is filled to the brim with Mutants, Radiation, and every raider is basically a Fiend. Without a contentious supply of Legionnaires and conquering raider gangs they'd quickly be overwhelmed.

 

[A-Stump]

I'm gonna disagree there. Legion has proven their tactics work well against other tribals and things like Super mutants. Their tactics tend to be send the recruits in, promote the survivors than send in the veterans. Common sense isn't in their standard repertoire Much as I like the Legion, without someone like Vulpus or Lanius commanding the expedition, they're fucked. DC is filled to the brim with Mutants, Radiation, and every raider is basically a Fiend. Without a contentious supply of Legionnaires and conquering raider gangs they'd quickly be overwhelmed.

Well, I don't really know why you're questioning their survivalist abilities. In terms of staying alive, they are bar none the best in any location. They were tribalists before being collected by Caesar meaning they have homemade radiation treatments, medicine they can make themselves scrounged from whatever, can make a meal out of anything, and pretty much any object is deadly in their hands. People in the DC ruins even after so many years live a 'civilized' life. They scrounge off of pre-war tech and supplies just like the NCR does.

 

[Ravenor]

That's pretty much the best thing about the Legion; They are expert raiders and being on the move. They have mastered the ability to conquer and no group (I'm guessing) rival their pure relentless warmongering in the East. The Brotherhood are about the strongest thing in the DC wastes, I don't really consider the super mutants to be much of a threat to the Legion as they're only dangerous against lone people or small communities.

Not really, they won tribes over by force or by buying them out. They won there wars by having more men to throw at somthing than the other side did to defend it just like the Soviet army did, The only reason Caesar placed so many troops at the other end of the Dam was to be the NCR's Stalingrad and try a war of attrition, the most they did was have a single outpost the odd spy and assassination squad come over the river, now if they where raiders there is BIG chunks of NCR territory in Nevada that are wide open (The whole bottom of the map) they could have launched raiding parties into and really give the NCR a bad time, this they did not do they just sat down on the northern side of the dam and camped out.

They where also a little technologically impaired, the NCR was equipping there army with a standardized set of weapons the Legion wasn't and focused mainly on melee weapons. Also the medical provisions where off the NCR had combat medics the legion didn't they refused to use stim packs anyware but in there special forces the design docs stated they didn't trust the old world technology as that's what lead to the great war of 2077. It was rare for them to use so the whole legion army even if they did not have battle casualties would already have a % of troops wounded through poverty conditions, and when the NCR kicked arse at the battle of the dam how many of them would survive to be a effective fighting force afterwards that survived as wounded.

 

[exball]

Well, I don't really know why you're questioning their survivalist abilities. In terms of staying alive, they are bar none the best in any location. They were tribalists before being collected by Caesar meaning they have homemade radiation treatments, medicine they can make themselves scrounged from whatever, can make a meal out of anything, and pretty much any object is deadly in their hands. People in the DC ruins even after so many years live a 'civilized' life. They scrounge off of pre-war tech and supplies just like the NCR does.

I'm less questioning their overall survival skills and more their ability to adapt to a completely alien environment. I'm not sure Legion has tried to survive in such an urban environment. Legion is used to surviving in the desert where things grow. Nothing really grows in DC so they'd be forced to find alternative treatments or begin farming themselves. Also DC was heavily nuked and has some of the highest levels of radiation in the U.S (Nowhere close to the Pitt though.) All of the homemade radiation treatments don't really compare to Rad-away. And really, to get anywhere they have to deal with the Brotherhood first.

 

[Burned Man]

I find it hard to believe the Legion would tear them apart. That far east and cut off from any major support the Legion is fucked against superhuman androids and energy weapons. That's IF they get past the midwest Brotherhood, the only chapter with Super Mutants and Ghouls in it.

I figured that they wouldn't be sending long range expeditions but more of a slow advance that locked down territory before continuing. I mean it would take decades before they reached the Institute but they would have way more men to commit to the siege. Of course who knows how far the Institute's technology could advance in those decades.

I'm less questioning their overall survival skills and more their ability to adapt to a completely alien environment. I'm not sure Legion has tried to survive in such an urban environment. Legion is used to surviving in the desert where things grow. Nothing really grows in DC so they'd be forced to find alternative treatments or begin farming themselves. Also DC was heavily nuked and has some of the highest levels of radiation in the U.S (Nowhere close to the Pitt though.) All of the homemade radiation treatments don't really compare to Rad-away. And really, to get anywhere they have to deal with the Brotherhood first.

I assumed that every time the Legion inducts a new Tribe they adopt their best fighting techniques and survival skills and drill that into the rest of Legions. I figure as they push East into new climates they will meet more tribes with more versatile survivalist skills maybe including tribes living in urban environments. I would imagine that the conflict with Midwest Brotherhood would be about who could get the most tribals on their side.

 

[A-Stump]

The Legion technically began in Colorado which isn't a desert (or well, as far as I know in Fallout. Could be.) As it spread east, it would be absorbing tribes everywhere. The Legion doesn't move quickly; It's like a slow growing cancer on the states it has afflicted. If the Legion finally got to DC and Caesar was still alive, he'd have multitudes of fighting men underneath his control unseen in the west.

 

[exball]

Caesar was still alive

That's a pretty big if. Like you said, Legion progress is slow. They conqueror everything before moving on. Caesar isn't exactly a young guy. I'd imagine by the time they hit DC even Vulpus and Lanius will be dead.

 

[A-Stump]

That's the brilliance of the Legion. Even if the head guy dies, all of them have been drilled since they began to share the same ideals. They are fanatics. A hydra, if you will. You cut off one head, two more grow.

 

[exball]

As Marcus said, "The Legion follows Caesar, not Caesar's ideals." If you kill Caesar and let Lanius take over Legion begins to change, you just don't see much of it due to it being such a short window of time.

 

[Burned Man]

That's the brilliance of the Legion. Even if the head guy dies, all of them have been drilled since they began to share the same ideals. They are fanatics. A hydra, if you will. You cut off one head, two more grow.

I'm curious what happens when they forget that Caesar was a man and begin to start believing he was a god.

As Marcus said, "The Legion follows Caesar, not Caesar's ideals." If you kill Caesar and let Lanius take over Legion begins to change, you just don't see much of it due to it being such a short window of time.

I always felt Vulpus would try to change the way the Legion operated by undermining Lanius. The problem was Caesar was educated and had pre war knowledge about history and tactics that no one else in the Legion could achieve. The Legion always operated to his goals and ideals and those can easily be replaced once he's dead.

We all seem to be forgetting the wild card here. The Aliens could be coming back at anytime.

 

[exball]

I'm curious what happens when they forget that Caesar was a man and begin to start believing he was a god.

They already believe he's the son of Mars, it's only a matter of time.

I always felt Vulpus would try to change the way the Legion operated by undermining Lanius. The problem was Caesar was educated and had pre war knowledge about history and tactics that no one else in the Legion could achieve. The Legion always operated to his goals and ideals and those can easily be replaced once he's dead.

Yeah, defiantly feel like Vulpus would shadow rule using Lanius as his front.

We all seem to be forgetting the wild card here. The Aliens could be coming back at anytime.

I like the way you think.

 

[Ravenor]

That's the brilliance of the Legion. Even if the head guy dies, all of them have been drilled since they began to share the same ideals. They are fanatics. A hydra, if you will. You cut off one head, two more grow.

Not really, they where indoctrinated into the faith and to respect the office. If the current Caesar said the Sky is Green they would believe him.
Hell the original point of Ulysses, was to be a barromiter of how things where going for the courrirer, he was supposed to change his jacket's art when a solid decision was made one faction or the other.

 

[Watcher]