Fallout: The Frontier - Done, and it's a hilarious shitshow

[A_Callow_Youth]

You know, the more fucked up content could have worked, if it didn't read like some smut mod for Skyrim from the loverslab site. Execution and tone, among other things; COULD have made it work. But it doesn't, because the people involved simply didn't know what the fuck they were doing.

Hell, it might even have worked if they had just gated it all behind Wild Wasteland and provided a heads-up that their WW content gets weird.

Wild Wasteland unleashes the most bizarre and silly elements of post-apocalyptic America. Not for the faint of heart or the serious of temperament.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It does if it was nuked in the part 2 with the fucking president, meaning that it was their HQ, there could be no more. But what F3 does? "Well, actually there was even more and they all are under command of a computer, that you can DESTROY WITH HIGH SPEECH".

Same thing happened in Fallout New Vegas with Lanius. You can just dump enough speech points and win the final boss fight. And the difference is, Eden is sapient because of a computer malfunction, so I can buy someone talking him into oblivion. But Lanius? The guy whose entire rep is built around him being an invincible, ruthless bastard in combat, whose culture DOES NOT ACCEPT FAILURE!? (LOL Graham) Yeah, no. It makes even less sense that Lanius would turn tail and run, considering the fact that whether or not Caesar survives, Lanius would have been crucified or burned and tossed out of the Grand Canyon for cowardice.

...who is the leader of Enclave. And it's hilarious. "Well, actually, we are not genocidal maniacs anymore, even though we do the exactly the same thing that we were doing before".

Except Eden doesn't lead the Enclave. He's their propaganda guy. Autumn leads the Enclave, and when he tells the men to ignore Eden's orders, they do it. And when you show Autumn the FEV virus, he's like "we abandoned that plan!" Meaning that Eden tried and failed to get Autumn and his men in on the genocide plan. Autumn's only plan was to use water to get people to sign up with the Enclave. That makes him a warlord, not a genocidal prick.

Well, then The Last of Us 2 is the greatest game ever, got it.

Not even. FO3 genuinely made fans happy and got them to buy Fallout games. Many people got into Fallout through Fallout 3 and made it them fans for life. Last of Us 2 reduced the size of the game's fandom and just made people unhappy with Neil Druckmann and the series overall. TLOU2 destroyed the TLOU fandom, FO3 increased the fandom's size and saved a dying franchise from oblivion.

 

[Juan But Not Forgotten]

Same thing happened in Fallout New Vegas with Lanius.

Yeah, same. "You can't win this one, better run and regroup. - Ok, but the next time you're dead" vs "You should kill yourself, president nazi computer god. - Eh, why not?".

Except Eden doesn't lead the Enclave. He's their propaganda guy.

Oh, yeah, that's exactly why their base was full of vivisected mutants, ghouls and deathclaws.

FO3 genuinely made fans happy

Yeah, I remember how happy they were. So happy in fact, that they later praised New Vegas for some reason, despite it being the same 3D shooter in the Oblivion. Hell, all these exclusions of F3 from the canon by fans and inclusions of New Vegas, that's just some coincidence.

 

[Zaragoza]

You guys think the modding team for Miami and Cascadia are taking notes?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Yeah, same. "You can't win this one, better run and regroup. - Ok, but the next time you're dead" vs "You should kill yourself, president nazi computer god. - Eh, why not?".

Except again, Eden's sapient because of a computer glitch. Meanwhile, Lanius comes from a culture that executes people for failing. He should know, he's killed people just for that.

Lanius: "The Courier convinced me that Hoover Dam can't be taken. But next time, I will kill him/her!"
Caesar/Other Centurions: "You failed. PRAETORIANS! COVER THIS MAN IN PITCH AND THROW HIM IN THE GRAND CANYON!"

Oh, yeah, that's exactly why their base was full of vivisected mutants, ghouls and deathclaws.

Maybe because they were studying them? They had those in a lab, you know. Raven Rock was more than a radio station, after all. If you're dealing with mutants and radiation-based mutations, you need to STUDY that shit. Which is why there were also many scientists milling about in the labs where they keep those specimens.

Yeah, I remember how happy they were. So happy in fact, that they later praised New Vegas for some reason, despite it being the same 3D shooter in the Oblivion. Hell, all these exclusions of F3 from the canon by fans and inclusions of New Vegas, that's just some coincidence.

Funny. I remember there being many fans of the Enclave from FO3, especially guys who make long fanmade radio podcasts for Enclave fans using much of what FO3 laid as groundwork. And of course, there's also the fact that both it and Fallout 4 sold well with fans and Fallout 4 even continued the story from 3, while New Vegas, despite having the better story, sold less compared to FO3 and 4. Fallout 3 seems to be pretty popular for a game excluded from the canon by fans. Popular enough that it sold like crazy and its sequel that continued the story on the East Coast also sold like crazy.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

Oh, yeah, that's exactly why their base was full of vivisected mutants, ghouls and deathclaws.

None of those are people.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

None of those are people.

They were probably either test subjects or corpses that the boys outside brought in for study.

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

But Lanius? The guy whose entire rep is built around him being an invincible, ruthless bastard in combat, whose culture DOES NOT ACCEPT FAILURE!? (LOL Graham) Yeah, no.

I see this brought up a lot and always think it's stupid;
Lanius might be a human blender that blends humans, and an unparalleled tactician, but he's still a human. Humans are fallible and imperfect, prone to error. You're not calling Lanius a stinky poo poo butt and asking him to turn tail, you're either convincing him he's doomed to walk the same path as Graham or that the Legion will be too barren to hold on its newly conquered land. The end result of both is that Lanius agrees to "put a rain check" on the war for Vegas and return to Arizona, where the Legion will likely collapse under its own weight due to spending the majority of its resources failing to expand and reinforce its infrastructure and/or losing its god-king.

I swear no one actually reads the fucking skill dialogues

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I see this brought up a lot and always think it's stupid;
Lanius might be a human blender that blends humans, and an unparalleled tactician, but he's still a human. Humans are fallible and imperfect, prone to error. You're not calling Lanius a stinky poo poo butt and asking him to turn tail, you're either convincing him he's doomed to walk the same path as Graham or that the Legion will be too barren to hold on its newly conquered land. The end result of both is that Lanius agrees to "put a rain check" on the war for Vegas and return to Arizona, where the Legion will likely collapse under its own weight due to spending the majority of its resources failing to expand and reinforce its infrastructure and/or losing its god-king.

I swear no one actually reads the fucking skill dialogues

Yeah, no.

This might have worked, if the Legion is a rational organization that understands that people fail now and then and that giving them a second chance might do some good.

Except it isn't. The last time a Legate failed to take Hoover Dam, Caesar covered the man in pitch, set him on fire, and threw him off the Grand Canyon. Caesar even tells a pro-Legion Courier to "come back victorious, or DON'T COME BACK."

It doesn't matter what you tell Lanius, because in the end, whomever's in charge back home, be it Caesar or the other Centurions, will not accept whatever comes out of Lanius' mouth when he tries to explain WHY he didn't fight to the last when taking the Dam. If Caesar is alive, he'll just have Lanius executed for failure. If Caesar is dead, the other Centurions will refuse to follow Lanius because his whole shtick is killing failed officers and when he proves to be a failure himself, they'll probably kill him just to show that no man is above reproach before splitting the Legion in a civil war for Caesar's throne.

Skill check or no, what's important isn't just Lanius, but the whole culture he represents. This whole "take no prisoners, death before dishonor" culture that won't accept no for an answer. You even hear in the radio that Lanius beat some commander to death in front of his men and executed 1/10th of them just for failing. How do you think the Legion would react if he fails? What, do you think they'll send some slave girls to kiss his boo-boos and tell him to do better next time? No, they'll fucking crucify the guy. If he's smart, he won't come back to the Legion ever again. Because if he did, whether or not Caesar is alive, he'll get executed for failure. Even before the Legion collapses, they'll execute Lanius for failing before they start arguing with each other who should succeed Caesar.

 

[Montalbane]

I see Lanius retreating as a good parallel for the battle of Cannae.
Despite it being the Hail Mary of the roman army at the battle they lost, yet won the war.
In this case of course a legion victory at the dam could be either their damnation of crowning achievement.
But in both situation a retrear, eithee strategical or a rout resulted in the romans regrouping, rebuilding and coming up with a brand new, impressive plan.

I could see that working, Lanius goes back, quells dissent, becomes the de facto new Caesar and plans a more cunning idea to fuck up the NCR having left enough seeds to reap a bloody harvest for another time.

Sure, his reputation is more akin to the most dimwitted soviet commissar rather than a Roman General of yore but that's the thing, it's his reputation, not the the factual truth.
We don't know why he wears the mask and he clearly has a lot of loyalty for a conscripted tribal but he may not even be fully human.

God I love new vegas.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I see Lanius retreating as a good parallel for the battle of Cannae.
Despite it being the Hail Mary of the roman army at the battle they lost, yet won the war.
In this case of course a legion victory at the dam could be either their damnation of crowning achievement.
But in both situation a retrear, eithee strategical or a rout resulted in the romans regrouping, rebuilding and coming up with a brand new, impressive plan.

Again, something which would work, if the Legion forgave failure. It doesn't. Not even for guys like Joshua Graham, the first Legate and co-founder of the Legion. All those years of service and leadership, and one loss led to him getting burned alive and tossed from the Grand Canyon. So Lanius retreating would be seen as a similar failure, especially since he lost most of his soldiers fighting A MAILMAN, and he couldn't even muster the courage to die defending his post. Either Caesar's alive, and he'll execute Lanius for failing (Caesar already uses Lanius to kill Legates and Centurions who fail, BTW) or the other Centurions will gang up on Lanius and have him killed for failure, especially since he's already killed members of their lot for failing in battle. Either way, he'd get killed for being a coward.

Again, remember Caesar's words to the player at the start of the Battle for Hoover Dam: "Come back victorious, or don't come back."

I could see that working, Lanius goes back, quells dissent, becomes the de facto new Caesar and plans a more cunning idea to fuck up the NCR having left enough seeds to reap a bloody harvest for another time.

How? With Lanius coming back in defeat, no Legionnaire will follow him. The other Centurions won't respect a failure, especially since Lanius himself AND Caesar have taught them to never tolerate failure even by high-ranking people like Joshua Graham. And they sure as hell won't tolerate it from Lanius, who has killed friends and fellow Centurions amongst them for the crime of failing to win in battle. For Lanius to fuck up in the big battle, that would only lead to one scenario: all the Centurions getting together to terminate him, or Caesar executing his sorry ass.

Sure, his reputation is more akin to the most dimwitted soviet commissar rather than a Roman General of yore but that's the thing, it's his reputation, not the the factual truth.
We don't know why he wears the mask and he clearly has a lot of loyalty for a conscripted tribal but he may not even be fully human.

Doesn't matter. If he fucks up, he'll get the Joshua Graham treatment, which is why him retreating from battle makes no fucking sense.

 

[Montalbane]

Again, something which would work, if the Legion forgave failure. It doesn't. Not even for guys like Joshua Graham, the first Legate and co-founder of the Legion. All those years of service and leadership, and one loss led to him getting burned alive and tossed from the Grand Canyon. So Lanius retreating would be seen as a similar failure, especially since he lost most of his soldiers fighting A MAILMAN, and he couldn't even muster the courage to die defending his post. Either Caesar's alive, and he'll execute Lanius for failing (Caesar already uses Lanius to kill Legates and Centurions who fail, BTW) or the other Centurions will gang up on Lanius and have him killed for failure, especially since he's already killed members of their lot for failing in battle. Either way, he'd get killed for being a coward.

Again, remember Caesar's words to the player at the start of the Battle for Hoover Dam: "Come back victorious, or don't come back."

How? With Lanius coming back in defeat, no Legionnaire will follow him. The other Centurions won't respect a failure, especially since Lanius himself AND Caesar have taught them to never tolerate failure even by high-ranking people like Joshua Graham. And they sure as hell won't tolerate it from Lanius, who has killed friends and fellow Centurions amongst them for the crime of failing to win in battle. For Lanius to fuck up in the big battle, that would only lead to one scenario: all the Centurions getting together to terminate him, or Caesar executing his sorry ass.

Doesn't matter. If he fucks up, he'll get the Joshua Graham treatment, which is why him retreating from battle makes no fucking sense.

You seem to have this granitic idea of the legion as a cultural monolith.
It really isn't honestly.

While their culture doesn't forgive failure they are also not fans if losing a war and getting slaughtered.

A perfect example would be the contraposition between Italian generals Luigi Cadorna and Armando Diaz.
Cadorna being the pig headed generalissimo and Diaz a more Forward thinking strategist.
Of course Cadorna had his merits and his failures in World war 1 was also due to politics (His staff never made extensive plans to attack Austria but had entire folders on how to fuck the french) but that is no excuse for the eleven battles of the isonzo.
Cadorna focused too much on the Isonzo and did not accept failure as an answer and it ended with Venezia almost being taken by the austrians and the army routing.
Diaz came in, galvanized the population and reshaped the conscript force into something that could stop and then turn the austrians around (Thanks to the entente bleeding the germans dry of course but that is war).
Caesar is of course Cadorna and his idea while successfull as the start is going to lead to failure.
Who the Diaz in this situation could be I do not know, could be vulpes could be lanius it's an open question really.

But on thing Caesar was right the legion cannot sustain itself the way it was during the second battle of hoover dam.
Perhaps a failure there might lead to it fracturing or to its rebuilding into a more fierce army.

 

[OmnipotentStupidity]

If I may interject here: can you tards not derail this thread into another lore pissing match with the autist who has no clue what the fuck he's talking up and constantly makes up bullshit headcanons and spouts them as fact? It's happened in the Star Wars thread, it happened in the main Fallout thread, it's happened in several lolcow threads, it's happening again here.

I wanna hear about how much more rope the devs are gonna hoist themselves up upon, and any more stupid shit people find in this dumpster fire of a mod, not have it be drowned out by the downfall of the Legion or whatever the fuck.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You seem to have this granitic idea of the legion as a cultural monolith.
It really isn't honestly.

While their culture doesn't forgive failure they are also not fans if losing a war and getting slaughtered.

A perfect example would be the contraposition between Italian generals Luigi Cadorna and Armando Diaz.
Cadorna being the pig headed generalissimo and Diaz a more Forward thinking strategist.
Of course Cadorna had his merits and his failures in World war 1 was also due to politics (His staff never made extensive plans to attack Austria but had entire folders on how to fuck the french) but that is no excuse for the eleven battles of the isonzo.
Cadorna focused too much on the Isonzo and did not accept failure as an answer and it ended with Venezia almost being taken by the austrians and the army routing.
Diaz came in, galvanized the population and reshaped the conscript force into something that could stop and then turn the austrians around (Thanks to the entente bleeding the germans dry of course but that is war).
Caesar is of course Cadorna and his idea while successfull as the start is going to lead to failure.
Who the Diaz in this situation could be I do not know, could be vulpes could be lanius it's an open question really.

But on thing Caesar was right the legion cannot sustain itself the way it was during the second battle of hoover dam.
Perhaps a failure there might lead to it fracturing or to its rebuilding into a more fierce army.

It kind of is.

The Legion's whole shtick is BEING a cultural monolith.

In short, Lanius retreating doesn't make sense, because we saw from what happened to Joshua Graham how the Legion doesn't even spare high-ranking commanders. I think only Caesar can get away with retreating from battle. Everyone else would get crucified or worse.

Especially since Lanius treats the Legion higher-ups like shit, so if Caesar dies, Lanius losing the big battle is the only excuse they'll ever need to move against the latter and kill him, and given that most of his troops died on the Hoover Dam, they won't have any problems killing Lanius. Either that, or if Caesar's alive, he'll just kill Lanius for failing.

Getting back to the mod........

Y'know, this mod could have worked better if they cut out the bullshit. The main story with the Crusaders vs. NCR frontier vs. Northern Legion works fine. They didn't need Mothership Zeta levels of adding space battles and Enclave remnants if they weren't going to let us play as the Enclave. Just have the main three-way battle, and place a mcguffin in the middle. Like say, if you can't play as the Enclave, have an Enclave base working on some important tech in the middle of Portland that all three factions would want, like some kind of superweapon or technology that would be practical in a post-nuclear wasteland. The Enclave guys get killed by Super Mutants led by a general who used to be a big hitter during the days of the Master back in Fallout 1, and you can then have the NCR renegades, the Crusaders, and the Northern Legion fighting against the mutants AND each other over the spoils.

We didn't need snakes that you have sex with.

We didn't need space battles or Archimedes II.

We also didn't need to rip off EVERY SINGLE FPS CLICHE known to man.

All we needed was a reason for these factions to be here, and have something for them to fight over.

And since we couldn't play as the Enclave, we didn't need them here, either. FO4 cut out the Enclave entirely, and it worked better than just letting them be in the game but not as a playable faction. Either make them a playable faction, or make them part of the scenery or backstory, or just cut them out entirely.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

I've found it quite odd that no one has posted any of zu's offending art , so I went on a search and have found only 1 thing that may relate to said underage mlp art , and even then idk enough about mlp to say if its even underage.

That being said e621 does have 7 or more hidden posts by zu so those might be said underage art.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I've found it quite odd that no one has posted any of zu's offending art , so I went on a search and have found only 1 thing that may relate to said underage mlp art , and even then idk enough about mlp to say if its even underage.

That being said e621 does have 7 or more hidden posts by zu so those might be said underage art.

I'd like to see other criticisms that don't revolve around Zu. As fun as it is to kick around someone who's guilty of making CP, I'd rather get more substantial video game criticisms. Like how the NCR campaign rips off every FPS cliche known to man. Or how the technology goes overboard like with the fucking SHIELD Heli-Carrier.

 

[take it easy]

I am monitoring this thread dot lizard

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

They could have added the Enclave in with the Crusaders. The Crusaders already abandoned the Brotherhood of Steel and its religion to pursue their own faith, one that's linked with Christianity. They could have written in that Domina and her people were struggling to establish themselves as a bona-fide faction until they ran across some Enclave remnants whose ancestors split off from the Enclave after getting pissed off with Richardson. Then you can have the two groups join together and form this traditional Christian faction with power armor, plasma weapons, and Bibles since the Enclave would also be familiar with that stuff, with them being zealots for old-world America. Add in Domina's religious rhetoric and you're good to go. A faction of ex-Enclave, ex-Brotherhood types united under the banner of the Cross, with both groups that formed it having good reasons to shoot at both the NCR AND the Legion.

Also, the NCR Frontier faction didn't need all that drama with their leader planning to overthrow Kimball. Just have it so that he and his forces were sent there by the NCR in their expansion efforts, and he took up the job to get away from Oliver and the Mojave after he was forced to kill his wounded men after the Helios One battle. There you go. A basic setup and explanation as to why this dickhead is camped up north with NCR troops. There's no need for him to be a hypocritical dickhead who left because the NCR treats his men like shit, only for him to execute men for desertion.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Yeah, no.

This might have worked, if the Legion is a rational organization that understands that people fail now and then and that giving them a second chance might do some good.

Except it isn't. The last time a Legate failed to take Hoover Dam, Caesar covered the man in pitch, set him on fire, and threw him off the Grand Canyon. Caesar even tells a pro-Legion Courier to "come back victorious, or DON'T COME BACK."

It doesn't matter what you tell Lanius, because in the end, whomever's in charge back home, be it Caesar or the other Centurions, will not accept whatever comes out of Lanius' mouth when he tries to explain WHY he didn't fight to the last when taking the Dam. If Caesar is alive, he'll just have Lanius executed for failure. If Caesar is dead, the other Centurions will refuse to follow Lanius because his whole shtick is killing failed officers and when he proves to be a failure himself, they'll probably kill him just to show that no man is above reproach before splitting the Legion in a civil war for Caesar's throne.

Skill check or no, what's important isn't just Lanius, but the whole culture he represents. This whole "take no prisoners, death before dishonor" culture that won't accept no for an answer. You even hear in the radio that Lanius beat some commander to death in front of his men and executed 1/10th of them just for failing. How do you think the Legion would react if he fails? What, do you think they'll send some slave girls to kiss his boo-boos and tell him to do better next time? No, they'll fucking crucify the guy. If he's smart, he won't come back to the Legion ever again. Because if he did, whether or not Caesar is alive, he'll get executed for failure. Even before the Legion collapses, they'll execute Lanius for failing before they start arguing with each other who should succeed Caesar.

To be fair, I always figured that if you leave them both alive at the end Lanius would end up killing Caesar and taking over the legion himself. I mean, just who the fuck could stop him? Especially if he managed to raise the same good points the courier did.
"You dragged us into a war that weakened us! You're an unfit leader and a false god!"
*yeet*


Now that I think about it, something makes me wonder if that wasn't his plan. He knew he couldn't just retreat, but if he killed Caesar and named himself Imperator who could stand against him? Especially because this is the 2nd time Caesar led them to failure, that alone could be his justification to seize power.

 

[Les Morfalous]

something always bugged me about FO3 plot, and how retarded it actually is
>Nooo, I don't want my project to fall into the hands of racist authoritarians!They're gonna use it to propagate their cause
>So i'm gonna give my project to a group of racist authoritarians who are gonna use this device propagate their cause

Also another thing concerning the Fallout lore that people need to be aware of:UNCLE BARNAKY DID NOTHING WRONG!!!1111!!!!1111