Game of Thrones Thread

[Judge Holden]

Believe it or not "medieval villain invents gunpowder" is something of a fantasy trope. Famously, in Lord of the Rings, its suggested that Sauruman used explosives at the Battle of Helm's deep.

Even before that its in some Mark Twain book. And yes the idea has been a cliche for a while but at least its some kind of honest to god subversion that could make for a credible surprise ending to the series rather than just "everybody is retarded so this happens"

 

[Absolutego]

*>TFW GRRM has done a better job foreshadowing a Targ going crazy and he's 2-3 books behind the show at this point

I'm going to mine salt nonstop for the next two weeks, if they seriously piss off the yaaas kween crowd this show really will pull a Lost/Dexter and cease being a pop culture sensation overnight because of how much everyone hated the ending.

 

[Mola Ram]

*>TFW GRRM has done a better job foreshadowing a Targ going crazy and he's 2-3 books behind the show at this point

I'm going to mine salt nonstop for the next two weeks, if they seriously piss off the yaaas kween crowd this show really will pull a Lost/Dexter and cease being a pop culture sensation overnight because of how much everyone hated the ending.

Welp, so far I've seen a good chunk of bitching on Twitter about muh POCs getting killed off and how much it sucks that Daenerys is being set up to go crazy when the male characters are celebrated for getting revenge. I was also on the receiving end of some severe annoyance from my brother, who loves the show and thinks it's going just fine and all my criticism was just "nitpicking." So, from SJWs to normies, it's all par for the course.

 

[Tookie]

It seems to me like D&D wrote themselves into a corner at the same point in the narrative that GRRM wrote himself into a corner (post-A Dance With Dragons/ Season 5). A lot the seeds for the current problems cropped up then and I get the vibe that the show's planned ending diverged more from the source material and they skewed back to it sometime during production of Season 7.

I think the Night King and the fucking sand snakes were where things unraveled. The Night King was probably not a good idea since his death could never live up to the hype unless he were the final boss. Having an identifiable villain instead of the white walkers being more of a force of nature was never going to match up with how this ending is structured.

The sand snakes were an obvious mess and their story seemed to sideline anything being done sooner with Euron. They should have used Ellaria as an Arianne stand-in and done a more straightforward adaptation of Dorne. Dr. Bashir should have stuck around and you could have had the Dornish and some random Stormlords fighting the dead so the rest of the continent knows exactly what happened. Euron could have been introduced sooner and closer to his book counterpart to be a credible antagonist instead of wasting time on "bad pussy."

 

[Truthspeaker]

I know Emilia Clarke has never been a good actress, but I'm still astonished at how little chemistry her and Kit have. She had way more chemistry with Jason Momoa. And Iain Glenn.

They should've rewrote them out of having a romance once they saw these two interact together. Usually, you only see romances this unconvincing when both leads are closeted (the Twilight movies, the Star Wars prequels).

I'm ready to call it the worst creative decision in the history of the show. Including the decision for Tyrion and Cersei to swap I.Q.'s in season 6.

Is Lena Headey putting out to both Benioff and Weiss for this kinda treatment?

I think the Night King and the fucking sand snakes were where things unraveled. The Night King was probably not a good idea since his death could never live up to the hype unless he were the final boss. Having an identifiable villain instead of the white walkers being more of a force of nature was never going to match up with how this ending is structured.

I'm pretty sure either Lady Stoneheart, Euron, or both, were supposed to serve this function.

But Benioff and Weiss, in their infinite wisdom, decided to adapt one out, and adapt the other out in all but name. Christ, we lost out on so much not having Martin finish the series first.

The sand snakes were an obvious mess and their story seemed to sideline anything being done sooner with Euron. They should have used Ellaria as an Arianne stand-in and done a more straightforward adaptation of Dorne. Dr. Bashir should have stuck around and you could have had the Dornish and some random Stormlords fighting the dead so the rest of the continent knows exactly what happened. Euron could have been introduced sooner and closer to his book counterpart to be a credible antagonist instead of wasting time on "bad pussy."

All true. They would've even been better off adapting both out entirely than what they ended up with.

 

[Mola Ram]

. Dr. Bashir should have stuck around

Supposedly Alexander Siddiq was pissed because he was contracted for another four episodes and they changed things at the last minute. Which is now officially a running theme to this show: the writers set up some fraught situation, then just Gordian Knot their way out of it and leave the audience with a case of narrative blueballs. Dorne, Littlefinger, the Night King, even the Sparrows since Cersei faced no consequences for blowing up the Sept -- it was just a way for them to tie off the story and be done with it.

I know Emilia Clarke has never been a good actress, but I'm still astonished at how little chemistry her and Kit have. She had way more chemistry with Jason Momoa.

I am totally down with the idea Emilia Clarke is at her best when getting railed like a dog.

 

[Phallacies]

I get that Missandei is a character that’s been around for a while, but I don’t understand why you’d make her death the final closing set piece rather than the dragon’s death which has way more serious implications on the war than Danni’s cute friend. Small peanuts, but that moment felt like a season 7 episode instead of the third to last episode. Putting Danni down to one dragon is BIG, and way more of a real cliff hanger than the death of another “main” character.

I think there were some great moments in the last episode like when Danni’s advisors must decide how they want to handle the news of Jon’s origin. Scenes like this feel like the culmination of dramatic irony that the audience has been sitting on for like 3 years, and that’s exactly what a final season should be like.

It seems to me like D&D wrote themselves into a corner at the same point in the narrative that GRRM wrote himself into a corner (post-A Dance With Dragons/ Season 5). A lot the seeds for the current problems cropped up then and I get the vibe that the show's planned ending diverged more from the source material and they skewed back to it sometime during production of Season 7.

I think the Night King and the fucking sand snakes were where things unraveled. The Night King was probably not a good idea since his death could never live up to the hype unless he were the final boss. Having an identifiable villain instead of the white walkers being more of a force of nature was never going to match up with how this ending is structured.

The sand snakes were an obvious mess and their story seemed to sideline anything being done sooner with Euron. They should have used Ellaria as an Arianne stand-in and done a more straightforward adaptation of Dorne. Dr. Bashir should have stuck around and you could have had the Dornish and some random Stormlords fighting the dead so the rest of the continent knows exactly what happened. Euron could have been introduced sooner and closer to his book counterpart to be a credible antagonist instead of wasting time on "bad pussy."

Ultimately, I feel like this show is struggling simply because the logistics and in-world geography are just forcing them into an uninteresting narrative. They are trying so hard to subvert expectations that they’re just subverting interesting narratives they themselves have established. I must admit, the show has me really guessing who’s going to win, but only because they’ve dwindled down their interesting options for how to wrap things up. My only hope is that we’re not getting 50% of a finale, just so that they can sell us prequels.

I’m still holding out that magic plays a big role in the final fight, like… it just has to. Otherwise so much of the show was actually just a waste of fucking screentime.

 

[Tookie]

I'm pretty sure either Lady Stoneheart, Euron, or both, were supposed to serve this function.

Book!Euron would have worked wonderfully. He could have murked a dragon early on in Essos and tried roping Danerys into being his queen, leaving to rope in Cersei later on after Danerys fends him off. I kind of wonder if this is how the books will play out and Cersei's brilliant strategic moves and sudden competence are because they're following the book outline where it will be Euron calling the shots. A lot of this makes sense if you imagine the show version of Euron was swapped with his book counterpart sometime in Season 7.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

The thing is this: IF the books ever get finished (spoiler alert: they won't, lol), I can totally see Euron killing one of the dragons. The BOOK Euron, that is ... Not the Jack Sparrow/Keith Richards "Fingah Up Da Bum!" JOKE that the TV Euron is. I bet George tipped D(umb)&D(umber) that Euron would take one of them down. I can see this completely working in the books, since Euron is an evil, ruthless, and highly intelligent character in them.




This show has become Grey's Anatomy: "What love triangle is happening in this episode?" "Who's hooking up with who tonight?"

Literally, there are two fucking episodes left in the series. The big battle only took one episode. Three of the episodes so far have done absolutely nothing except showing characters talking nonsense with each other and people screwing.

And a lot of these conversations are literally people talking about a previous conversation they've already had an episode or two ago, or they're about a character pushing another character to speak or not speak to someone.

Guys, we've hit "Walking Dead Season 2" levels of atrocious writing, and things just not happening.

Euron won't kill a dragon, he'll take one for himself. Killing it would be wasteful.

 

[Cosmos]

HBO isn't the problem. The showrunners didn't want to do it. D&D are possibly the worst showrunners from any show I've ever seen. HBO wanted them to do a solid 10 seasons, not split shit like this. And they were like, 'Nah.' So there really wasn't time to resolve anything or have any potent build-up. You also have to realize D&D really basically stopped caring when book material ran out. They honestly want to be done with Game of Thrones as fast as possible. It wasn't possible with 7 seasons, so they had to split it off, not even a real season. 6 episodes in the US isn't a season of a show, its a mini-series.

Yeah, that’s what pisses me off the most. D&D talk about budgetary and time constraints but those are all self-imposed. Game of Thrones is HBO’s most successful series ever, they were more than willing to throw more time and money at it and keep it going. But D&D are just tired of the show and want to move onto something else.

It’s just so disrespectful to Game of Thrones and all its fans. If the show runners really hate working on it so much they should have just passed it onto someone else instead of giving us this.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Book!Euron would have worked wonderfully. He could have murked a dragon early on in Essos and tried roping Danerys into being his queen, leaving to rope in Cersei later on after Danerys fends him off. I kind of wonder if this is how the books will play out and Cersei's brilliant strategic moves and sudden competence are because they're following the book outline where it will be Euron calling the shots. A lot of this makes sense if you imagine the show version of Euron was swapped with his book counterpart sometime in Season 7.

If some of what Aeron was dreaming is prophetic then Euron may actually succeed in roping Daenerys into being his queen when she goes batshit.

Winds of Winter excerpt:

Spoiler

"Release me,” Aeron Damphair commanded in his sternest voice, “or risk the wrath of god!”

Euron produced a carved stone bottle and a wine cup. “You have a thirsty look about you,” he said as he poured. “You need a drink; a taste of evening’s shade.”

“No.” Aeron turned his face away. “No, I said.”

“And I said yes.” Euron pulled his head back by the hair and forced the vile liquor into his mouth again. Though Aeron clamped his mouth shut, twisting his head from side to side he fought as best he could, but in the end he had to choke or swallow.

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed...

GEE I WONDER WHO THAT WOMAN COULD BE

A shame there'll never be another book. And to be fair, there's certainly alternate interpretations. The imagery is reminiscent of the story of the book version of Night's King, who apparently married a white walker.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

This series has really gone downhill. Series 6 was pretty damn good all things considered because there was enough detail etc. but the filler was being debrided. Good, said I. Filler is GRRM's biggest failing. Nobody gives a shit what people are wearing or what they're eating or suchlike.

But the last series and this one has felt almost as if they're just phoning it in. The big fucking Deux Ex Machina of Arya coming out of nowhere and stabbing the Night King in the gut, who just so happens to be a load bearing boss. I might watch the next two episodes but I've felt, not to put too fine a point on it, underwhelmed.

I think the root problem is that GRRM has never known himself what the ending should be or how to get there. Considering the lather he got himself into over the Meereeneese Knot when writing A Dance with Dragons, and considering that the series expanded from a trilogy to a heptalogy halfway through writing A Clash of Kings, I can't say I'm surprised.

The X Files had this problem. They kept adding layer upon layer of fluff and twists and developments and false endings and it just collapsed under its own weight. Ditto Lost.

Coincidentally, Breaking Bad didn't. Why? Because they knew what they wanted to accomplish and worked out how to get there in advance. They also knew to quit while they were ahead.

In literary terms, The Wheel of Time had this exact same problem with trying to write a 14-volume epic and not knowing how it ended properly. It got to the point at which one of the books, Crossroads of Twilight I think it was, had as its big bad, fucking GRAIN WEEVILS. And then the author died.

If I were GRRM, in The Winds of Winter, I'd have the Others come over the Wall, murder everyone, and subsequent heat death of the universe. The end. And the last 100 pages would be filled with trollface. Torch the franchise and run.

 

[Spatula]

This series has really gone downhill. Series 6 was pretty damn good all things considered because there was enough detail etc. but the filler was being debrided. Good, said I. Filler is GRRM's biggest failing. Nobody gives a shit what people are wearing or what they're eating or suchlike.

But the last series and this one has felt almost as if they're just phoning it in. The big fucking Deux Ex Machina of Arya coming out of nowhere and stabbing the Night King in the gut, who just so happens to be a load bearing boss. I might watch the next two episodes but I've felt, not to put too fine a point on it, underwhelmed.

I think the root problem is that GRRM has never known himself what the ending should be or how to get there. Considering the lather he got himself into over the Meereeneese Knot when writing A Dance with Dragons, and considering that the series expanded from a trilogy to a heptalogy halfway through writing A Clash of Kings, I can't say I'm surprised.

The X Files had this problem. They kept adding layer upon layer of fluff and twists and developments and false endings and it just collapsed under its own weight. Ditto Lost.

Coincidentally, Breaking Bad didn't. Why? Because they knew what they wanted to accomplish and worked out how to get there in advance. They also knew to quit while they were ahead.

In literary terms, The Wheel of Time had this exact same problem with trying to write a 14-volume epic and not knowing how it ended properly. It got to the point at which one of the books, Crossroads of Twilight I think it was, had as its big bad, fucking GRAIN WEEVILS. And then the author died.

If I were GRRM, in The Winds of Winter, I'd have the Others come over the Wall, murder everyone, and subsequent heat death of the universe. The end. And the last 100 pages would be filled with trollface. Torch the franchise and run.

Considering the alternative ending

Spoiler: The show end

Bran sitting on the fucking Iron Throne

I would prefer the one you propose.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Considering the alternative ending

Spoiler: The show end

Bran sitting on the fucking Iron Throne

I would prefer the one you propose.

What.

Fucking what.

How in the name of the Virgin Mary's malodorous fishy cunt is that any form of an ending whatever.

Please tell me there's not a leak or a corroborated source that says that's what happens.

 

[Secret Asshole]

I'm afraid there are. Look back at my posts for how this happens. The same people did plot point for plot point spoilers for episode 4 and everything they said was correct.

Also, when the finale airs the internet is going to burn. Seriously, the entire fandom will collapse. There will be like 5 people who think it was a masterpiece.

What is also telling is the showrunners will not be anywhere near the internet when the finale drops. Which tells you they know they fucked up and people will hate it. Because they were phoning everything in.

 

[Muttnik]

Either way, it's an ending guaranteed to piss EVERYONE off. In this, we will be united--sjws, book fans, normies, dedicated theorists, confused casuals--EVERYONE.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Nah those of us who gave up years ago won't be pissed, we'll just be laughing.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

I'm afraid there are. Look back at my posts for how this happens. The same people did plot point for plot point spoilers for episode 4 and everything they said was correct.

Also, when the finale airs the internet is going to burn. Seriously, the entire fandom will collapse. There will be like 5 people who think it was a masterpiece.

What is also telling is the showrunners will not be anywhere near the internet when the finale drops. Which tells you they know they fucked up and people will hate it. Because they were phoning everything in.

Oh shit. It's real. It's real. I just found the spoiler thread on twatter.

This is like the Mass Effect 3 ending of television. I guarantee that there'll be screeching and autism and salt, and then HBO's PR department will come out and mumble something about entitled viewers.

This also dovetails with how Rose "You know Nothing, Jon Snurrr" Leslie (who played Ygritte, and who Kit Harington's been shacked up with for the past however many years) wouldn't talk to Kit when he told her how it ended, or so Wikipedia says. She probably felt polluted to be associated with it. I would.

 

[Rolo_Tomassi]

If we're at the point now where all of production missed a Starbucks cup - I think it's time to call it quits.

Unless Bronn is getting a franchise instead of Riverrun.

Spoiler: HURRR DURRRR

My biggest problem is the motivations of characters from a tactical perspective that make absolutely no sense. Both Euron and Cersei basically had Dany and what was left of the unsullied in the palm of their hands, but neither went in for the kill.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Oh shit. It's real. It's real. I just found the spoiler thread on twatter.

This is like the Mass Effect 3 ending of television. I guarantee that there'll be screeching and autism and salt, and then HBO's PR department will come out and mumble something about entitled viewers.

This also dovetails with how Rose "You know Nothing, Jon Snurrr" Leslie (who played Ygritte, and who Kit Harington's been shacked up with for the past however many years) wouldn't talk to Kit when he told her how it ended, or so Wikipedia says. She probably felt polluted to be associated with it. I would.

And just like Mass Effect 3 people will pretend it was just the ending that was bad and not the entire last half of the story.

Speaking of Kit and Rose Leslie, it's funny Emilia gets so much shit about her acting compared to Kit. Kit is just as bad. The only reason his scenes with Rose worked is because they weren't acting. They actually fell in love on set.