Game of Thrones Thread

2.Jon is much easier to control than dany, that's why varys would rather have him up there.
He's in for a disapointment there, Jons fundemently impossible to defer from any decision no matter how terrible. Fuck up a peace conferance? Tell your wifu and bitchy sister a realm shattering secret? Ignore grumblings in the ranks about wildlings?
Their isnt a bad idea Jon won't stick with if he feels he's in the right. If Jon had been left his own Devices the battle of ice and fire would have seen Daenery's trying to take winterfell From Ramseys zombiefied ass.

Dany is a better candidate because at least you can talk her down from her pyromanic tendancies. Once jons decided something is morally correct nothing on earth will derail that bad idea.
 
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I kinda began to check out from the show when Dany's knight guy was able to figure out she was kidnapped by somehow finding the ring she dropped in a massive field of grass.

Like... How? That's incredibly convenient writing there.
 
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I kinda began to check out from the show when Dany's knight guy was able to figure out she was kidnapped by somehow finding the ring she dropped in a massive field of grass.

Like... How? That's incredibly convenient writing there.


I called it a day when Euron pulled a super battle fleet out of his ass when he lives on a island famous for its lack of resoarces in under a year. Although we were circling the drain around the time Ramsey killed his dad and no-one seemed to give a shit.
 
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I kinda began to check out from the show when Dany's knight guy was able to figure out she was kidnapped by somehow finding the ring she dropped in a massive field of grass.

Like... How? That's incredibly convenient writing there.

They liked that scene in The Two Towers, so they just plain ol' ripped it off.
 
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What's up with Cersei not showing she's preggers? Sexy time with Jaime was the early part of S7.

:optimistic: I think a bunch of the general populace are still going to love it.
I think there is a scene just before an assassination attempt on Dany of Jorah reading a letter from Kings landing.
Jorah was pardoned by Robert for his service and could come back to Westeros. The little kid tells him so we know what the letter says.
 
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I've been thinking. Dany could have flown up to the Red Keep and roasted Cersei last season, ending the war in 20 minutes. That's what Olenna Tyrell told her, to be a dragon. Instead she listened to Tyrion and Jon and tried to be better and help the people. So she lost 2 children, her best friend, her most loyal companion, the Dothraki, and tons of the Unsullied. And then people like Sansa don't even give a shit.

If she really does go mad after this, I can hardly blame her.
 
I've been thinking. Dany could have flown up to the Red Keep and roasted Cersei last season, ending the war in 20 minutes. That's what Olenna Tyrell told her, to be a dragon. Instead she listened to Tyrion and Jon and tried to be better and help the people. So she lost 2 children, her best friend, her most loyal companion, the Dothraki, and tons of the Unsullied. And then people like Sansa don't even give a shit.

If she really does go mad after this, I can hardly blame her.

If she went and burned down the red keep the people of westeros would never accept her.

On the other hand cersei blew up the pope and she seems fine so actions clearly don't have consequences in this fucking show.
 
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I've been thinking. Dany could have flown up to the Red Keep and roasted Cersei last season, ending the war in 20 minutes. That's what Olenna Tyrell told her, to be a dragon. Instead she listened to Tyrion and Jon and tried to be better and help the people. So she lost 2 children, her best friend, her most loyal companion, the Dothraki, and tons of the Unsullied. And then people like Sansa don't even give a shit.

If she really does go mad after this, I can hardly blame her.

You made one of the posts I clipped off of tumblr :story:

If she went and burned down the red keep the people of westeros would never accept her.

On the other hand cersei blew up the pope and she seems fine so actions clearly don't have consequences in this fucking show.

Something that always bugged me about the entire Dany plot: Dany is a foreigner with a foreign army, meaning the people of Westeros are going to intrinsically be against her. The Targaryens ruled for a very long time, true, but Robert's Rebellion and the subsequent power struggles have made both the lords and commoners very weary of even more conflict. So, what comes over the horizon? A progeny of the Mad King, with an army of nomadic raiders and neutered slaves. Oh yeah, three aggressive animals that eat livestock and light shit on fire too. Fantastic!
 
If she went and burned down the red keep the people of westeros would never accept her.

On the other hand cersei blew up the pope and she seems fine so actions clearly don't have consequences in this fucking show.
Not only did she blow up the pope and the Vatican, she also murdered the lord Paramount of the Reach and his two heirs, her uncle and cousin, and indirectly the king. Why the vassal houses bothered coming to the Red Keep in season 7 (or why Olenna didn't call her bannerman for that matter) is beyond me.

I feel like everyone in Westeros stopped giving a shit about great taboos and the consequences of committing such actions after season 5 considering that Ellaria held power in Dorne for a while despite murdering Doran in cold blood, Ramsay killing his entire family, Euron killing his brother, the aforementioned Cersei.
 
If she went and burned down the red keep the people of westeros would never accept her.

On the other hand cersei blew up the pope and she seems fine so actions clearly don't have consequences in this fucking show.

Yeah, can we talk about that? You're right, Cersei literally blew up the equivalent of the Pope and a major cathedral (I'd say the Vatican but iirc the center of the Faith of the Seven is in Oldtown; let's call the Sept of Baelor Notre Dame for comparison). And not just the people in the sept, we saw shots of random civilians getting killed by the blast. That should have major ramifications. Cersei literally committed a terrorist attack against the religion of Westeros (and most Westerosis are heavily religious, especially the smallfolk). And yet we're told that the people are totally fine with Cersei and aren't planning an uprising yet or anything. Cool.
 
You made one of the posts I clipped off of tumblr :story:



Something that always bugged me about the entire Dany plot: Dany is a foreigner with a foreign army, meaning the people of Westeros are going to intrinsically be against her. The Targaryens ruled for a very long time, true, but Robert's Rebellion and the subsequent power struggles have made both the lords and commoners very weary of even more conflict. So, what comes over the horizon? A progeny of the Mad King, with an army of nomadic raiders and neutered slaves. Oh yeah, three aggressive animals that eat livestock and light shit on fire too. Fantastic!

That's why the ending I posted makes the best sense. After everything, you see Dany, triumphant that she's won the Game of Thrones. The remaining Starks are rebuilding the North. Sansa is Queen in the North, but is too occupied with her Realm to even really care all that much. In fact, everybody who could oppose her is fucking dead and the last true heir went beyond the wall forever. Bran goes with Jon as well, to communicate the ways of men to the Others, so this never happens again. Dany is the only one with a claim anymore. But then you just see her journeying past the country side and that big fucking smile slowly starts to disappear. The further South she goes, the worse it gets. The South gets hit hardest, because the Others went for large population centers first, because they didn't really believe the Others existed and they wouldn't know the first thing about defeating them, while the Northmen would. That's why the North, while it suffered, isn't completely destroyed. They fortified, waiting for an attack that basically never came. In the South, villages are completely empty, with dead unburied. You see implied cannibalism in villages that did survive. Cities are completely empty, full of rotting corpses as everyone fled further and further south as grain ran out.

Most things have long since been looted. The walk to King's Landing is harsh, most of the city destroyed. There's barely anyone there. Tyrion himself knew what went on further south, and he wants no part of it. Pretty sure at this point he's the last surviving Lannister and would rather not go back, so he stays in Winterfell. Most everything south is devastated, and she sees how pointless it all was. Her entire Kingdom is the North and the Wildlings who bolster the numbers of the North, the only two factions to believe The Prince Who Was Promised. Its implied that there's really not enough of her formidable army left to oppose the North even if they defied her. Its also heavily implied that if Dany tries to force the North to bend, Arya will come and stab her in her sleep, thanks to Mel's prophecy. Everything else has been decimated, a near-apocalyptic wasteland. The only ones left are the peasants, who are too worried about survival to rule. Basically all the noble houses are dead, maybe except for House Stark and House Beratheon (I'll give it to Gendry). The wheel is broken forever and now she rules over a land of ash and snow. The throne is just this cold iron fucking thing that's now completely meaningless. That's how you subvert expectations. The Game of Thrones, in the end, never fucking mattered.

Ok, now I'm just writing fanfiction (and a better show).

I mostly agree. I'm a little bit different in that I started watching when Season 6 was happening, and after it was done I was still invested in the show and excited for what was coming next. In hindsight though, it is pretty obvious that Season 5 (aka when the writers started making up their own plot ideas to a significant degree) is when it started to go downhill. I like your 3 part breakdown because the concept it really close to how I've come to view it. I would separate them this way:
Phase 1 - consists of Seasons 1-4. Is mostly a well-made and accurate adaptation of the books, with a few hiccups.
Phase 2- Seasons 5&6. Diverges from the source material more and has some really bad plotlines, but is still mostly enjoyable to watch with some really epic moments. Definitely very rushed, but if you're still freshly glowing from the set up as I was it will still get you really excited for the pay off.
Phase 3- Seasons 7&8. Complete travesty.
Not sure how you break up the seasons based on what you wrote, but that's how I see it.

The only issue I see with your plan for the ending is that the wildlings existed north of the wall for at least a thousand or so years before the White Walkers started attacking again.

Well, imagine the Others are really, really deep up North. Or even underground or live in the mountains. The Wildlings would live close to the wall at first, eventually expanding out. For immortals, it might be that long before they even noticed the Wildlings. Maybe, like Bran, they perceive time differently. To men, it was a thousand years. To the Others, it was maybe several months. They're completely alien creatures. Eventually, after a thousand years of knowing how to survive in the North, the Wildlings pushed way too far up. And that's when the Others notice them.

Well, Phase 1 would be seasons 1 to 4. You basically don't really need to change all that much.

Phase 2 is 5-7, which would be completely different. Sansa wouldn't have married Bolton, Little Finger would have used a dupe. She learns from Little Finger, but eventually Little Finger sees the Starks as more of an obstacle and secretly sides with the Bolton's. You basically change a lot here. It would really be different. I don't think I'd include Dorn. It'd be more set-up for the coming menace, political machinations and things like that. Remove Ramsay's plot armor and introduce Euron as the big Eldritch Bad. Season 6 ends with Jon's death. They put him on the pyre and light it. You get a side shot of Jon in the flames, you think he's burning, but only the black cloak does. Just as the last of his clothes burn off, you see a close-in side shot of his hand, gripping the flaming wood and pushing himself up. Cut to black. Season 7 is Jon becoming 'The Prince who is Promised'. The Battle of the Bastards is done early in the season. The rest of the season is him fruitlessly trying to convince others that the literal end of the world is coming. But I'd really make it sparse, like he's coming off as a nutbar. Then the reality hits. I'd end season 7 with Hardhome, Dany's arrival and shit like that.

Phase 3 is 8-10. Season 8 would be the North gearing up for conflict. It'd actually sort of be like the opening to this season 8. You get this foreboding sense of dread. You see them do not ret.arded medieval shit like preparing moats of pitch and shit like that. The first episode is this overwhelming sense of dread. Everyone in the North and the remaining Wildlings are armed to the fucking teeth with dragon glass. Winter has come, and a blizzard has moved in, preventing any crows or communication flying to and from anywhere. You might have two episodes of this, to signify that at least a couple of months have gone by, with everyone getting frustrated that. They start to doubt Jon, maybe even consider killing his stupid ass again. Then you have a messenger come, maybe one of the characters from the South come up and tell them that the army of the dead just fucked them in the ass. The rest of Season 8 would be a jump back to the past and show the South getting fucked, jumping back to the messenger at the end. The Pope isn't blown up, Cersei never gets her revenge. They all just get fucking murked by Ice Liches, legendary creatures and undead legions. This is basically where you get the sense of hopelessness. Season 9 would be the Northmen fighting down south, because if they stay turtled, they'll all just freeze to death, or so many people will be dead that they'll be overrun anyway. They try to destroy the army of the dead. If you want some fan service, have Cleganebowl here. The end of the season would be the realization of the 'others' and that they'd have to go back North and over the wall as a suicide mission while everybody else holds the front. Season 10 would cut between the frantic North holding back the army, while Jon and his party go deeper into the North to find the others before humanity dies. You get this real tension that they could actually fail and humanity be extinguished. The battles are pitched and not fucking stupid. Maybe you have Euron himself be the 'final boss', some Eldritch horror who stole some of The Other's power. A clash between him and Jon happens and Jon wins. Characters die. But then everything I said happens. Also all the dragons die. Ghost lives though. And fucking Jon takes him with him when he marries Ice Ygritte.

That's how I'd do the show anyway without any material to work with. Yes, its all fan-fiction and blah blah. But I mean, I spent 8 years watching this shit and the past several laughing at it. I think I'm entitled to a little bit of indulgence.
 
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That's how I'd do the show anyway without any material to work with. Yes, its all fan-fiction and blah blah. But I mean, I spent 8 years watching this shit and the past several laughing at it. I think I'm entitled to a little bit of indulgence.

Since it's fanfiction I'd have Dany return to Dragonstone and look demoralized as she looks across the bay to post-apocalyptic KL and walks away. She doesn't notice in the distance is a small convoy of ships, with Dario in the lead, and the Mereenese coming to aid Daenerys, too late but what the hell they can rebuild the South, being former slaves with skills and whatever. Hope springs eternal, etc.

Maybe a parting shot deep inside a cave on Dragonstone at a hidden dragon egg as a crack develops and roll credits. There, that's the spinoff.
 
You're more generous than me. I would have included a shot of the sea fucking freezing and hordes walking over to the other continent, and like the Dothraki end of the world prophecy, the grass begins to turn white as they walk up on the shore. That's all you get from that side of the world, ever. So you don't know what happens across the pond, so to speak. Maybe it ends before they're all murdered horribly. Or maybe they're all murdered horribly.

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Or maybe Euron goes across the sea because he knows where another Dragon Egg is, because of his stolen powers. His army is basically half-human, half-eldritch thing at this point, and then when they step on the shore, the grass turns white and Winter comes across the ocean.
 
That works too as Essos is an unknown, could probably do a season interspersed with scenes there, lots of warlocks and R'hollor priest/esses to fight the Other. Slaver's Bay is further away and they might have time to prepare. And there's Yi Ti.

There's much to work with and in the hands of good, imaginative writers it could be awesome and not Xena Warrior Princess tier.
 
If she went and burned down the red keep the people of westeros would never accept her.
Why not? Almost no one in Westeros lives in the Red Keep. That's for the King and his court. Aegon burned way more people. Including a king and his court at Harrenhal. It's just deliberately writing the characters stupid so the drama can continue.

Yeah, can we talk about that? You're right, Cersei literally blew up the equivalent of the Pope and a major cathedral (I'd say the Vatican but iirc the center of the Faith of the Seven is in Oldtown; let's call the Sept of Baelor Notre Dame for comparison). And not just the people in the sept, we saw shots of random civilians getting killed by the blast. That should have major ramifications. Cersei literally committed a terrorist attack against the religion of Westeros (and most Westerosis are heavily religious, especially the smallfolk). And yet we're told that the people are totally fine with Cersei and aren't planning an uprising yet or anything. Cool.
Nah it is the Vatican. The sept in Oldtown was the center of the Faith before Aegon arrived but they moved it to King's Landing after it was built.
 
Last week on Tumblr, as it was becoming clearer and clearer that what some part of the fandom (those hoping for Jon and Sansa to end up together, but the ship is not the point here) speculated before the beginning of the season was actually happening, one of the most rabid Danystans pulled a 'think of the children':


Relevant quotes:

And then to have her story finally crumble completely, have this female character who has suffered so much and tired so much, just descend into madness so that a male hero can kill her and save people from her…a male hero who, for the most part, has no idea what she suffered - he was formally educated and formally trained, always had plenty of food to eat and a constant, warm place to sleep, family who loved and supported him -

Honestly, how can any woman look at this and NOT take issue with it?
Fucking ships don’t matter. Hello! None of the leaks say Jonsa either! It’s not about the goddamn ships.
But seriously, how can anyone, anyone with a vagina especially, root for this ending? Root for this kind of writing?
If the books and show made Dany suffer, only to build her up and build up her power, just to tear her back down again and make her “mad” so that the Male Hero has an excuse to kill her and continue to be “The Hero”…what kind of message does that send to women?
Women shouldn’t have power? Women who wish to take power for themselves will always inevitably go mad? Women aren’t responsible with power?

And for those saying, “Well, Cersei had everything taken from her, why aren’t you complaining about what they did to Cersei and calling that sexist?”
It’s not the same thing at all!
Was Cersei raped and abused by Robert? Yes. Did she lose family and friends? Yes.
However, Cersei has always been unapologetic about her sins
Cersei is the opposite of Dany. Yes, the both want power. But Dany has altruistic aspirations. She’s young, she’s inexperienced, she’s not perfect. But she is trying. Cersei doesn’t.

I just love when two different brands of spergery collide and fuse together into an abominable horror. Gimme that salt XD

__

On another note, re: Dany going mad, one of the most glaring problems of the showrunners has always been the constant gaslighting of the audience: the episodes themselves have always portrayed some of her actions as reproachable or worse, even in earlier seasons (Mirri burned alive, Doreah and Xaro being locked in a vault and left to die, Dany all hot and bothered watching the masters torched alive and so on); the commentaries even underlined it, with stuff like "with each compassionate act of Daenerys her cruelty also grows stronger" in Season 3 after the sack of Astapor, Emilia Clarke saying that her journey back to Vaes Dothrak shed away the last of Dany's humanity, D&D saying flat out that burning the Tarlys is a war crime and so on.

Problem is, Dany became the 'yaaaas kween' Khaleesi among the general audience, and at HBO they road that coattail hard. In the behind the scenes she was praised to heaven in the most acritical way possible, and that is what the casuals perceived to be the 'moral of the story' (look, the showrunners are saying it, it must be true then!). They wanted the cake and eat it too, and now they are getting stuck with people who never took a critical thought about Dany's arc and trajectory reeeeeing about sudden developments and character assassination and what not.

Bitches, you want some real character assassination? Just look how they massacred my boy Stannis.
 
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