Game of Thrones Thread

[Mola Ram]

Pretty much fanfiction tier but it can't be worse than anything else they make at this point so fuck it I guess.

In a cultural landscape where one of the juggernauts of science fantasy actually had the tonedeaf balls to utter the line, "Somehow, Palpatine returned!" this is completely respectable.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

You can read the whole entry here in Martin's" not a blog", only quoting the most important and relevant:

What I have noticed more and more of late, however, is my gardening is taking me further and further away from the television series. Yes, some of the things you saw on HBO in GAME OF THRONES you will also see in THE WINDS OF WINTER (though maybe not in quite the same ways)… but much of the rest will be quite different.

TL;dr: a lot of the things he's written so far about Winds of Winter have moved away too much from what he originally expected, which coincides with what he told HBO about how the books would end. Some will remain, some will be very different. The characters they never cast will play important parts of the general plot, so that's an indicative of how things will not be the same.


TL:dr of the TL;dr: get rekt showfags.

 

[Oats12345]

You can read the whole entry here in Martin's" not a blog", only quoting the most important and relevant:



TL;dr: a lot of the things he's written so far about Winds of Winter have moved away too much from what he originally expected, which coincides with what he told HBO about how the books would end. Some will remain, some will be very different. The characters they never cast will play important parts of the general plot, so that's an indicative of how things will not be the same.


TL:dr of the TL;dr: get rekt showfags.

In reality "I'm a fat fuck who might write the final book after I'm done stuffing my face with cake and wining about politics"

At this point. The book will probably never come. He's been saying that for a long time.

 

[Ishtar]

You can read the whole entry here in Martin's" not a blog", only quoting the most important and relevant:



TL;dr: a lot of the things he's written so far about Winds of Winter have moved away too much from what he originally expected, which coincides with what he told HBO about how the books would end. Some will remain, some will be very different. The characters they never cast will play important parts of the general plot, so that's an indicative of how things will not be the same.


TL:dr of the TL;dr: get rekt showfags.

Martin basically has said the same thing, on both sixty minutes and other interviews.

"Some will be the same, some will not."

Is a vague deflection of the question.

What will be the same? Bran as king? Jon in exile? Daenerys' death? The manner of her death? Minor characters?

It doesn't actually say anything substantial about how different or similar the endings will be.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

TL;dr: a lot of the things he's written so far about Winds of Winter have moved away too much from what he originally expected, which coincides with what he told HBO about how the books would end. Some will remain, some will be very different. The characters they never cast will play important parts of the general plot, so that's an indicative of how things will not be the same.

The only way this book gets published is if it's hand-delivered to the printer by Godot.

Also, "my gardening," Jesus fucking Christ. Unweeded, unpruned kudzu covering every available surface isn't a garden, George.

At this point, I'd guess that he's at the proverbial "doesn't want to write, wants to have written" juncture. He knows what he wants WoW to be, but he doesn't know how to make it, so he keeps second-guessing himself and backtracking while vagueposting about how awesome the finished product will be.

TL:dr of the TL;dr: get rekt showfags.

More than Season 8?

 

[Quintex96]

Bran gets visions of a real long night and sends an order to release Jon of his vows and come to King's Landing to prepare for THE REAL LONG NIGHT. Pretty much fanfiction tier but it can't be worse than anything else they make at this point so fuck it I guess. If they wanted, they could basically make it Game of Thrones : Apocalypse and tap into a little of that Walking Dead action.

Zombies showing up, ice spiders, the whole of Westeros got completely fucked in the war so there's little food and resources to prepare, turning people against themselves. It's all there, it's not very interesting, but it's there.

I imagine they would at least try to do something original or interesting like Westeros being stuck in a permanent state of summer years after the defeat of the White Walkers. something that was celebrated at first but is now causing problems years down the line. Stuff such as crops dying out, humidity giving rise to disease, Dorne basically being on fire .etc The Maesters are clueless as to why it's happening and Bran being a ineffective king has all but lost control of the 6 kingdoms to quarrels in his small council seeks assistance from his family. He initially goes to Sansa who tuns him away, forcing him to seek out Jon beyond the wall in hopes of finding a solution to the problem.

 

[Ishtar]

I have to ask, who exactly is going to return for this show? A Jon Snow/Tormund show could definitely work-just one real location-the wall sets, and also wherever they filmed the beyond the wall stuff.

Is Sophie Turner going to reprise Queen Sansa? Is Bran going to show up? Tyrion? Like, what is the plot?

If its just Jon/Tormund do stuff in the woods with a cast of no name night watchmen and wildlings-then yeah it could work, at least as a spin off tv show. But how much would it incorporate?

If only the above, then fans are going to be very disappointed and disinterested, and it will tank GOT even further as a profitable IP.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

One of the worst revelation in the books I keep getting back to is the one about who ordered Bran's assassination. It was Geoffrey who also gave the assassin a fucking dragonstone dagger (that appearantly nobody noticed went missing) to impress his cucked papa.
I don't get what was the fucking point in it, it doesn't even subvert any expectation, an evil character did an evil action for a ridiculous reason that was never followed up on.

 

[buying gf]

One of the worst revelation in the books I keep getting back to is the one about who ordered Bran's assassination. It was Geoffrey who also gave the assassin a fucking dragonstone dagger (that appearantly nobody noticed went missing) to impress his cucked papa.
I don't get what was the fucking point in it, it doesn't even subvert any expectation, an evil character did an evil action for a ridiculous reason that was never followed up on.

The whole Bran assassination thing is dumb. In addition to the reasons behind why Joffrey did it being absolutely retarded, it also doesn't have any effect on the story going forward. IIRC when Tyrion comes to the conclusion that Joffrey hired the assassin, Tyrion is in prison after Joffrey's death. Compare this to Sansa knowing that Littlefinger and Lysa killed Jon Arryn; Lysa is dead but Littlefinger is still alive, and whilst Sansa knowing this may become relevant as Littlefinger's plan unfolds, it's adding to Littlefinger's character as a long term schemer.

 

[Ishtar]

I don’t think martin really had a clear idea of the bran assassination plot beyond as a plot mechanism to trigger the Lannister stark conflict. It makes some sense that it would be LF or even Varys-but neither was present or seemingly had anyone in Robert’s party that could have done this. Martin probably realized it was something of a plot hole and no one else fit and so had Joffrey as the culprit to wrap that up as cleanly as possible, even if it doesn’t make any real sense-either from Joffrey’s character or the narrative

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

I like how most of the problems caused in the beginning were dumb people doing dumb things.

 

[CharcoalChkn]

After the show the only thing I can fondly look back on is the absolute retarded theories that some fans had way back in the day.

Tyrion being Dany's time traveling still born baby was complete schizo posting, but it was amazing.

Would have loved to be a fly on the wall when that one guy who got "hold the door" right watched the episode.

I think the Jon Snow series might be cool if it's a buddy type series with him and Tormund fighting zombies, I'll give it a go at the very least.

Getting Matt Smith to play Daemon is a total ???? for me though, the guy has an unfortunate and incredibly square head I hate looking at him and he looks disgusting with the Targ white hair.

 

[Simply Outplayed-HD]

Getting Matt Smith to play Daemon is a total ???? for me though, the guy has an unfortunate and incredibly square head I hate looking at him and he looks disgusting with the Targ white hair.

It's pretty funny that they have that foppish British faggot as a Targaryen as well as black people wearing funny wigs. I hope that he keeps his British accent and the nogs talk street.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

One of the worst revelation in the books I keep getting back to is the one about who ordered Bran's assassination. It was Geoffrey who also gave the assassin a fucking dragonstone dagger (that appearantly nobody noticed went missing) to impress his cucked papa.
I don't get what was the fucking point in it, it doesn't even subvert any expectation, an evil character did an evil action for a ridiculous reason that was never followed up on.

Bran gets pushed because he saw something. When someone tried to do it again, you know that someone's desperate to kill him because of what he saw. The first think you get, as reader, is that Cersei and Jaime have no qualms about killing someone who might discover their secret, which makes you think that they also murdered Arryn. This leads Ned to discover their secret and face Cersei, which caused him to being executed. He was right about the secret, but wrong about the murderer and the causes.

If it wasn't for the assassination attempt, people would have assumed Bran simply fell and nobody would ask any further questions because they all knew Bran liked to climb. But this make people believe that they didn't want to kill him, they wanted to silence him. They were wrong, but unintentionally discovered why Jaime first wanted him dead.

 

[Kaktus Kompot]

Be honest, Tormund and Jon North of the Wall, low fantasy adventure in icy Conan the Barbarian land would be a better show than any of this shit.

Well, at least somebody's gennting what they wanted.

 

[TheHarbinger]

One of the worst revelation in the books I keep getting back to is the one about who ordered Bran's assassination. It was Geoffrey who also gave the assassin a fucking dragonstone dagger (that appearantly nobody noticed went missing) to impress his cucked papa.
I don't get what was the fucking point in it, it doesn't even subvert any expectation, an evil character did an evil action for a ridiculous reason that was never followed up on.

This stuff is explained. Robert had the largest collection of hunting daggers in Westeros. He would not notice one was missing, even a Valyrian steel dagger, because he was a drunk and buffoon who had no attention for detail anymore. Robert says drunkenly in front of Joffrey and the Lannisters in private that Bran should be mercy killed. We know that Joffrey fantasizes about killing people and executing people. Joffrey orders Dontos executed by drowning him in wine. He wants Robb's head and body brought to Sansa. He orders Sansa to look at Ned's head. Joffrey likely ordered Meryn to try to assassinate Tyrion during the Blackwater battle.

Joffrey wants to kill. He knows his 'father' Robert is the most famous killer and warrior alive. The man who killed Prince Rhaegar in single combat and fought like a real king should. He even tells Tywin "my father won the crown while you sat in Casterly Rock". He views people like Tywin as cowards. So him mercy killing Bran to impress his father works because Joffrey is a demented incest born mess.

I don’t think martin really had a clear idea of the bran assassination plot beyond as a plot mechanism to trigger the Lannister stark conflict. It makes some sense that it would be LF or even Varys-but neither was present or seemingly had anyone in Robert’s party that could have done this. Martin probably realized it was something of a plot hole and no one else fit and so had Joffrey as the culprit to wrap that up as cleanly as possible, even if it doesn’t make any real sense-either from Joffrey’s character or the narrative

Littlefinger triggers the Lannister-Stark conflict by having Lysa send messages that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn. He tells Cat that Tyrion had that dagger and wanted Bran murdered. He manipulates both sides because he wants power for himself and cannot with two major families standing in his way. GRRM always writes these subverting expectations styles of writing. Where you have these huge prophecies and massive battles being foretold. Then nothing happens. Yeah the explanation for who sent the assassin is lame but the consequences in the books (and show) were massive. Which was part of the point.

The assassination attempt on Bran and the dagger show a few things. Life is cheap in Westeros even for lords. That Joffrey is insane at a young age. That Robert had lost respect for Ned and was openly advocating murdering his children because they were cripples. That Robert would not protect Ned's children and Ned was a naive idiot for bringing them to King's Landing. Littlefinger can get information anywhere anytime. Littlefinger was lying to the Starks early in the story.

The whole Bran assassination thing is dumb. In addition to the reasons behind why Joffrey did it being absolutely retarded, it also doesn't have any effect on the story going forward. IIRC when Tyrion comes to the conclusion that Joffrey hired the assassin, Tyrion is in prison after Joffrey's death. Compare this to Sansa knowing that Littlefinger and Lysa killed Jon Arryn; Lysa is dead but Littlefinger is still alive, and whilst Sansa knowing this may become relevant as Littlefinger's plan unfolds, it's adding to Littlefinger's character as a long term schemer.

It does not need to move the story forward if it explains things in the past. The readers are owed an explanation of who sent the assassin. At least one character knows. It takes us three books to find out who killed Jon Arryn as well. It is still five books without the official explanation of Jon's parentage which was revealed in Game of Thrones. Or who the Knight of the Laughing Tree is. There are lots of mysteries in the past that explain past events that do not need to push the plot forward.

Obviously stuff that does not push things forward in ASOIAF is aggravating at this point because of GRRM's procrastination or abandoning the story. But if the last two books were done you would probably be more forgiving of the more meandering plot points and world building. Because at least you got the end of the main story.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

This stuff is explained. Robert had the largest collection of hunting daggers in Westeros. He would not notice one was missing, even a Valyrian steel dagger, because he was a drunk and buffoon who had no attention for detail anymore. Robert says drunkenly in front of Joffrey and the Lannisters in private that Bran should be mercy killed. We know that Joffrey fantasizes about killing people and executing people. Joffrey orders Dontos executed by drowning him in wine. He wants Robb's head and body brought to Sansa. He orders Sansa to look at Ned's head. Joffrey likely ordered Meryn to try to assassinate Tyrion during the Blackwater battle.

Joffrey wants to kill. He knows his 'father' Robert is the most famous killer and warrior alive. The man who killed Prince Rhaegar in single combat and fought like a real king should. He even tells Tywin "my father won the crown while you sat in Casterly Rock". He views people like Tywin as cowards. So him mercy killing Bran to impress his father works because Joffrey is a demented incest born mess.

But the problem is that it's a bad explanation:
1. The dagger being just randomly chosen for the task is ridiculous. Even if it was the down payment for the act, it's still a massive risk to use it for the assasination and accidentally losing it while running away.
2. Even if Robert was drunk, he would have a person who's job it was to keep the collection considering how insanely expensive they are. Not to mention those daggers are worth a castle by themselves.
3. There is no connection between killing a person and ordering a person to be murdered, especially for Geoffrey that wouldn't itch his bloodlust.
4. Finally, and most damnably, Geoffrey has shown to be a smug asshole with little to no urge control. The fact he ordered Bran's death would be nearly immediately revealed by him the second Ned died.

 

[TheHarbinger]

But the problem is that it's a bad explanation:
1. The dagger being just randomly chosen for the task is ridiculous. Even if it was the down payment for the act, it's still a massive risk to use it for the assasination and accidentally losing it while running away.
2. Even if Robert was drunk, he would have a person who's job it was to keep the collection considering how insanely expensive they are. Not to mention those daggers are worth a castle by themselves.
3. There is no connection between killing a person and ordering a person to be murdered, especially for Geoffrey that wouldn't itch his bloodlust.
4. Finally, and most damnably, Geoffrey has shown to be a smug asshole with little to no urge control. The fact he ordered Bran's death would be nearly immediately revealed by him the second Ned died.

1. The assassin was likely not supposed to stab Bran to death. He was supposed to strangle him. If he stabs Bran it makes it an obvious murder that cannot be covered up. When Jon Arryn was poisoned it was easy for Pycelle to cover it up because he could pass it off as sickness. The dagger was not a weapon for assassination, it was just a form of payment instead of money. Because Joffrey did not have access to enough money to pay for an assassin. And Joffrey was a dumb kid so he chose a Valyrian dagger not knowing how insanely rare it was and how it could be traced to him (though this is contradicted during his wedding when he blurts "I am no stranger to Valyrian steel", so maybe he chose the rarest dagger on purpose). Stabbing Bran to death would be retarded but the assassin only uses the knife once he is cornered. The money he has on him could have been another payment, money he stole, or his own money. There is no definitive answer in the story.

2. Joffrey is the heir to the throne. Half of the guards of Robert are Lannister guards not his own. So Joffrey getting easy access to valuables is not a huge stretch. Him being able to look through Robert's dagger collection seems reasonable.

3. Again Joffrey is written to be insane and always looking to murder people. He openly fantasizes about staging murder scenes with dead bodies and putting corpses up as decorations. Also Joffrey in the books is younger than the actor on the show so he is immature. Joffrey orders other murders than Bran so it fits with his character.

4. This is how GRRM writes unfortunately. Things are kept secret like the obvious identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, no one suspecting that Jon was from Rhaegar, Mance ridiculously being a singer at Winterfell in front of everyone. Stuff like information in ASOIAF is generally always secret or revealed when it is convenient for the plot. Not when it actually makes sense. Like Lysa blurting out all of her and Littlefinger's secrets in front of Sansa was her pretty much breaking the fourth wall and telling the audience information. Because GRRM wanted some big shocking twist and so one his characters just starts vomiting up secret information in public. Joffrey blurting out some things but keeping others secret is the selective and inconsistent style that GRRM always does with his characters. It is why there are so many theories and characters seem unreadable.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Is it just me, or does the Westerosi aristocracy have a higher rate of congenital defects than a Vaudeville freak show?

 

[That Chris Guy]

Obviously stuff that does not push things forward in ASOIAF is aggravating at this point because of GRRM's procrastination or abandoning the story. But if the last two books were done you would probably be more forgiving of the more meandering plot points and world building. Because at least you got the end of the main story.

Yeah, Berserk fans have already suffered through that. It took over a decade for Casca to finally get her memory back, then Miura died before the next plot point could really begin.

I can only assume Martin will elect a ghostwriter or successor should he cark it early. Thing is that gardens can still be tended to after the gardener snuffs it.