Game of Thrones Thread

[John Titor]

One thing I vehemently disagree with in your speech - the setting is not low fantasy. Maybe at the beginning it tried to pretend to be one, but at this point it's completely suffused with occultism, prophecy, supernatural creatures, dragons aplenty, illusions, mind control, and so on.

Yeah I was thinking that the series was getting to the weird part of the setting. I don't think Martin is avoiding magic because he thinks all magic is deus ex machine but that there should be a price to pay; resurrection for example shreds a piece of your soul that if you overdo it, you're no different from a zombie (show forgot about this too).

The more you go into the books, the more it becomes obvious that either Mr. Martin also forgot that, or he decided to drop this particular plot point. For God's sake, one of Ned's closest friend is some sort of sorcerer who lives in a moving castle.

iirc, the books are very ambiguous about the nature of magic in Westeros. A lot of the things that the show very non-chalantly depicts as magic seems a lot more up for debate in the books and could be merely some sort of parlor trick. Arya turning blind, for instance, was the effect of some sort of potion that she drank, not that weird "eyes get cloudy from a curse" shtick from the show. Melissandre comes to mind as well. The books have her do things and describe them in a manner that make both mundane and magical explanations reasonable.
A lot of stuff is implied or never really described either. For all we know, Greywater Watch could just be a big fucking tent that the crannogmen pull down and relocate every now and then, or it's a bunch of boats tied together that move around in the swamps. It's not said to be Howl's Moving Castle, that stomps around on giant legs, that's for sure.

I think Martin was deliberately obtuse with a lot of things, like with prophecies that are never spelled out to be taken this way or that way, it's always a bunch of characters interpreting them however way they like and every single interpretation is just as valid as the others. Dumb and Dumber don't understand that concept, you can almost hear how they go "This even is to be taken this exact way, it's magic... this old fool of a bookworm Martin, he really dropped the ball by not making it more clear! Thankfully he's got us to fix that issue!"

Of course, birthing assassin-shadows, bringing people back to life and so on, that's undeniably supernatural and the creation of wildfire seems to rely on some sort of spell, too. An alchemist remarks that they have a much easier time creating wildfire and it's as if the magic in Westeros grew stronger, so there is some undeniable magic going on, but it's just a fraction of what the show just goes "lol magic, I ain't gotta explain shit" on.

I tried searching for "celtic swamp castle" and didn't really get anything you're describing, it sounds interesting though, can ya help a brotha out?

The way I imagined it, I think Martin might have been inspired by this South American tribe that built an artificial island with literal reeds. https://www.globeguide.ca/uros-reed-islands-lake-titicaca/

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Yeah I was thinking that the series was getting to the weird part of the setting. I don't think Martin is avoiding magic because he thinks all magic is deus ex machine but that there should be a price to pay; resurrection for example shreds a piece of your soul that if you overdo it, you're no different from a zombie (show forgot about this too).

Absolutely, characters like Patchface, Toros of Myr/Beric Dondarrion, etc, they all pay a very high price for their magic and I've never seen the quote where Martin talks about magic as a cheap Deus Ex Machina, but I would not be surprised if that wasn't a general statement about magic per se and more about its general use in fantasy stories. If so, I would wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The reason magic is not more prominent at the beginning is because magic at that time is weak. Uncommon for the average Westerosi, but not in Essos, whose people probably noticed it more. The arrival of the Others is a magical event. The direwolves were sent to the Stark through some magic, even though the Starks haven't noticed or care because they would have never imagined this was possible. Rather than a statement from Martin, it's a narrative plot.

Many people claim the birth of the dragons brought back magic, but that's not true. Something was already working behind scenes and made magic in the world stronger by the time of the second book that now even humans can perform some rituals or spells. As far as I know, the show never explained this because they assume that magic is an ordinary thing because this is fantasy.

 

[LordofTendons]

If this is the stuff they're showing us, I wonder how bad that scrapped Naomi Watts pilot was.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I always got the impression magic is almost lovecraftian in it's nature and application. You're effectively fucking around with cosmic principles and their's no real way you can 'get' why it works only that it does. Their's a reason why a lot of the spellcasters come from Asshai creepytown in the books.

 

[Shield Breaker]

Many people claim the birth of the dragons brought back magic, but that's not true.

The Maesters believe the dragons made it stronger, at least.

 

[Absolutego]

If this is the stuff they're showing us, I wonder how bad that scrapped Naomi Watts pilot was.

Per leaked sources, it was going to be all about how colonialism is bad, with the First Men as the horrible oppressors and the (blackwashed) Children of the Forest as the oppressed victims.

 

[Mola Ram]

Per leaked sources, it was going to be all about how colonialism is bad, with the First Men as the horrible oppressors and the (blackwashed) Children of the Forest as the oppressed victims.

What a shame we'll never see this absolutely groundbreaking idea that has never been done before even once.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Per leaked sources, it was going to be all about how colonialism is bad, with the First Men as the horrible oppressors and the (blackwashed) Children of the Forest as the oppressed victims.

They really missed out on their chance to whine about this when it was going on when it was actually brave to do so, not when it doesn't actually exist anymore and colonialism has been replaced with Imperialism, spheres of influence and corporate raiding of the third world, all things that are challenging and will get you told to shut the fuck up.

Guy right now had his passport stripped of him for winning a lawsuit against Chevron in Ecuador, where they poisoned the fucking country instead of spending 4 million to fix their toxic shit. This shit is cowardice and bougie fucking masturbation. Get fucked.

 

[Ahriman]

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1398009317572362254

Bruh.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

That's not waterboarding. Yeah I guess it fucking sucks, but a) she's an actress and acting ain't just fun, sunshine and cocaine and b) it ain't fucking waterboarding. If she had been waterboarded for 10 hours, she'd be a sobbing, clinically insane mess. People are known to break their fucking arms within minutes of waterboarding while trying to free themselves in panic.
She got strapped to a table for a few scenes and another actress poured some stuff in her face for a short moment. Get a fucking grip, lady.

Also, she looks better in the Unella costume. In that makeup with that hair, she looks like someone that would work in a drugstore in Belfast.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

It's not waterboarding, but it's not the first time that there have been reports of the production team being assholes.

 

[vulg]

It's not waterboarding, but it's not the first time that there have been reports of the production team being assholes.

my favourite was when david benioff forced the camera team to zoom in on a baby's penis while that baby was screaming in fear

 

[Lemmingwise]

That's not waterboarding. Yeah I guess it fucking sucks, but a) she's an actress and acting ain't just fun, sunshine and cocaine and b) it ain't fucking waterboarding. If she had been waterboarded for 10 hours, she'd be a sobbing, clinically insane mess. People are known to break their fucking arms within minutes of waterboarding while trying to free themselves in panic.
She got strapped to a table for a few scenes and another actress poured some stuff in her face for a short moment. Get a fucking grip, lady.

Also, she looks better in the Unella costume. In that makeup with that hair, she looks like someone that would work in a drugstore in Belfast.

It may not be quite waterboarding. But it's not the cakewalk you seem to think it is either.

Filming movies/ series is already very anxiety inducing; this is why it's hard. Then as soon as you're rolling, you don't have the safewords either; it's not like a little bdsm play with your missus. You really do have to experience it to make a scene and thetr is the pressure of a 100 people counting on you to not waste even a minute of time, as everybody on the set is waiting for the actors to het the scene right.

Speaking from experience, playing being tortured, like for example alfie/theon had to do is pretty emotionally taxing itself. To get things right, you kinda have to fool your body it is real. Therefor it is as close to real as it can get for your body. That is why the actress in hitchcock shower movie never again showered with a curtain again; if someone was coming she wanted to see it coming. It's why shelley duvalle from the shining had severe emotional issues after that movie.

Now you couple that with something that removes your breath and being unprepared for it, and it kinda multiplies. Of course it isn't waterboarding, it's an actor, saying things are real when they're not quite is their job.

But I struggle to find anything comparably intense that any civilian job has. Maybe a doctor trying to futily trying to save a kids life or something.

---

Anyways I came to this thread because I wanred to post some webms, which are completely out of tone with my post, lol.

Actusl quote from the books, about 14 year old Daenarys travelling with the Khalasar:

 

[Shokaract]

Besides casting a black as Corelys, which is fucking retarded, and the fact that GRRM probably approved this shows he gives zero shits about his property and the world he created anymore. The casting of Matt Smith as Daemon is also weird to me. I mean common, the Valyrians are supposed to look unnaturally beautiful, couldn't you find a better looking actor to play him. Matt Smith just looks fucking weird. I'm am not trying to be mean, but I don't know, his looks are ok for someone playing a wacky doctor who, but not a Targaryen.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Filming movies/ series is already very anxiety inducing; this is why it's hard. Then as soon as you're rolling, you don't have the safewords either; it's not like a little bdsm play with your missus. You really do have to experience it to make a scene and thetr is the pressure of a 100 people counting on you to not waste even a minute of time, as everybody on the set is waiting for the actors to het the scene right.

Let's keep shit real, it's a job. Many jobs are stressful, that's by absolutely no means unique to acting and a lot of people have way more stressful lives at a fraction of the income. Many jobs have high stakes and acting isn't one of them. You blow a scene, you repeat the shot. Some money down the drain, whoop-de-fucking-do. Unless you make a habit of that during really expensive shots, you'll be fine.
As an actor you're potentially part of an expensive project, but in order to get to that point (ie: no longer act on a third rate theatre stage in a rural fly-over-state), you need to be a professional that doesn't get the heeby-jeebies when on set - or else you're simply not fit for the job, full stop.
To claim that only "Maybe a doctor trying to futily trying to save a kids life or something" matches that level of stress is complete and utter lunacy of the worst melodramatic kind. We're talking about a minor actor in a minor role on a TV show, ffs.

Just for shit's n giggles. I once met a guy who works in a high-tech company and he told me he once had to handle a carrier box containing a prototype run of a dozen wavers of new microchips for the automotive industry with a total value exceeding a million Euros. Literally the product of years of research, months of setting up the newly created machines and robots just right to make a completely new, unique and revolutionary chip... and the guy slips and drops the box on the floor, chips and broken wavers spilling all over the place. His boss was standing right next to him when it happened. And the boss of his boss, too. And you're telling me being put on a table and getting half a goblet of liquid poured in your face is stressful. Give me a fucking break

Speaking from experience, playing being tortured, like for example alfie/theon had to do is pretty emotionally taxing itself. To get things right, you kinda have to fool your body it is real. Therefor it is as close to real as it can get for your body. That is why the actress in hitchcock shower movie never again showered with a curtain again; if someone was coming she wanted to see it coming. It's why shelley duvalle from the shining had severe emotional issues after that movie.

and

Now you couple that with something that removes your breath and being unprepared for it

Dude. When I said that people break their arms within minutes of starting to get waterboarded, I was not kidding or exaggerating. Being waterboarded is incomprehensibly agonizing and every human instinct is telling you that you are horribly dying in an unfathomably painful way.
Getting some liquid poured in your face in an entirely harmless manner in a controlled environment *IS* in comparison a fucking. Cakewalk.

And no matter how much you delude yourself into "really buying into it" or whatever, it is not the same thing. Not even by the widest of margins. You might as well compare a stubbed toe to getting your foot rammed up your thorax by a landmine - and yes, that can happen when you step on a landmine. A guy who used to work as a bomb and landmine defuser in the middle east told me that. But I guess getting a bit of liquid softly splashed on your face is way more stressful than standing in the middle of a desert not knowing if the next step will make you suffocate on your own fucking tibia.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Besides casting a black as Corelys, which is fucking retarded, and the fact that GRRM probably approved this shows he gives zero shits about his property and the world he created anymore. The casting of Matt Smith as Daemon is also weird to me. I mean common, the Valyrians are supposed to look unnaturally beautiful, couldn't you find a better looking actor to play him. Matt Smith just looks fucking weird. I'm am not trying to be mean, but I don't know, his looks are ok for someone playing a wacky doctor who, but not a Targaryen.

We can't have beautiful white people, that would be glorifying nazis.

But a smirking anglo? Sure.

Getting some liquid poured in your face in an entirely harmless manner in a controlled environment

I've read what you wrote, but I think people really overestimate how well controlled such an environment is. Sets are fucking chaotic messes since they're run by creative people who are typically retarded by the logistics of things. That's how you get things like brandon lee shot dead in a scene.

We also haven't seen exactly what happened in the scene so how exactly harmless/riskfree it was is entirely speculation.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I've read what you wrote, but I think people really overestimate how well controlled such an environment is. Sets are fucking chaotic messes since they're run by creative people who are typically retarded by the logistics of things. That's how you get things like brandon lee shot dead in a scene.

We also haven't seen exactly what happened in the scene so how exactly harmless/riskfree it was is entirely speculation.

She can literally go "I refuse to do this, free me right now, I leave" at any given moment. They won't put hot pokers up her ass to force her to act out the scene.
It's surely unpleasant to be tied to a table for a torture scene, but she was overstating it in a way that's just ridiculous.

 

[Lemmingwise]

She can literally go "I refuse to do this, free me right now, I leave" at any given moment. They won't put hot pokers up her ass to force her to act out the scene.
It's surely unpleasant to be tied to a table for a torture scene, but she was overstating it in a way that's just ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm sure she isn't intimately aware of what waterboarding is like in practice. It's a bit hard to prepare for a scene and do research when the scene is changed after you get to set.

She says child birth was the worst day of her life and then the second worst was this one. That seems like a completely reasonable assessment.

Especially with a set that is being so sloppy at that point that coffeemugs and cars were making it not just into the shots, but also into editing and then also into the final product.

 

[Mola Ram]

She can literally go "I refuse to do this, free me right now, I leave" at any given moment. They won't put hot pokers up her ass to force her to act out the scene.
It's surely unpleasant to be tied to a table for a torture scene, but she was overstating it in a way that's just ridiculous.

While I don't entirely disagree with your points (I tend toward Woody Allen's assessment, "The physical labor actors do wouldn't tax a fetus"), this is really oversimplifying things. What you're describing is breach of contract, and actors can be sued right out of the profession if they do it. Look into how Kim Basinger's career nearly crashed and burned because she pulled out of Boxing Helena on the grounds it was sick amputee porn.