General GunTuber thread

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Heavy though. And to get to your back up irons you have to rip off the optic and the mount (at least I think).

Not really, assuming of course you don't stick all kinds of shit all over it.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Not that heavy, just skip the Government Profile barrel which people commonly go for, there's barrels which give you the same or better performance for quite a bit less weight. The M16A2 really tacked on a bunch of dead weight on the AR15 which most people are still sticking with because the US Army still keeps most of it on the M16A4 and M4A1.

 

[wopirish]

Not that heavy, just skip the Government Profile barrel which people commonly go for, there's barrels which give you the same or better performance for quite a bit less weight. The M16A2 really tacked on a bunch of dead weight on the AR15 which most people are still sticking with because the US Army still keeps most of it on the M16A4 and M4A1.

I'll give the WWSD credit on Blokeontherange and Ian doing an excellent video and talking specifically about the modern pencil barrels. It was at Finnish Brutality I think.

 

[UVB-76]

Heavy though. And to get to your back up irons you have to rip off the optic and then rip off the mount (at least I think).

Carry handle specific mounts usually have a channel built into them.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

Heavy though. And to get to your back up irons you have to rip off the optic and then rip off the mount (at least I think).

a stock standard M16a1 feels like a toy gun its so light. especially coming from 14 pound M4's with every kind of doodad piled onto them.

 

[AGPinochet]

Carry handle specific mounts usually have a channel built into them.

I suspected as much, thanks for confirming

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I suspected as much, thanks for confirming

And even if it is slightly heavier, "heavy" for an AR is very relative since they rarely get above 8.5 pounds or so unless you've got a 24 inch HBAR and all the accoutrements on it. The average AR is about 7-8 pounds which is not a heavy rifle.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

Not that heavy, just skip the Government Profile barrel which people commonly go for, there's barrels which give you the same or better performance for quite a bit less weight. The M16A2 really tacked on a bunch of dead weight on the AR15 which most people are still sticking with because the US Army still keeps most of it on the M16A4 and M4A1.

The story behind how the Government profile came to exist is hilarious.

 

[Baked Al-Aqsa]

The video made me realize that the relatively new "Carry handle mount is just the same as 1.93 risers in terms of height over bore raising except cheaper" line of thinking is very interesting to me and I wonder how it will stand the test of time.

Cheaper? If this was the mid 2000s, that might be true. These days, carry handle uppers command a much higher price than flat tops (especially if it includes a complete rear sight assembly) thanks to suddenly every retard and their dad wanting to make a "muh accurate (insert whatever) clone build".

And that's before you take into account the other issues you might have with a carry handle upper: Typically no M4 feed ramps, QC issues on newly made ones (especially from newer Luth-AR A1s), you absolutely need a non F-marked FSB for a barrel shorter than 20", and no free floated solutions on the market (at least none I have seen).

Inb4 "just use a detachable carry handle lol", they look like ass and I don't like 'em. Real CH or bust. Simple as.

a stock standard M16a1 feels like a toy gun its so light. especially coming from 14 pound M4's with every kind of doodad piled onto them.

I just made a couple of KP-15 builds (pls no bully, local gun shop had them for 80 bucks and I couldn't say no) and I'm honestly astounded how light I was able to get them. Maybe Karl drinking from Satan's cum chalice leads to an interesting project every now and then...

Edit: wtf? Did Jewsh seriously censor the word r e t a r d ? You truly are retarded @Null. D0n't t0uch the p00p btw.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I just made a couple of KP-15 builds (pls no bully, local gun shop had them for 80 bucks and I couldn't say no) and I'm honestly astounded how light I was able to get them. Maybe Karl drinking from Satan's cum chalice leads to an interesting project every now and then...

That was the entire point of the whole thing, last I checked. Make it stupid light.

Edit: wtf? Did Jewsh seriously censor the word r e t a r d ? You truly are exceptional @Null. D0n't t0uch the p00p btw.

Oh, is the retard word filter back on? I missed that stupid thing.

ETA: yes, yes it is!

 

[Club Sandwich]

absolutely need a non F-marked FSB for a barrel shorter than 20"

that's not quite how it worked; these days you would be hard pressed to find a combination of FSB and barrel length and upper that would have problems. barrel length didn't really come into it unless your zero (for whatever reason) was something like 20 clicks below the FSB shelf, which is some pretty spectacular adjustment that isn't really seen outside the field sight uppers.

no free floated solutions on the market

there are an awful lot of free float tubes using the old DPMS jam nut system, or the adapted YHM ring and screw system out there.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

Did Jewsh seriously censor the word r e t a r d ?

You must be new here or like cоke
zero.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

Cheaper? If this was the mid 2000s, that might be true. These days, carry handle uppers command a much higher price than flat tops (especially if it includes a complete rear sight assembly) thanks to suddenly every exceptional individual and their dad wanting to make a "muh accurate (insert whatever) clone build".

And that's before you take into account the other issues you might have with a carry handle upper: Typically no M4 feed ramps, QC issues on newly made ones (especially from newer Luth-AR A1s), you absolutely need a non F-marked FSB for a barrel shorter than 20", and no free floated solutions on the market (at least none I have seen).

Inb4 "just use a detachable carry handle lol", they look like ass and I don't like 'em. Real CH or bust. Simple as.

I just made a couple of KP-15 builds (pls no bully, local gun shop had them for 80 bucks and I couldn't say no) and I'm honestly astounded how light I was able to get them. Maybe Karl drinking from Satan's cum chalice leads to an interesting project every now and then...

Edit: wtf? Did Jewsh seriously censor the word r e t a r d ? You truly are exceptional @Null. D0n't t0uch the p00p btw.

A carry handle for a flattop is just 50 dollars if you search around.

 

[Baked Al-Aqsa]

That was the entire point of the whole thing, last I checked. Make it stupid light.

I'm fully aware. My inner boomer can't help but marvel out loud how awesome it is that you can make an AR that light and possibly lighter. One of my builds is a bit less than 6.5 pounds with a white light, red dot, and sling.

that's not quite how it worked; these days you would be hard pressed to find a combination of FSB and barrel length and upper that would have problems. barrel length didn't really come into it unless your zero (for whatever reason) was something like 20 clicks below the FSB shelf, which is some pretty spectacular adjustment that isn't really seen outside the field sight uppers.

I tried to do an A2 fixed handle with a 14.5 M4 barrel with a carbine system and F marked fsb. I had issues and pretty much bottomed out the sight. A carbine sight radius is a bit short for the shelf on a F marked fsb. That's my experience anyway.

there are an awful lot of free float tubes using the old DPMS jam nut system, or the adapted YHM ring and screw system out there.

I'm not sure offhand which ones you're referring to, but if they're anything like the centurion/KAC/midwest quad rail handguards that allow a FSB clearance, those are some heavy and clunky turd burglars. I've searched around and nobody seems interested in making lightweight Mlok free float handguard for A1s or A2s.

Yes, I'm aware that you can disassemble the barrel assembly and replace the barrel nut so a modern 12" ff handguard will work, but it would look like shit with an A1 or A2 upper.

 

[Still Anonymous For This]

The video made me realize that the relatively new "Carry handle mount is just the same as 1.93 risers in terms of height over bore raising except cheaper" line of thinking is very interesting to me and I wonder how it will stand the test of time.

The most recent AR I've built was off of an old A1 upper from the 1980s that I got from a gun store in Phoenix for $30-40 years ago. I wanted a 20" AR with triangular handguards, because ever since slapping a carbine set on a 14.5" flat-top build I made, I've absolutely loved them when I'm shooting. Slapped a cheap mount and a Holosun on it and it is an excellent rifle to shoot.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

I'm fully aware. My inner boomer can't help but marvel out loud how awesome it is that you can make an AR that light and possibly lighter. One of my builds is a bit less than 6.5 pounds with a white light, red dot, and sling.

I tried to do an A2 fixed handle with a 14.5 M4 barrel with a carbine system and F marked fsb. I had issues and pretty much bottomed out the sight. A carbine sight radius is a bit short for the shelf on a F marked fsb. That's my experience anyway.

I'm not sure offhand which ones you're referring to, but if they're anything like the centurion/KAC/midwest quad rail handguards that allow a FSB clearance, those are some heavy and clunky turd burglars. I've searched around and nobody seems interested in making lightweight Mlok free float handguard for A1s or A2s.

Yes, I'm aware that you can disassemble the barrel assembly and replace the barrel nut so a modern 12" ff handguard will work, but it would look like shit with an A1 or A2 upper.

this is a free floated handguard. they are used alot at camp perry. it goes under the regular handguards.
but I dont think the non free floated handguards make the rifle inaccurate at all. if you are shooting long and heavy .223 at 1000 yards in precision matches yeah probably but at regular ranges? a stock standard A1/A2/A4/M4 will hit center mass every time to 500 yards if you do your part.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I'm fully aware. My inner boomer can't help but marvel out loud how awesome it is that you can make an AR that light and possibly lighter. One of my builds is a bit less than 6.5 pounds with a white light, red dot, and sling.

I get it, don't worry. I started out with an old-ass SKS (still got that heap of junk in my safe, still love it), and every time I reach for my AR I'm reminded of just how damn light that thing is. And I have a good amount of junk hanging off it since I'm most comfortable with a 8lb rifle. I think those "weight-savings at all costs" builds are very gimmicky unless you're marching around with the gun, but I absolutely recognize the technical achievements involved in them. If you had showed me a skeletonized AR back in the late 90s I would have asked you which sci-fi show it was from.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

I get it, don't worry. I started out with an old-ass SKS (still got that heap of junk in my safe, still love it), and every time I reach for my AR I'm reminded of just how damn light that thing is. And I have a good amount of junk hanging off it since I'm most comfortable with a 8lb rifle. I think those "weight-savings at all costs" builds are very gimmicky unless you're marching around with the gun, but I absolutely recognize the technical achievements involved in them. If you had showed me a skeletonized AR back in the late 90s I would have asked you which sci-fi show it was from.

original M16A1 was 6.37 pounds.

 

[Fools Idol]

I'm fully aware. My inner boomer can't help but marvel out loud how awesome it is that you can make an AR that light and possibly lighter. One of my builds is a bit less than 6.5 pounds with a white light, red dot, and sling.

I take it that you haven't seen the plastic uppers then.

 

[Club Sandwich]

A carry handle for a flattop is just 50 dollars if you search around.

i've played with a few of the cheap ones from NC Star and Double Star and wasn't impressed with their long range accuracy - neither could mechanically zero and the NC Star model had one extra elevation detente (!) which doesn't work unless you want to retool for 1 MOA adjustments instead of 1.25 MOA. a "real" carry handle is $30 more from either a surplus outlet or from someone like Fulton or Colt or Bushmaster, even DPMS and they seem to work fine.

I've searched around and nobody seems interested in making lightweight Mlok free float handguard for A1s or A2s

VLTOR CAS-V, MWI makes several clamp on model using the stock barrel nut, Swan Manufacturing ARMS SIR (if you're old like me and have vintage 80's and 90's tactical rifles), KAC MRE, Centurion Arms C4, JP MK series, et c. while some are clamp on and others use a separate barrel nut, many will require at least removing the front sight block during the installation. trying to rely purely on the rear slip ring - a spring loaded clamp for polymer handguards - will not work as the handguard should be rigid and resist flex. even the Camp Perry free float tubes require removing the FSB and installing the free float to a modified barrel nut (RRA National Match used to sell this for example, and Double Star still does) to keep the "as issued" appearance required for competition.

I tried to do an A2 fixed handle with a 14.5 M4 barrel with a carbine system and F marked fsb. I had issues and pretty much bottomed out the sight. A carbine sight radius is a bit short for the shelf on a F marked fsb. That's my experience anyway.

that is because there is 0.040" of travel difference between the two front sight bases owing to the F marked front sight base being 0.040" taller at the shelf (space between the "ears" of the front sight base). this is enough to be about 24 clicks of elevation adjustment (each detente on modern front sight posts is 1.25 MOA, or 5 MOA per full rotation). that mean to achieve the same zero between identical rifles with differing sight blocks, the one using the F marked front sight base will require 6 additional full turns (7.5 MOA adjustment) downwards to meet the zero of the rifle with the non-F marked front sight base. this holds true for 17.7"-23" barrel length rifles.

if you are using a setup equivalent to an XM4 or Colt Model 727 with the F marked front sight base, you must use the tall front sight post (0.300" in height vs the A1 0.260") to accomodate the difference. there is also the Bushmaster tall front sight post which is 0.310" meant for their export M4A3 export rifles that work well for the same purpose if you have A2 target rear sights. these alternate front sight posts are meant for the shorter sight plane of barrels between 10.3" and 17.7" and the tall post can be used for the Colt SMG as well, but the Colt DOE SMG needs a special one just for it that is 0.330" in height (for the 7" barrel).

part numbers for tall front sight post:
Bushmaster/Windham Weaponry PN 9349056 mod 1
Colt PN SP62447