General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[ToroidalBoat]

A lot of furries trooned out all around that exact same time the trans shit started getting heavily pushed, too.

So many "furries" went "transgender", many "weeaboos" went "transgender", seems the "bronies" also went "transgender", and even a number of IT guys went "transgender" also? It has been said that "HRT" and "transgender" "ideology" spread among the "geeky" like crack did among blacks in the late 20th century, and it sure looks that way. All this "transgender" movement really do seem "astroturfed" or "socially engineered, rather than a phenomenon that emerged organically. Also it became a thing suspiciously quickly.

 

[The Lawgiver]

So many "furries" went "transgender", many "weeaboos" went "transgender", seems the "bronies" also went "transgender", and even a number of IT guys went "transgender" also? It has been said that "HRT" and "transgender" "ideology" spread among the "geeky" like crack did among blacks in the late 20th century, and it sure looks that way. All this "transgender" movement really do seem "astroturfed" or "socially engineered, rather than a phenomenon that emerged organically. Also it became a thing suspiciously quickly.

There were always trannies on the internet, some in geek circles, but they were very very different than the tumblr pride flag "EVERYONE IS GOING TO KILL USSSSS AND CRITICS ARE TRANSPHOBIC" ones that cropped up after the subversion of OWS everywhere out of fucking nowhere. Similar kind of vibes to the progstack shit that showed up and almost immediately got lapped up by every organization and company ever for a bit.

I almost forgot about this till like looking at old forum post archives posted in the homestuck thread ofall fucking things last year or so, and then I was like "oh yeah there were quite a few of them but they were just like normal internet people with obvious self image related depression or mental illness demons they were dealing with".

 

[ToroidalBoat]

There were always trannies on the internet, some in geek circles, but they were very very different [...]

I take it "transsexuals" before Current Year were far rarer than Clown World "transgenders"?

 

[skykiii]

Hey, so I talked to a friend I hadn't spoken to in like years and he told me he's taking HRT.

But not to transition. He's a man, and somehow he got it in his head that taking the one that gives you testosterone would make him more manly.

Like... I'm kinda stressed because I have a feeling he's completely wrong and is actually doing harm to his body, but of course search engines are absolutely useless for finding actual info on weird situations like this.

Can anyone here tell me whether what dude is doing is actually safe or not?

 

[The Lawgiver]

Hey, so I talked to a friend I hadn't spoken to in like years and he told me he's taking HRT.

But not to transition. He's a man, and somehow he got it in his head that taking the one that gives you testosterone would make him more manly.

Like... I'm kinda stressed because I have a feeling he's completely wrong and is actually doing harm to his body, but of course search engines are absolutely useless for finding actual info on weird situations like this.

Can anyone here tell me whether what dude is doing is actually safe or not?

It's getting harder to show people that hormones arent magic gender units and yeah unless he's got a severe hormonal mbalance he probably shouldnt be taking those. Short term gains vs. rare hormone imbalance inducedhorrific health issues and cancers type shit.
Have seen people use HRT shit like steroids with extra steps but I've never seen people gan anything from it.

 

[Endless Torment]

Hey, so I talked to a friend I hadn't spoken to in like years and he told me he's taking HRT.

But not to transition. He's a man, and somehow he got it in his head that taking the one that gives you testosterone would make him more manly.

Like... I'm kinda stressed because I have a feeling he's completely wrong and is actually doing harm to his body, but of course search engines are absolutely useless for finding actual info on weird situations like this.

Can anyone here tell me whether what dude is doing is actually safe or not?

Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) is a thing, but no it's not safe to randomly take hormones without a doctor regulating and examining you.
There are still side effects to it and you can find them by researching TRT as you will get medical information instead of random troon shit.

 

[AssignedEva]

Hey, so I talked to a friend I hadn't spoken to in like years and he told me he's taking HRT.

But not to transition. He's a man, and somehow he got it in his head that taking the one that gives you testosterone would make him more manly.

Like... I'm kinda stressed because I have a feeling he's completely wrong and is actually doing harm to his body, but of course search engines are absolutely useless for finding actual info on weird situations like this.

Can anyone here tell me whether what dude is doing is actually safe or not?

Your friend is uncritically attempting to do this meme

You're not going to find much hits if you search "what happens if you take testosterone", but testosterone is itself classed as an anabolic steroid (anabolic steroids are effectively things that are related to testosterone). If you look up the health risks of anabolic steroids/steroid abuse you'll find the information you're after, it obviously can be very risky and lead to a variety of side effects in men from infertility to breast growth (the body can convert excess testosterone into estrogen) to increased risk of heart attacks and strokes.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

Hey, so I talked to a friend I hadn't spoken to in like years and he told me he's taking HRT.

But not to transition. He's a man, and somehow he got it in his head that taking the one that gives you testosterone would make him more manly.

Like... I'm kinda stressed because I have a feeling he's completely wrong and is actually doing harm to his body, but of course search engines are absolutely useless for finding actual info on weird situations like this.

Can anyone here tell me whether what dude is doing is actually safe or not?

Your friend is a retard that will shorten his life span and also make it so he will never be able to quit. Once you take testosterone your body will drastically reduce how much it produces naturally and never will recover.

 

[Justin Igger]

I was watching Hannibal (TV show) and this line he gives to Francis Dolarhyde could perfectly apply to trannies;

You were seized by a fantasy world with the brilliance and freshness and immediacy of childhood. It took you a step beyond alone.

 

[Anteater Alien]

I think a lot of younger transgendered people aren't actually transgender at all, in fact a lot of them campaign for "being trans without dysphoria" or xenopronoun genderspecial identities. I live my life around a lot of these people and find them quite honestly annoying. I don't think they should dictate the transgender discussion either as they are, in all reality, not transgender.

I think sex based spaces are good and important. I think those under 18 taking hormones/getting surgeries is bad. And I think that AGP/AAP is a driving reason for a lot of the old-aged transgender population, that are usually just transvestites/crossies.

However; I do have transgendered friends who are mentally struggling and have taken hormones/put effort into passing and seemingly mentally bettered themselves. They're decent people to talk to, not in your face about it, and don't expect anything out of anyone in return.
I believe this new wave of the transgender rights movement is run by a group of people in a psychosis state masquerading under the label of transgender in order to dictate the image of the community into one that allows pedophilic and indoctrinating actions. They believe that being under the in-group of "transgender" shields you from all criticism on your actions as you're a protected group.
They do not put effort into passing. Dye their hair eccentric colors and wear clown makeup in public. They sob and cry at the notion that they are their birth sex. Completely irrational people to talk to with no personality outside of transgenderism.
The concepts of non binary, "demi boy"/"demi girl", etc. are not real things that should be coddled by society.

In turn though, I do believe in actual transgender people with severe gender dysphoria over the age of 18 with strict regulations (25 with none) using HRT to soothe dysphoric symptoms. I believe that it can be beneficial for some people, but that percentage of people is a LOT lower than what's being publicized now. The number of gender-nonconforming and transgender identifying individuals has definitely majorly increased in a way that feels almost planted. As opposed to the prior transsexual movement.
That's why I'm able to sympathize with those adverse to the transgender rights movement because it feels planted by a group of sex pests in order to de-legitimize a form of genuine mental illness that effects real people. They steal these HRT resources from those who actually need it and pump children who don't know better with cross-sex hormones.

I wish all of this could be reverted somehow. It's difficult when I know people and am good friends with people impacted by this illness who do not talk about it in fear of being lumped in with these sociopaths.

 

[Marvin]

In turn though, I do believe in actual transgender people with severe gender dysphoria over the age of 18 with strict regulations (25 with none) using HRT to soothe dysphoric symptoms.

The evidence base that HRT helps gender dysphoria symptoms basically doesn't exist.

Like, certainly people claim their symptoms improve after starting HRT, but the purpose of rigorous drug testing is to suss out issues like the placebo effect.

Some studies exist that go both ways, but they're low quality and there's basically no solid consensus from it.

Based on the available evidence there's no reason to believe:
1) that a feminine acting male has some specific biological issue that causes their dysphoria
2) and that taking cross sex hormones can help with that biological issue

Might as well give them boxed wine and tell them it'll help. It'll more or less have the same benefits, and the downsides are better studied and understood.

These people just need therapy. That's the best reputable medicine has to offer.

 

[Not A Bunny]

The evidence base that HRT helps gender dysphoria symptoms basically doesn't exist.

Never mind the evidence base. How about the idea that such a thing can't be empirically proven?

We are counting on unreliable narrators that demand that we cannot possibly understand nor question, while at the same time saying they are soothed into a condition ("feeling as the opposite sex") that they have absolutely no baseline for.

It's not like, say a pain in your knee. You know what it feels like when your knee doesn't hurt, because it presumably has a normal state of not being hurt.

These people can't reliably tell you that they're in the appropriate end state because they have no baseline for it.

 

[Marvin]

Never mind the evidence base. How about the idea that such a thing can't be empirically proven?

We are counting on unreliable narrators that demand that we cannot possibly understand nor question, while at the same time saying they are soothed into a condition ("feeling as the opposite sex") that they have absolutely no baseline for.

It's not like, say a pain in your knee. You know what it feels like when your knee doesn't hurt, because it presumably has a normal state of not being hurt.

These people can't reliably tell you that they're in the appropriate end state because they have no baseline for it.

The troon jabbering about "feeling like a woman" is stupid hippie / postmodern / pervert nonsense. It's a meaningless claim and you're right that that cannot function as a baseline.

The medical justification for having gender identity care is gender dysphoria, which is just that they feel depressed and upset by their sexed body. It's similar to what anorexics have, body dysmorphia.

The baseline in both cases is when they stop hating their bodies.

 

[Anteater Alien]

The evidence base that HRT helps gender dysphoria symptoms basically doesn't exist.

Like, certainly people claim their symptoms improve after starting HRT, but the purpose of rigorous drug testing is to suss out issues like the placebo effect.

I guess medical records/studies likely have that result. But I’ve somehow noticed the opposite.

For context; I work in the therapy sector and have quite a few clients who come to me claiming themselves to be transgender. In my few years of work, I’ve noticed it to be quite obvious when someone is faking dysphoric symptoms.

They often do this to get access to HRT, and most therapists aren’t really trained to dissuade them if they mention dysphoric symptoms even if they aren’t telling the truth.
I’ve had clients who are transsexual and honest about their thoughts, and ended up on HRT to a noticeable benefit. The previous demographic though always ends up some sort of nonbinary or detransitioner who blames the everyone else for their shitty decisions.

Maybe I have too much faith in these people but I believe HRT can be beneficial for a small minority.

 

[Marvin]

I’ve had clients who are transsexual and honest about their thoughts, and ended up on HRT to a noticeable benefit.

Steroids do make you feel pretty sweet.

 

[Hassou Tobi]

Steroids do make you feel pretty sweet.

Yes, it's been discussed here that T induces manic feelings in a lot of pooners and that can lead to them feeling temporarily euphoric and "wow everything is so much better now!"
People aren't born in the wrong body with magic brains that need opposite sex hormones to function properly. It doesn't make sense.

 

[AssignedEva]

Sorry, you just asserted that a "species" is defined by "individuals that can interbreed to produce fertile offspring". That's a high school biology definition.

First of all, what do you mean individuals that can interbreed? I've got two male dogs, they can't have puppies - so what, are they different species? My cat's fixed and she can't have kittens - so is she not a cat anymore? Not to mention humans undergo menopause; are they not human any more? Do you tie someone's humanity to their ability to have children? Do you want to rape babies to see if they're fertile, you creepy sick fuck, or are you trying to justify treating them inhumanely because they don't count as humans yet? Are you trying to justify genociding babies through your bioessentialist hate rhetoric, since they can't interbreed with humans to produce fertile offspring so are animals you can hunt for sport? Are you literally trying to enact violence against babies??

Not to mention this whole fertile offspring bullshit. People say horses and donkeys are different species, and mules are just "infertile hybrids". Let me show you something that will blow your tiny mind.

Sometimes mules can get pregnant!!!!! I know your high school teacher told you "they have an odd number of chromosomes so are infertile because they can't viably produce haploid cells through meiosis" but how do you even know what chromosomes an organism has? Are you walking around karyotyping everything you see?! Plus there's actual scientific consensus of something - you wouldn't know about it because you're so stupid - called "behavioural speciation", where like fruit flies undergo prezygotic reproductive isolation because they don't understand each other's mating behaviours, but can produce fertile offspring if you do like fruit fly IVF. So like are they different species or the same species!?

What about ring species?

Is the herring gull one species or multiple different species? You're just going to arbitrarily categorise them as such? You can't just draw hard lines through reality because it makes you more comfortable.

You're trying to go back to some stupid regressive version of the past that you've imagined where "everyone knew what a species was".

People used to think glass eels, elvers, yellow eels and silver eels were all different species - it wasn't until the 1890s that people realised those were life stages of the European Eel! And people thought the Portugese Man O'War is a "species" when it's actually a plural system of commensal organisms. You want to erase their truth. You literally want to live like Medieval people who thought sheep could grow on trees, and that's so... sad for you. That's not it, chief.

Not to mention this weird fixation you have about "interbreeding". Are you just assuming that everything fucks like some 1950s "Leave It To Beaver" charmed circle married white Christian couple? What about the lesbian lizards?

There's actually lots of forms of reproduction. All the male lizards went extinct but the lesbian lizards are still reproducing through parthenogenesis. But they literally can't interbreed as a result. So what, they're not a species? They're not alive? You're free to put them in the microwave for your sick kicks because according to you they don't count as alive? You're a fucking zoosadist trying to justify your perverted behaviour. Not to mention double fertilisation of - especially - wind pollinated plants?
See? Sex isn't what you think it is, what you call interbreeding isn't some simple straightforward thing. I bet you think it's justified to deforest the Amazon because those plants don't count as interbreeding in your narrow definition of the world. Not to mention all commercially grown bananas are infertile clones incapable of breeding... so do you want to go arresting people who eat bananas, you fuck?

Plus what if in the future they had advanced gene therapy technology that meant you could become your fursona, and then you could interbreed with foxes to produce fertile offspring? Would you still say they're a different species then, or can tiny mind not comprehend that the world doesn't revolve around making bigots feel comfortable? What if we found aliens like the Asari from Mass Effect who can interbreed to produce fertile offspring with any species!? You call me a special snowflake but you're the one lashing out because your fee-fees got hurt.

All I want to do is marry this ram that I bought off a farmer. But your assertion "that's a fucking different species, you can't marry it, also it's not even a ram, it's a sheep" - why do you hate love? Why are you so concerned about controlling other people when we just want to live? We've just established that there's no objective thing as a species, you can't define a species in a way that includes all biological situations without excluding any biological edge cases - so it's a social construct, THEREFORE the only thing that matters is that I define him as a human man.

ANYWAY what do you even mean by he's "biologically a different species"? He's biologically my species, because he's my species since I say so, and he's not a robot so he's biological. How would you even check what biological species someone is? Do you want to set up rape stations so you can rape animals all day to see if they're fertile for you, you freak? Your psychosexual obsession with animal genitals is so repulsive. It is none of your business what's in an organism's reproductive system.

This is what their arguments about biological sex sound like. Including scientific inaccuracies, the Herring Gull Complex is no longer considered to be an example of a ring species. I had to sit through three hours of that insanity yesterday while pretending to politely agree and it really was all like this.

 

[teriyakiburns]

This is what their arguments about biological sex sound like. Including scientific inaccuracies, the Herring Gull Complex is no longer considered to be an example of a ring species. I had to sit through three hours of that insanity yesterday while pretending to politely agree and it really was all like this.

I was getting ready to have an argument. Now I just want to buy you a stiff drink and a weekend at a therapy spa.

 

[AnOminous]

This is what their arguments about biological sex sound like.

It's what we used to call a Gish Gallop when idiots like Young Earth Creationists did it. Just throw out a series of disconnected dubious claims that it takes longer to refute than to make, or that are completely irrelevant, and then if someone doesn't spend hours nitpicking through every single one, you seize on that and declare victory.

The only way to win is not to play.

 

[Paper Machete]

Yes, it's been discussed here that T induces manic feelings in a lot of pooners and that can lead to them feeling temporarily euphoric and "wow everything is so much better now!"
People aren't born in the wrong body with magic brains that need opposite sex hormones to function properly. It doesn't make sense.

The manic period doesn't last long either. It's the initial phase but then it's downhill from there. It starts inducing anxiety, depressive moods, and so on. Carol (a detransitioner) also has said that she now has a legit panic disorder from using it. She knows it had to have been the T use because she didn't have one before going on it and nothing else in her life had changed to induce it. Women who have been on very small doses of T to help their sex drives (don't know why this is something they would want to do) also report similarly: an initial phase of "holy shit, wow" before things start crashing. I think it's just the initial shock to the system where there is only the "positive" effects but then the damage to the body sets in and makes you feel like too much shit. Also, you know, women aren't wired to have high testosterone levels. I also have no doubt for pooners there is a heavy dose of placebo effect going on as well since the trans identity and the idea of transitioning itself is something they're very attached to and obsessed with.