George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

The real problem is that the Others are behind the Wall. Dany is stuck in Essos. Yet nearly all other POVs and action are in Westeros. And now there are more POVs in Westeros in Dorne that are isolated and separate from where the main action is. The entire conflict really centers around the Iron Throne. We are five books deep and practically no one is thinking about the Others. It's the same exact issue with the HBO show where if they removed the Others from the show it almost solves most of their problems.
He has too many pov chapters. If he had less pov he could be done by now. He should have just put the other pov it in a side book.
The only source of Tolkien subscribing to Candour and writing complimentary annotations in it and underlining the best based passages are a reference by the National Front (this is the source of most references) - which was formed by the union of Chesterton's (publisher of Candour) League of Empire Loyalists, the old British National Party, and the Racial Preservation Society - and that reference comes from Goodson. Goodson himself was the only source

I don't think Goodson ever took any pictures of these issues of Candour with Tolkien's handwriting all over them and showed them, he claimed it. Coincidentally, of course, the passages from Candour that Goodson said Tolkien underlined all referred to usury and financiers aka Jews, and to whites being driven out of Africa inevitably leading to Africa's ruin, aka Boer Goodson's personal ideological hobby horses
Wasn’t there another author who converted to Islam whose family tried to cover up a lot of that sort of thing after his death? I think that’s who the poster was thinking of. I forgot his name though.
 
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There's a semi-plausible fan theory that the unrecognizable horribly burned guy who died wasn't Quentyn but a patsy.
Those kind of theories are always around but they are too far fetched, tbh. It's obvious that it's Quentyn the one who died because he was the one thinking he could handle the dragons due to his Targ blood.
 
Those kind of theories are always around but they are too far fetched, tbh. It's obvious that it's Quentyn the one who died because he was the one thinking he could handle the dragons due to his Targ blood.
It's one of those things which I hope is just a red herring or over-enthusiastic imagination because it undermines the meaning of the story for the sake of a shocking plot twist, but based on a "close reading" of the text it's apparently not impossible. See also "Tyrion is the bastard son of Mad King Aerys".

This is what having too many mystery boxes does to a motherfucker.
 
It's one of those things which I hope is just a red herring or over-enthusiastic imagination because it undermines the meaning of the story for the sake of a shocking plot twist, but based on a "close reading" of the text it's apparently not impossible. See also "Tyrion is the bastard son of Mad King Aerys".

This is what having too many mystery boxes does to a motherfucker.
I think Martin himself has said that people read too much into the plot, and he's also very in-your-face about foreshadowing.

The theory of Tyrion being the son of Aerys is not for us to think he is, but rather for TYWIN to think so. Because, if we thought about it, so he did. Tywin used to be friends with Aerys until he got mad and started to resent him and used Joanna, someone Tywin truly cared for and married for love, to spite him. There is no way Tywin never thought at some point that Aerys did have sex with his wife and got her pregnant, but he can't prove it. He says that to Tyrion himself, that he couldn't prove he wasn't his, so the thought has crossed his mind. His wife was a good noble woman, I doubt Tywin thought he cheated with some commoner, but the most likely scenario for that to happen is that she was forced by the King and kept it quiet out of shame.

Personally, I think Tyrion is Tywin's son, as much as Jaime and Cersei are. He doesn't want to believe it because he's prideful and would never imagine he, the great Tywin Lannister, would be "punished" with a dwarf child. Tywin and his wife were cousins, so if we're talking about the Targs passing down "crazy" genes, this can also could have happened to Tywin and Joanna.
 
But anyway, do the first three books still hold up?
No. For a few reasons. Number one is that people have had time to really digest and analyze the books and have the hype wear off where people can be objective. Two is that people are no longer fawning and praising GRRM as the next Tolkien and he is no longer immune to criticism. Three is that the fandom has grown up and people are older and more mature and nuanced and can see that his writing style is weak and unrealistic and classless. Stuff like "her cunt became the world" or "she shit profuse diarrhea down her thin legs" or whatever creepy sex or shit scene he is writing next for Winds.

Four is that with the HBO show's awful disaster of ending it has caused people to actively start trashing the books out of catharsis. And finally the procrastination has proven that GRRM never really had the series well planned and that his mysteries and plots were never going to pay off and that the novels are empty and hollow. You can tell on rereads that GRRM was never going to finish the series properly as he has no idea what is happening. Hence his characters behaving like spastics and schizophrenics and changing their minds constantly.
It's one of those things which I hope is just a red herring or over-enthusiastic imagination because it undermines the meaning of the story for the sake of a shocking plot twist.
You pretty much described GRRM's entire writing style. Subverting expectation and dumb plot twists over and over. And over and over. Forever. Red herrings and wild impossible to predict plot twists.

Oh Drogo is this killer warrior and wants to take over Westeros! Are you ready for his epic battles? "Let me have my wounds tended to be a woman who I just raped who is a witch who can poison me. Oh and I let her have access to my pregnant wife and her food and drink". Oh wow so he dies of infection and there are no battles. But look!! Dragons! I still have your attention?! Look the dragons.

Okay, so Robb Stark is this hardcore young king who fights in his own battles like Robert Baratheon. He captures Jaime Lannister. He is the next king. Oh wait! He marries a random woman and endangers all of his men by thinking with his penis and not his brain. "Hey everyone I just disrespected the Freys let's go unarmed into their castle". Now his entire family are slaughtered at a wedding. But wait.....there are still dragons and Others and Euron and new cool characters. Still have your attention?

Okay, so here's Ned Stark the detective. He figures out that Joffrey is from Jaime. Wow what a twist! What's he going to do with that information? Tell Stannis? Tell the High Septon? Tell the other Lords? Make sure his family are safe? Wait what??? He tells Cersei and no one else. Is he retarded? But don't worry about that. Because we have this new character Stannis who was the real king all along.

Stannis has powerful magic witches. Royal blood. Glowing sword. Okay so far so good. He's saving the realm. Saving the Wall. Honorable. Wow this guy has a great story so far. "I must burn my daughter". Wait what??

This is why people predicted practically everything in the final seasons and can see where the books are going. Because when you know his patterns it becomes obvious what the next twist will be. But some people are now ultra paranoid about subverting twists and plot changes out of nowhere that they imagine everything is a red herring.
 
Oh Drogo is this killer warrior and wants to take over Westeros! Are you ready for his epic battles? "Let me have my wounds tended to be a woman who I just raped who is a witch who can poison me. Oh and I let her have access to my pregnant wife and her food and drink". Oh wow so he dies of infection and there are no battles. But look!! Dragons! I still have your attention?! Look the dragons.
This is not a red herring, this is a prelude to Dany's storyline.

Dany never got any intention or ambition to conquer Westeros, not only because the thought never crossed her mind (that was Viserys' ambition), but because there was no way for her to actually doing that. You'd need first to put her in a position where she would do it herself.

-She gets married to Drogo, who had no interest on even going to Westeros.
-Robert tries to kill Dany, then Drogo wants to retaliate by invading Westeros (realistic or not, this starts the plot)

Still, Dany is still just his wife, she has no power on her own. That's why Drogo needs to die, and he died from a very common cause of death in the time Martin is referencing. The witch in the plot exists for Dany to become familiar with magic, something she's gonna need to awake the dragons. She's not there just to be the "wicked villain". All the elements leaded Dany to go from being basically a slave to someone with power and on her own. Now it's finally her plot. Same for Jon becoming a man of his own after he's separated from his family and going to the Watch, you need to remove them from their limitations, even drastically if you must. If Jon hadn't gone to the Wall, he would have gone South with Robb and either become his immediate heir in front of everyone or died with him in the Red Wedding. He wouldn't be leading the Watch or the Wildings.

Okay, so Robb Stark is this hardcore young king who fights in his own battles like Robert Baratheon. He captures Jaime Lannister. He is the next king. Oh wait! He marries a random woman and endangers all of his men by thinking with his penis and not his brain. "Hey everyone I just disrespected the Freys let's go unarmed into their castle". Now his entire family are slaughtered at a wedding. But wait.....there are still dragons and Others and Euron and new cool characters. Still have your attention?
Robb Stark is not a main character, he's a plot. His death is meant to set the Northern plot for them to rally around the last Stark, Jon, who we know it's not a bastard. Jon might well be what unites Fire (Targ father) and Ice (Stark mother). He was never a big player, he's someone whose actions only set bigger actions for more important characters. Sansa, Bran, Arya, and Jon are the important characters.
 
While the first three books aren't good, the first one is. I get that we know now that nothing matters, but it's still a good book. The next two are "pretty good" and "ok" respectively, but the magic really does rub off pretty quickly.
 
While the first three books aren't good, the first one is. I get that we know now that nothing matters, but it's still a good book. The next two are "pretty good" and "ok" respectively, but the magic really does rub off pretty quickly.
I always though the problem with Storm of Swords is that there's no satisfying ending, it just sort of ends and fades out into the boredom of the next two books. But I recall most of it was pretty top notch.

I guess one problem with ASOIAF is that by the time you've read the first three, you know Martin's storytelling style and know that he'd have to totally shift it up for the ending and drop the "cool character starts winning and being badass, then does something stupid and is never given a chance to recover because they get cheap-shotted right after." I think the only satisfying ending would be the Others destroying Westeros/the world because everyone was too retarded fighting amongst each other and backstabbing. He could even use it to shill leftist bullshit by using it as an analogy for climate change and everyone being dead by 2030.
 
Three is that the fandom has grown up and people are older and more mature and nuanced and can see that his writing style is weak and unrealistic and classless. Stuff like "her cunt became the world" or "she shit profuse diarrhea down her thin legs" or whatever creepy sex or shit scene he is writing next for Winds.
His sex scenes are nothing to write home about, but the bit about Dany getting liquid diarrhea is because she drank bad water. I've seen it in other books, specifically "As Meat Loves Salt", which has an entire chapter based around men sitting around in the rain and getting dysentery.

Later Tyrion also watches one of the wealthy, morbidly obese Yunkai leaders shit himself to death because he catches the bloody flux (aka dysentery).

Drogo rejecting medical advice is just a look into his "I'm a warrior, I'm immortal" mentality. He was told to leave the salve alone; he ripped it off. He was told not to drink - he did. Mirri Maaz Durr (sic) was justified in what she did, she just didn't think Dany had the balls to go into the fire with her.
 
While the first three books aren't good, the first one is.
Just re-read them last month and IMHO the first one is the weakest of the three while the third one is the absolute pure genrelitdope.

Hate on Martin all you want but by that point he was on top of his game of telling a complexy-plotted multi-faceted story entirely from the personal perspective of multiple disconnected and conflicted characters.
 
I think Martin made the mistake of saying he'd resolve everything in two books, and I think the realisation of how many plot threads he'd need to resolve in a manner which satisfies everyone probably got to him. Shit, he introduced new stuff in A Dance of Dragons whilst there's still shit from books ago which hadn't seen resolutions yet. If he wrote Winds and introduced even more threads, the books would never end. I think he's just plodding along, quasi-retired and waiting to die so the responsibility is no longer on his shoulders to finish the series. I'm fine with that honestly, so long as Sanderson isn't the one to continue it. He's a fucking awful writer, even if he can finish shit and keep it succinct unlike Martin; but I couldn't even finish the first Mistborn book.
That's all on the fat fuck, firs 3 books set up a pretty tight narrative. 4 and 5 bloated it all to high hell adding more and more shit. Don't know if he was just unable to cut off the fat or he felt the need to overexplain fucking everything, but the moment book 4 did not start with "5 years passed" he basically fucked himself over.
Are you joking?
The show's ending was obviously a test run for the ending he had in mind.
Pretty much, would it have been better explained in the books? Probably. But Bran was still going to be your fucking king and "bran the broken is the most interesting story" sounds like something verbatim Martin would have written.
 
Pretty much, would it have been better explained in the books? Probably. But Bran was still going to be your fucking king and "bran the broken is the most interesting story" sounds like something verbatim Martin would have written.
I like hiking but not enough that the most interesting story is the crippled kid has bad dreams then rides his retard male nanny through a thousand miles of forest and mountains
 
There's a semi-plausible fan theory that the unrecognizable horribly burned guy who died wasn't Quentyn but a patsy.
Considering Quentyn's last chapter was literally "that dragon sure seems mad" and that he has no reason to play dead I really doubt it. In general his chapters were just meandering "oh look how awesome I am for subverting the classical hero rescues a princess story" (which was THE pet peeve of post modernists in the 2000's). As if John isn't the most basic bitch hero archetype.

In general the GRRM the type of edgy/post modern author who thinks it is totally subversive to have women (at the better case) not be virgins.
 
I like hiking but not enough that the most interesting story is the crippled kid has bad dreams then rides his retard male nanny through a thousand miles of forest and mountains
It's not even dozens of miles. Because they make it back to the Wall on the show just fine and Bran rules from King's Landing in the end. GRRM loves to write these "go in the opposite direction of the plot" style events. Like Dany being told "you must go east before you go west". Or Bran venturing to the furthest north point beyond the Wall before going all the way to King's Landing down south. Or the entire story focusing on the Iron Throne and not Ice and Fire. It's why the story will never be written fully.

Even worse is that Bran's green seer time travel spice powers seem useless and pointless. What does he really learn? Kill the Others with Valyrian steel or dragonglass? Jon and Sam already know this. Jon is the son of Rhaegar? Howland Reed and others already know this. The Children made the Others? Pretty much everyone suspected this already.
Considering Quentyn's last chapter was literally "that dragon sure seems mad" and that he has no reason to play dead I really doubt it. In general his chapters were just meandering "oh look how awesome I am for subverting the classical hero rescues a princess story" (which was THE pet peeve of post modernists in the 2000's). As if John isn't the most basic bitch hero archetype.
Yes and he has yet another damsel in distress storyline to play out in typical subverting expectations style with the Princess in the Tower chapters. And another prince rescuing the princess storyline with Victarion riding to Dany. So we have more GRRM grim dark edgelord chapters incoming (but not really coming as that would involve writing the books).
In general the GRRM the type of edgy/post modern author who thinks it is totally subversive to have women (at the better case) not be virgins.
Not just rushing to destroy their virginity but also engage in lesbianism, have multiple partners, tons of masturbation, only unprotected sex, using abortifacients, incest, ordering their servants male and female to pleasure them, sex over their father's corpse, it just never ends.
 
I think Martin himself has said that people read too much into the plot, and he's also very in-your-face about foreshadowing.

The theory of Tyrion being the son of Aerys is not for us to think he is, but rather for TYWIN to think so. Because, if we thought about it, so he did. Tywin used to be friends with Aerys until he got mad and started to resent him and used Joanna, someone Tywin truly cared for and married for love, to spite him. There is no way Tywin never thought at some point that Aerys did have sex with his wife and got her pregnant, but he can't prove it. He says that to Tyrion himself, that he couldn't prove he wasn't his, so the thought has crossed his mind. His wife was a good noble woman, I doubt Tywin thought he cheated with some commoner, but the most likely scenario for that to happen is that she was forced by the King and kept it quiet out of shame.

Personally, I think Tyrion is Tywin's son, as much as Jaime and Cersei are. He doesn't want to believe it because he's prideful and would never imagine he, the great Tywin Lannister, would be "punished" with a dwarf child. Tywin and his wife were cousins, so if we're talking about the Targs passing down "crazy" genes, this can also could have happened to Tywin and Joanna.
Tyrion being Tywins son is also pretty much explained by that woman Lannister i believe Tywins sister (sorry it's been a while). She talks to Jaime and tells him Tyrion is more like Tywin than any of his children the similarities are also hinted at with shae and the secret passage way to the whore house in the tower of the hand used by Tywin when he was hand of the king. As Tyrion states 'I am you writ small" it would be a huge kick in the dick to make him anything but Tywins son.
 
Tyrion being Tywins son is also pretty much explained by that woman Lannister i believe Tywins sister (sorry it's been a while). She talks to Jaime and tells him Tyrion is more like Tywin than any of his children the similarities are also hinted at with shae and the secret passage way to the whore house in the tower of the hand used by Tywin when he was hand of the king. As Tyrion states 'I am you writ small" it would be a huge kick in the dick to make him anything but Tywins son.
Genna Lannister.

And yes, that's probably the biggest piece of evidence. Jaime might have the Lannister look, but Tyrion got his wits from Tywin. If he wasn't a dwarf, he'd be his golden boy, not Jaime.
 
There's a great video pitting ASOIAF "theorists" against mostly bullshit fan theories.

There's a good cross-section of ASOIAF theorists and Souls theorists. It's people who try to justify their obsession with claiming of depth despite the writer having absolutely no subtlety. Like legit the fifth book Dany gets told what is going to happen to her and the people she's going to meet. There is zero tension of her fate or that Targ kid being fake.
Genna Lannister.

And yes, that's probably the biggest piece of evidence. Jaime might have the Lannister look, but Tyrion got his wits from Tywin. If he wasn't a dwarf, he'd be his golden boy, not Jaime.
BUT MUH DREAMS OF DRAGONS AND THE DRAGON HAS THREE HEADS!
 
Tyrion being Tywins son is also pretty much explained by that woman Lannister i believe Tywins sister (sorry it's been a while). She talks to Jaime and tells him Tyrion is more like Tywin than any of his children the similarities are also hinted at with shae and the secret passage way to the whore house in the tower of the hand used by Tywin when he was hand of the king. As Tyrion states 'I am you writ small" it would be a huge kick in the dick to make him anything but Tywins son.
Yes. It's implied that Aerys had sex or raped Joanna Lannister in a few chapters as well. That he "took liberties" and was obsessed with Joanna. And that she tried to abort the child not knowing if it was from Aerys or Tywin. This is why Tyrion came out all malformed. It's like GRRM's version of a thalidomide baby or something. She desperately tried to stop being pregnant at one point. But it ended up causing the child to be damaged and it killed her as well when the delivery became violent.
 
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