🐱 How T2 Destroyed the Terminator Franchise

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Terminator 2: Judgment Day remains one of the most popular movies of all time. When it was released in 1991, James Cameron's sequel to The Terminator was the most expensive movie ever made and was easily the highest-grossing film of that year, as well as the most rented movie after its release on VHS and LaserDisc. But its cultural impact lasted much longer than that single year, as Arnold Schwarzenegger immediately became the leading international movie star for more than a decade, and Cameron continued to dominate the box office with his next three blockbusters True Lies, Titanic and Avatar. This cultural behemoth seems like an incredible sequel to celebrate if it weren't for one thing: Terminator 2 is the reason the Terminator franchise failed and could never recover.

Coming out seven years after the first film, Terminator 2 at first seems like a worthy next step in the franchise. With its mix of returning characters and new faces, bigger action set pieces and an upgraded villain thanks to a super slick CGI, the sequel seems to check off all the right boxes. Yet, there are some truly embarrassing changes that not only undermine the effectiveness of the film itself but ultimately derail a franchise before it even had time to get started.

Brutal Horror Film Becomes a Confused Heist Movie in Terminator 2​

The most noticeable and overarching shift between the two films is the wild departure in tone and pacing. 1984's The Terminator is still a paragon of filmmaking, with its tight structure, memorable scenes and perfect performances, from Schwarzenegger's near-silent menace as the T-800 to Linda Hamilton's sincere desperation and courage as Sarah Connor. There's not a second of film to cut, with a deliberate pace that successfully ratchets up the tension all the way to the final scene, as even the interludes of calm are underscored by the T-800's invincible horror that's lurking on the periphery.

Terminator 2 abandons all of that, with a tone that's hard to pin down and a pace that messily flows in starts and stops. Especially with an opening that mirrors the first film -- a pair of time travelers from the future sent to either protect or destroy a person in the present -- Terminator 2sets up a sequel that appears to continue the energy from the first, only to give audiences something entirely different. That's not to say all sequels must stay true to the original, as there are many wonderful examples of follow-ups that undermine an audience's expectations, but the problem with Terminator 2 is that this departure from tone doesn't connect with the franchise as a whole, a change as jarring as it is ineffective.

The plot of Terminator 2 is simple enough to outline in a single sentence, yet its nearly two-and-a-half-hour runtime is loaded with unneeded voice-overs and a plot that can't decide who its main character is or whether it's a heist film, action movie, family drama or buddy comedy. The best element of Terminator 2 is the introduction of the T-1000, played with mild and indifferent creepiness by Robert Patrick, but even with actually exciting scenes with this new villain, he fails to deliver in any important way as his presence isn't maintained and his terror is forgotten once he's off-screen. Perhaps after realizing they created something way too powerful, the only option Cameron had was to just exclude him from the plot, as there are entire chunks of Terminator 2where he isn't in the movie at all.

Schwarzenegger Goes From Assassin to Daddy Way Too Fast in Terminator 2​

It's hard to know whether Schwarzenegger's performance in Terminator 2 is just another casualty of the tone and pacing issues or is actually the cause of them, but either way, his transformation from silent killer to goofy step-father is hard to ignore. According to interviews, Schwarzenegger and Cameron were determined to reform the titular character into one of the good guys, both as a response to Schwarzenegger's success as an action hero since the original Terminator movie was released, as well as an opportunity to take a stand on violence. But once again, due to a confused script and an overly violent set of main characters, the gunfights and explosions actually accomplish exactly the opposite, transforming the upsetting and terrifying violence from The Terminator into meaninglessly cool violence in Terminator 2.

Violence aside, the concept of T-800 turning good isn't even a problem. There are some great examples of villains exploring those better aspects of their humanity, as seen in Star Wars' Darth Vader and Avatar: The Last Airbender's Prince Zuko. The problem is that this entire transformation is done off-screen, mentioned only through dialogue and feels entirely unearned. Especially through a marketing campaign that spoiled the twist before audiences even saw the movie, the T-800 undergoes no metaphysical journey but simply appears in Terminator 2 as a lovable, brainless goofball ready to protect an annoying little boy he was previously hellbent on killing. This would be like if Vader was seen immediately onboard the Millennium Falcon at the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back, learning how to say "We're doomed" from C-3P0.

The T-800 asks those childish questions about pain and tears that lazy filmmakers like to include as a stand-in for an actual investigation into what it means to be human, so by the end of Terminator 2, Schwarzenegger's character hasn't completed some existential breakthrough or any actual growth, but simply remains the same heartless machine who now knows how to say "Hasta la vista, baby" and give out high-fives.

Sarah Conner Regresses to a Powerless Mother Archetype in Terminator 2​

One of the strangest phenomena to emerge in the wake of Terminator 2's release was to continue to define this new version of Sarah Connor as a feminist icon. If someone were to superficially glance at the character, the confusion is understandable: in an era of musclebound, gun-toting male heroes, this '90s version of Connor does seem to be a similarly tough woman warrior. However, the story Terminator 2 tells ultimately strips her of that power, a role she thoroughly earned during her first run-in with the T-800 in the '80s.

The Terminator is a perfect horror movie that uses its unsettling mix of practical gore effects and unpleasant violence to explore modern America through a feminist lens. The film's use of casual sexism, even before Sarah confronts the Terminator, displays a world where the T-800 isn't some new expression of violence but rather a more extreme version of the misogyny that already exists. Even the men who are there to protect her are threatening and dismissive toward her, hardly the heroes anyone would expect. By the end of The Terminator, all the men die, failing to protect her and allowing Sarah to learn that she can save herself.

The Sarah that emerges in Terminator 2 is entirely removed from the strong woman that ended the original film. Yes, she's ripped, shoots guns and even does pull-ups, but the story Cameron tells this time is overwhelmingly regressive. In one of her rare moments of action after teaming up with her son and the recoded T-800, she is unable to go through with the plan and breaks down sobbing while consoled and directed by her teenage son. And at the very end, taking place in a factory that is eerily similar to the ending location of the first film, Sarah Connor is powerless against the T-1000 and must be saved by the men in her life while all she can do is meekly protect her son.

Terminator 2 Left the Franchise Trapped With Nowhere to Go​

Terminator 2 is a confused movie, supposedly a condemnation of male violence that makes that very thing cool and fun, and supposedly about the creative power of women with a main female character who is powerless on her own requiring an entourage of men to save her. But since Terminator 2 was wildly successful, the trajectory of the franchise was redirected to its themes and characters, making all the subsequent Terminatormovies judged on those grounds. Both Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and Terminator Salvationexplore these similar ideas of machines with human feelings and underprepared heroes with a nuance absent from Terminator 2, yet both films are overly criticized and underappreciated simply because they are not Terminator 2.

People often have fond memories of the movies they watched as kids, and Terminator 2 certainly holds a special place in the minds of gen x and millennials, those born amidst the burgeoning heyday of home video, as well as the dawn of a new era of CGI-focused special effects. But in the 30 years since its release -- especially after the MCU, Star Wars and other franchises brought the concept of worldbuilding to the mainstream as a legitimate way to tell a story -- Terminator 2 now feels truly tragic when juxtaposed against everything that worked in The Terminator.
 
I don't know enough of the franchise to know if this is in purpose, but Sarah's an allegoric figure of the Virgin Mary, at least in T1. She's announced she will be the mother of the future saviour and she accepts her role. Of course, the story is more mundane, but the "angel" that comes to announce her fate is the man who also gets her pregnant, making her pregnancy a bit supernatural indeed because it comes from the source that sent the "angel" (the future). Eventually, John meets his father in the "future" as well, as Jesus reunites with his father in Heaven.
Yeah, he's part angel and part John the Baptist, the prophet who comes to pave the way for the savior. There's some John the Baptist in the T-800, too. I'd say not "on purpose" in the sense that Cameron isn't making a Christian allegory first and foremost, but sure, the series is full of that kind of thing. Whether you're a believer or not it's all powerful symbolism that's ubiquitous in our culture -- the prophecy of a savior, the virgin mother, death and resurrection, martyrdom. Salvation had a ton of different endings in development, but they're all variations on the theme of the savior's death and rebirth.
 
The T-800 asks those childish questions about pain and tears that lazy filmmakers like to include as a stand-in for an actual investigation
James Cameron and many many others put a lot of care into perfecting Terminator 2. From acting to stunts to cinematography to writing to foley art to even early cgi. Everyone was just firing on all cylinders at you can definitely tell. Feel free to dislike the movie but to call anyone involved lazy I think is a bit disingenuous. I truly have to question if they really feel any of this about the movie or they're just trying to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
 
I've posted it before, but Michael French of Retroblasting put out a video lamenting exactly the kind of mentality that this soy-filled creature exhibits.

It's perfectly fine - and in light of some of the sequels and reboots we've seen in recent years, actually preferable - for stories to end. Not just the Terminator, but the Alien and Predator franchises have suffered from trying to wring out more from stories that had reached their natural endpoint.
 
T2 had sufficient character arcs that couldn't really be improved upon? That's oppression right there.
 
SJW; someone who thinks Sarah Connor in T2 was helpless.

Someone who says T2 left the series had nowhere to go after the last good movie in it.

"Meekly protects her son" Yea, because Sarah totally wasn't confronting the T1000 on her own with a shotgun and doing it with the same emotion the Slayer has when pulling an imp apart like a chinese pork dish.
 
Are the leftoid faggots still crying because the last Terminator with the tranny was shit and now, they are trying to mind fuck people into believing the original movies were the bad ones?

Fuck off leftist faggots.

Terminator and Terminator 2 were some of the best movies ever made. Terminator 3 was garbage. Terminator Salvation was mediocre. Genisys was shit and so was the last movie they made. The last one was so bad they said there probably won't be any more. Thank God. I never watched Genisys or the last movie. I don't need to I could tell they were shit. I have Terminator 1 and 2 on BluRay and that's how I remember Terminator.

I did watch Salvation and like I said it was mediocre, not terrible but not great. I watched T3 and it's just absolute trash.

But I have seen people say Terminator 1 was better than T2. Some say T2 was better than Terminator 1. Like those people who say Star Wars A New Hope is the only good Star Wars movie or the Return of The Jedi was terrible. T1 and T2 are equal IMO.
 
Terminator 3 was garbage.
You know I fully concede that Terminator 3 was a disappointment with James Cameron gone, but there's a lot of aspects I still really liked about the script and general fun of it. And I don't care if I'm the only schmuck that acts as an apologist to it.

1. The general set up was good. First off Kristanna Loken was a total babe and I liked the idea that Skynet had finally figured out how to make a killing machine that had weapons from the get go. I liked that Arnold was once again an asshole and John Connor wasn't being reunited with his surrogate dad.

And onto John Connor, I thought it was a good set up to have our protagonist be a total down on his luck loser. It's an interesting philosophical question, what if a potential great hero of humanity just wound up being a junkie sap, that there might not be fate but instead life is just built on luck and human willpower. I wish this had been explored more, I wish John had time to lament how he felt he was robbed from the savior role he was repeatedly told he'd end up having.

2. The action was good. Definitely not the best, I'm guessing the 2000s CGI didn’t hold up well but it was still full of big action spectacle. The highway chase scene was just fun to watch. And it's the only film in the franchise (I bothered to see) where you just get the mindless violence of two Terminators fighting. It holds a special place in my mind because when Arnold ran as governor the Democrats tried to smear him as sexist for laughing about smashing Loken's head into a toilet.

3. I LOVE THE RV SCENE. Maybe it's just me but I still think think about this silly scene. From a sequel hardly anyone cares about. Arnold rescues John Connor and Claire Danes and then he takes them on an RV trip to Mexico. He even sets up lawnchairs for them so they can sit and witness the Nuclear Holocaust. They're horrified by it and of course make the poor old T-800 do the suicide mission.

No other way to put it this scene just speaks to me. There's that almost romantic egoist survivor fantasy of escaping Sodom & Gomorra. The fantasy of lucking out and being smarter than all the other poor chumps left to perish. There's nothing you can do to stop it so you just kick back and watch the fireworks. I just really like that the T-800 seriously gives no fucks beyond doing his mission.

4. The twist ending. Yeah I liked it when the bombs drop. That Claire Dane's military Dad just dupes our protagonists to be utilitarians and save themselves by getting into a fallout shelter. How many times can you stop Judgement Day? It had to happen eventually in the story.

And finally how I a backseat director could have improved the film. As I was writing this post I wanted to see the RV scene and unfortunately this Youtube video misses my favorite part of Arnold setting up the Lawn Chairs. But a flaw that does stick out that I couldn't see as a kid is that Nick Stahl and Claire Danes perform poorly in it.

The director should have reshot it until both actors gave better performances. But most importantly the story's biggest failure is that John Connor never rises up to be a hero. What the film should have done is have Loken defeat the T-800 after a long dumb battle. John should have then used Pipe Bombs (like Kyle Reese did in the first movie) and triumphantly defeated the T-X. This would have allowed John Connor to finally rise up be the messiah figure he was destined to be. The T-X also could have wound up giving John the cool scars he was shown to have in the prior films.

So enough sperging. Terminator 1 is a classic. Terminator 2 is a masterpiece in action filmmaking. Terminator 3 was a fun dumb movie. Terminator Salvation and Genisys are garbage for being PG-13. Terminator: Dark Fate was the stupidest piece of shit that they could have possibly made.
 
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I just imagine the author in this as some autistic kid with finger paints drawing a massive turd on a canvas and then turning around and pointing at the Mona Lisa and screeching "it's dookie, mine better!"
 
You know I fully concede that Terminator 3 was a disappointment with James Cameron gone, but there's a lot of aspects I still really liked about the script and general fun of it. And I don't care if I'm the only schmuck that acts as an apologist to it.
good to see some T3 fans....of course not as good as T1 or T2 but it was a decent enough follow up that tried to move the story forward
T3 has some interesting elements and its better than all the other sequels, but that is a very, very low bar. It certainly tries to move the story forward, sure, but the only way to do that is to ruin the theme of T2 about people being the masters of their fate and the uncertainty of the coming years. It strips away all the well earned optimism and hope for a brighter future and reduces everything to an entirely determinist world, mechanical and inhuman. I wish they had gone with the alternative ending for T2, or a version of it, but then we wouldn't have had the opening for sequels now would we? Maybe its a little corny, but I like it and to me this ending (or something like it) is canon.
 
Maybe not everything needs to be an endlessly continuing franchise.
Maybe everything should have an end point.
Maybe you soyboy faggots should read another book/watch another movie/get a fucking life instead of beating everything into the ground.
If Hollywood finishes something they cut off an easy cash stream and they'll never do that.
Then make a new fucking sci-fi story. I know it's a hard concept to grasp, considering you lack any sort of creativity or imagination, but even a monkey has the power to think.
Telling Current Year Hollywood to take on risk is verboten.
T2 didn't destroy a franchise, it ended a story. If writers these days knew how to end a story, we'd get more original stories.
Movie stories stopped finishing when video games started to look really good - I noticed that trend started in the late 00s and it won't stop while cinema has to compete with that juggernaut.
 
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This article is shit and Robert Patrick was great as the T-1000
Going back and watching some of Patrick's stuff as the T-1000 is creepy. I remember an interview, where he talked about modeling the T-1000's mannerisms and body language off that of various predatory animals. And it worked really well.
 
This article is shit and Robert Patrick was great as the T-1000
Going back and watching some of Patrick's stuff as the T-1000 is creepy. I remember an interview, where he talked about modeling the T-1000's mannerisms and body language off that of various predatory animals. And it worked really well.
Yeah, the behind the scene and making of features kind of went into depth on how the T-1000 was supposed to be just as menacing at the T-800 but in a leaner, sleeker way. Like if 'Arnie was a Tank, Patrick was supposed to be a sportscar' was the way they described it. Patrick completes nails it, he's got this really graceful and cold motion like a massive predatory snake or lizard, its more fluid than Arnold's movements but just as directed and efficient.
 

The director should have reshot it until both actors gave better performances. But most importantly the story's biggest failure is that John Connor never rises up to be a hero. What the film should have done is have Loken defeat the T-800 after a long dumb battle. John should have then used Pipe Bombs (like Kyle Reese did in the first movie) and triumphantly defeated the T-X. This would have allowed John Connor to finally rise up be the messiah figure he was destined to be. The T-X also could have wound up giving John the cool scars he was shown to have in the prior films.

So enough sperging. Terminator 1 is a classic. Terminator 2 is a masterpiece in action filmmaking. Terminator 3 was a fun dumb movie. Terminator Salvation and Genisys are garbage for being PG-13. Terminator: Dark Fate was the stupidest piece of shit that they could have possibly made.
Jeez. I forgot how bad it was. Nick Stahl is almost always a god-awful actor, except in Sin City, but Claire Danes has done some excellent shit like her acting in Brokedown Palace and Rome and Juliette.

Different casting, particularly with Stahl, would have improved that movie immensely.

Sam Worthington was the only redemptive part of Salvation, but again, it could have been a good enough movie if Christian Bale hadn't been cast. I don't get why people like that guy. Tom Hardy would have been a good choice.
 
T1000 is still the best bad guy in the franchise, after bad Arnold in pt 1.

T3's chick was a neat idea but not at all menacing. Salvation, nothing really there either. Genisys? 8) and don't get me started on Dark Fate...that goofy ass mexican was hilarious moreso than terrifying.
 
James Cameron and many many others put a lot of care into perfecting Terminator 2. From acting to stunts to cinematography to writing to foley art to even early cgi. Everyone was just firing on all cylinders at you can definitely tell. Feel free to dislike the movie but to call anyone involved lazy I think is a bit disingenuous. I truly have to question if they really feel any of this about the movie or they're just trying to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
iirc wasn't his big trick for the special effect of the T-1000 being all "lol I'm you" was "hire actors with twins" (including Linda Hamilton)?
 
Going back and watching some of Patrick's stuff as the T-1000 is creepy. I remember an interview, where he talked about modeling the T-1000's mannerisms and body language off that of various predatory animals. And it worked really well.
The T1000 is probably one of the best movie villains of all time. Perfectly captures all the terror of the T800 in the first movie while adding some more with a unique flavor.
 
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