Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[X Prime]

Three goddesses? Heh, say hello to the goddess Hylia.
The goddess Hylia? Heh, say hello to the Zonai.
The Zonai? Heh, say hello to ...

People really need to understand that this sums up the way Japanese consumers think by and large.

From what I have observed over the years and heard from some Japanese natives themselves, the Japanese side of virtually everything are vapid consumers to the nth degree. They do not have any particular reverence for lore, tonal consistency, and so on. It's literally consoom product, get excited for next product.

I am struggling to explain what I mean. Another way to put it is that they tend to not get attached on a longterm basis. Media is generally disposable, hence why they tend to not contribute much to preservation projects even if it's media from their own culture.

 

[el bandito loco]

People really need to understand that this sums up the way Japanese consumers think by and large.

From what I have observed over the years and heard from some Japanese natives themselves, the Japanese side of virtually everything are vapid consumers to the nth degree. They do not have any particular reverence for lore, tonal consistency, and so on. It's literally consoom product, get excited for next product.

I am struggling to explain what I mean. Another way to put it is that they tend to not get attached on a longterm basis. Media is generally disposable, hence why they tend to not contribute much to preservation projects even if it's media from their own culture.

They're a lot better at not taking media so fucking seriously and having to have everything connect or be cohesive and more generally open to varying interpretations of the same shit. they're a lot better at looking at things as 'this entry in a series is it's own thing although it's related by franchise'. It's probably partially because of the consumer of everything mentality as you said, but it's not even that deep. they're just fine with differing versions of shit coexisting in a way westerners are more autistic about.

a good example is last year they got that new Godzilla movie, which was a drama. high reviews considered an instant modern classic and a legitimately good movie. the japanese loved it. this year, they got the american godzilla vs king kong 2. it's retarded. loud dumb action movie that's complete nonsense. the japanese loved it. we got reviews here of people comparing it to last years actual serious movie poorly complaining about how much better it was than this, and their reviews there were like "godzilla - 1 was brilliant, smart movie about japan, this movie is a dumb movie made by an idiot punch punch kick kick godzilla vs kong it is amazing! great summer fight movie take your kids best movie of the year so far!". my point being westerners take media more seriously whereas they just accept it all for what it is. you might have something good, you might have something terrible. they like both for what they are.

with Zelda (and most other Japanese franchises for that matter) 90% of people who really give a shit about lore and connections are westerners, the japanese target audience doesn't give a flying fuck they just want every game to be good because they tend to see them as individual things not as pieces of a whole story-wise.

 

[Mega Black]

Personally I don't even mind the concept of open world Zelda sticking around, I just don't want THIS style of open world Zelda. The worlds in Tears and Breath, their lore, their quest design, it is all sub-standard and BORING.

If you took Majora's setting and made it open world, a fully explorable Termina with a more classic-aligned art style and tone, I'd be all over that shit.

But modern Nintendo seems to want to make Zelda as bland and interesting as possible.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

Another way to put it is that they tend to not get attached on a longterm basis.

I wouldn't really call myself attached, but it's still foolish to throw away the aesthetics like this.

with Zelda (and most other Japanese franchises for that matter) 90% of people who really give a shit about lore and connections are westerners, the japanese target audience doesn't give a flying fuck they just want every game to be good because they tend to see them as individual things not as pieces of a whole story-wise.

Considering Pikmin 4, that makes sense, but the main issue with these games is they just aren't as good as was expected. Really, it's fine for a Zelda game to diverge wildly like this; I just don't want it to keep happening, because it's inferior to what came before.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Open world Zelda is kind of nice as most open world games are. But they really need more layering of progression OR a different kind of storyline if they want to make it a real Zelda game.

And stop giving us fast travel immediately why the fuck would you ride a horse ever you can just portal to a tower and shit yourself into the sky and fly bro.

 

[LightDragonman1]

Man, all this back and forth over lore and what makes a real Zelda game and what direction it should take makes me realize how fickle the fanbase for this series can be. I like both the old and the new styles, but a combination of the two would be interesting to see.

What exactly makes a “True Zelda game” will inevitably vary from fan to fan. Some say it’s the story and characters. Others will say it’s the exploration and sense of adventure. Yet still others will say it’s the puzzles and dungeons. As a result, I don’t really think there’s a true definition as to what it is, and why I don’t try and discredit any of the mainline entries, linear or open-world.

I admit that I prefer the style of BOTW and TOTK, but I’d be lying if a return to the older story didn’t seem appealing at times. Just that for me, if they do, they shouldn’t forgo the freedom and experimentation of the open-world titles in favor of yet more “find item in dungeon, do exactly the steps required to clear it” formula. I’d prefer it to be more freeform.

I also still don’t understand the obsession with the timeline and overarching mythos of this series, when it doesn’t seem like something the devs have put all that much serious consideration into.

From what I have observed over the years and heard from some Japanese natives themselves, the Japanese side of virtually everything are vapid consumers to the nth degree. They do not have any particular reverence for lore, tonal consistency, and so on. It's literally consoom product, get excited for next product.

Not sure if you are insinuating that you mean that us Westerners are far more sophisticated and intelligent than them (that couldn’t be farther from the truth, same as vice-versa), but it could also mean that they simply don’t take things as seriously should the end result still turn out entertaining on its own merits.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

I admit that I prefer the style of BOTW and TOTK, but I’d be lying if a return to the older story didn’t seem appealing at times. Just that for me, if they do, they shouldn’t forgo the freedom and experimentation of the open-world titles in favor of yet more “find item in dungeon, do exactly the steps required to clear it” formula. I’d prefer it to be more freeform.

Well they can't hide items in the overworld and let the player enter a dungeon he can't solve. Backtracking is reserved for Metroid, apparently. The puzzles in Tears of the Kingdom can be solved in many ways, enabled by giving the player everything of any importance at the beginning, and by making every single puzzle trivial. That's not great. I'd rather have a good puzzle I can solve exactly once than a shitty puzzle that feels like I broke it when I got past it.

 

[LightDragonman1]

I guess we have different preferences then.

I prefer the imsim approach of giving the player all the tools needed, but no specific direction required to complete the task, which thusly allows for the player to come up with unorthodox solutions. This I find to be more engaging than having to do just one specific method in order to solve the task, as I find that limiting and also rather tedious when the solution is hard to figure out.

Though making the puzzles more challenging while still allowing for freeform solutions is much more ideal, I agree.

 

[Betonhaus]

The opportunity to let players try different ways to solve a puzzle is refreshing compared to when you would see something important that you can't even touch until you get a late game tool to reach it. But I'm sure eventually it will be nice to try more linear puzzles for a while

 

[starborn427614]

The opportunity to let players try different ways to solve a puzzle is refreshing compared to when you would see something important that you can't even touch until you get a late game tool to reach it. But I'm sure eventually it will be nice to try more linear puzzles for a while

There is definitely a level of satisfaction in having to hunt for small keys and correctly navigating a linear dungeon.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I don't really have a problem with that approach in and of itself, my problem, and this applies to much of the rest of BotW, is that it's so far removed from the classic Zelda formula. I'm not saying it wouldn't have a place in the series, but maybe there is a compromise. I don't know how that would look like, though. Maybe keep the shrines as optional side content and flesh out the Divine Bessts into proper Zelda-esque dungeons? I'm not sure how that would mesh.

I think what I'd like to see is a Zelda game with the scale and exploration of BotW, but one that works more like a metroidvania. Other games were sort of like that, like, you couldn't access certain areas in OoT until you got your hands on the grappling hook. I think I would prefer this, only with a much larger scope. You don't have to be able to do everything all the time, there is a certain reward in finding something you can't access, mark it on your map, then come back for it later. I haven't played it in a while, but I believe BotW even sort of does this.

Tl;Dr, I think the perfect-ish Zelda game would be a middle ground between OoT and BotW, which seems to be what a lot of people here are saying.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

Edit: Fucked up my formatting, here we go again.

Double post, but I also wanted to say something about timeline shenanigans.

Now, I never was a lorefag. I always thought that Zelda games had little connection (direct sequels like AoL and MM notwithstanding), and they never needed any. However, I was on board when they released the official timeline. Hell, I was even impressed that they managed to connect a bunch of games that had very little connection. And then I was irritated when they completely dumped it only one game later. I'm not angry that the timeline has basically become invalid/inconsequential, but I'm a bit upset at the lack of commitment on Nintendo's part. I mean, what was even the point?

I think what X Prime said would explain a lot, they probably just wanted to throw the round-eye lorefags a bone and then decidedtodo their own thing again. Which makes sense, it's Nintendo. And Nintendo doesn't give a fuck.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

I'm just going to say it

None of this timeline lorefag bullshit popped up until Anouma got full control.

 

[McMitch]

A Zelda game with the overworld style of the Switch games with a dungeon style of Twilight Princess would be the right direction to go. Bring back the Spinner, that thing kicked ass.

 

[RybenZ999]

I thought the explanation was he never got to teach his children sword techniques?

Apparently it's also because he lamented the fact that nobody in his timeline knows about his achievments. I always thought that explanation was kind of odd because I've always pictured Link being the altruistic type who doesn't care about fame or glory.

 

[Betonhaus]

Apparently it's also because he lamented the fact that nobody in his timeline knows about his achievments. I always thought that explanation was kind of odd because I've always pictured Link being the altruistic type who doesn't care about fame or glory.

I mean it is called "The Legend of Zelda" and not "The Legend of Link" so he probably got tired of his achievements being seen as the princess solving things with her wisdom.

 

[Man at Arms]

T

Nah, because nobody have bothered to cut down their forest and chased them to the badlands of Hyrule.

They did that to each other many many times before white man even set foot in America.
Learn real history and stop regurgitating complete bullshit

 

[Your Girlfriend's Dad]

I just think it's fucking wild that the divine beasts have just fucking disappeared in TOTK.

Like, no explanation. They barely even mention the events of the first game. The general vibe is "fuck off, we're doing this now."

 

[Van Darkholme]

I'm not much of a 3D Zelda fan and wouldn't mind if they go back to 2D at some point. Maybe something not 100% linear like A Link Between Worlds would be nice.

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I just think it's fucking wild that the divine beasts have just fucking disappeared in TOTK.

Like, no explanation. They barely even mention the events of the first game. The general vibe is "fuck off, we're doing this now."

That's exactly what's driving me nuts, the inconsistency. I know Nintendo doesn't care, but this feels like a deliberate middle finger.