NeoGAF & ResetERA - The Hilarious N̶e̶v̶e̶r̶e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ Splintering "Gaming" Forum Circus

Dude, you're being insensitive if you don't think the Don't Tread On Me flags aren't only used to further a very specific White agenda.
Oh geez... please fuck right off.

Even the guy calling it an "anti-federalist" flag, while being far more reasonable than most in that thread, is wrong. It originated as an anti-British/anti-imperialist flag.

"a very specific white agenda"

So if it's a "very specific" agenda, I'm sure you can actually specify what that agenda is supposed to be, right? And they try to impugn others for "dogwhistles."

I bet "live free or die" promotes "a very specific white agenda" too.
 
Lime made a thread mocking the new Mass Effect's horrible animations. Then the usual garbage outlets (Kotaku, Polygon, etcetera) ran a story about one of the animators (a sacred woman) getting mean messages by straight white men and now he's trying to disown his thread. :story:


The temporary mass Mass Effect shitting even got hypeman Shinobi602 to call the forum a hive and leave (again).

In response to Pewdiepie and JonTron revealing themselves as literal Nazis that want to kill every minority, Lime also created a thread of approved Youtube video game commentators. Since Lime doesn't actually care and he's thinned out the potential of harmful opinions to the hive, he struggles to make a list that doesn't include people talking about unrelated stuff.
There's a lot of focus and discussion about all these toxic and hateful personalities in gaming media, so I thought we might as flip the issue and actually talk about all the many amazing people in gaming media and culture who do critical and inspirational work that helps illuminate what video games are, what they can be, and how they can become better. Writers, bloggers, Youtubers, streamers, conference organizers, activists, etc. Feel free to post your suggestions.

Here are some of my random picks and don't forget to support if you like their work:

[URL='https://archive.is/o/ZTH3O/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTNi7SPnNA']Latoya Peterson's 5-part series on Girl Gamers for Fusion Magazine
- a range of voices across the culture, industry, and academia are represented with some great tidbits and differing perspectives across players, developers, representation, history of women in games, etc. A must watch.

Kim Justice - makes some amazing in-depth historical perspectives on classic games, developers, and hardware.

Gita Jackson - writes for Kotaku with an emphasis on fashion in games, player-creativity, and a wide swath of interesting topics related to games.

Shareef Jackson - Gaming Looks Good. A close-textual analysis of diversity across gender and race in popular games. A great, well-paced, and warm style of presentation.

Heather Alexandra - writes for Kotaku - I'll just let Critical Distance describe her work when she was granted the CD award for 2017: "She has expressed her informed views on games in a wide variety of media forms, from blog posts to feature articles to videos and podcasts. Heather’s skill, insight, and voice have contributed immensely to the field, and it’s a delight to be able to honor her work here." (see also John Kowalski's post)

I Need Diverse Games & Fresh out of Tokens (podcast) - organization that signalboosts progressive developers, writers, voices, etc. and who do conference talks and consultancy. Headed by Tanya DePass who also has written some great articles on race, fantasy, history, and Blackness.

SpawnOnMe (podcast) - podcast with Cicero Holmes, Shareef Jackson, and Kahlief Adams doing weekly discussion of games and special guests from the industry to talk about games, development, personal interests. Great dynamic, entertaining and refreshing to listen to, and they also do charity streams here and there.

Not Your Mama's Gamer (and their podcast) - A collaborative of women across various professions who use their spare time to write weekly if not daily thoughts on an incredible wide range of topics within gaming with an emphasis on academic analysis. They also do a weekly podcast where they joke, chat, and analyze various phenomena within gaming. You might not get a more highly educated and academic group of people talking about games in mainstream form than this.

Justin Clark - writer & reviewer for Slant and formerly Gamespot and Paste Magazine. Clark usually does reviews and I personally am a big fan of his style of writing.

Waypoint - speaks for itself and it's well-known enough here on GAF. Austin Walker & co. doing fun and interesting things.

Simply Undrea - Great, positive, and entertaining Twitch and Youtube streamer. Advocate for AnyKeyOrg.

Errant Signal / Chris Franklin / Campster - Video long form analysis of recent games and the occassional topic throughout many years now. Great thoughts and reflections and food for thought.

Evan Narcisse from ios9 formerly of Kotaku fame - Mostly focuses on comics and TV shows these days with some stuff on games, but his writing and perspective is nevertheless absolutely essential.

Robert Yang - academic, design teacher, and developer of homo-erotic games. Entertaining to listen to in presentations, writes technical and design-focused articles on his blog. All of his games are banned on Twitch and Steam :O

Paolo Perdecini - activist game designer for MolleIndustria. Interesting smaller games addressing the many contemporary political issues we are facing.

Unconsoleable (podcast) - nice little podcast that deals with mobile games and the various topics surrounding them.

Please feel free to share whoever or whatever you think is appropriate or relevant.[/url]

Another member took the opportunity to shill for his favorite gaming group Easy Allies. Since this is Neogaf, you're required to have a post like this.


In case you're wondering if the autism about JonTron, Colin Moriarty and Pewdiepie has subsided, think again (this is what the guy immediately calling him an antisemite looks like). Even Boogie got more mud slung at him.

Amir0x came back from his ban and is at peak mental unhingement. Someone should make a lolcow thread for him.

More review autism.

Gaf beats Amy Schumer to blaming all poor reviews of her latest Netflix special on disgruntled men.
This article could be helpful. Online reviews are disproportionately written by men, who go out of their way to give bad remarks to content for women.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...imed-at-women/

Maybe not since Schumer isn't exclusively aimed at women.
I'm sure there's a reddit post somewhere that explains this.

Even the dog-shittiest of dogshit on Netflix almost never racks up those kind of numbers.
You don't get that many 1-star reviews if people weren't out to get you. Just a shame because she's boring as hell anyway and they're diluting the real 1-star reviews.
Misogynists are always gonna misogynist.

However,

"I like her show, but I couldn't get past the first 15 minutes of this. It just wasn't very funny or witty."

I found this to be a 100% true for me also so maybe some people just didn't like it at all. Then again I'm not a usual fan.

Maybe it gets better later but it was pretty flat so it wouldn't shock me if it was just a big misfire.
I personally know someone who didn't watch the special, but logged onto Netflix and gave the special 1 star, just out of spite for Amy Schumer. I'm guessing that they got the idea from some internet forum, so I'm thinking the majority of these reviews are completely unfair.

In fact, I think I'll give it 5 stars later tonight, to at least balance out the 1 person that I know, personally.
This is also a discussion on people attacking review scores of things they don't like. It's a fair question: Are misogynists sabotaging content created by women?
Except there is absolutely no other current female comic who is as known as her or as hated by the sexist GamerGate/alt-right/Trump supporter segement of the internet.

There's no one to compare Schumer to. She is a target of the anti-women alt-right.
That's just from the first page.

One gushes about a Zelda town for its SJWness. Another believes it literally kills trannies.
Thread: Gerudo Town and its diversity in age, body type, and skin is great (BOTW SPOILERS)
Okay so I love Gerudo Town. I love everything about it, from the aesthetic, to the many hidden secrets, to the characters and their fictional culture.

2017031003550900-f1c1x0kst.jpg


They took the concept of a desert Amazon tribe of only women and put a surprising amount of thought and attention to detail in how such a society might work. You talk to merchants who lament that their jobs in the city keep them from their husbands who are not allowed within. You can discover the classroom where Gerudo learn about the outside world and how to interact (and what to beware of) with men. I could go on and on about the daily lives of these people.

2017031201252800-f1c17tjp7.jpg


The leader Riju is also an especially memorable character. The concept a child ruler forced into a position of leadership at a time of calamity is approached with the seriousness (and sadness) it deserves. She has a strange sort of regal dignity blended with childish naivete that's best encapsulated in the opening pages of her diary:

Buliara told me today that Mother has passed on and gone to a better place... She said that my mother's death means I am now the chief of the Gerudo people. I wish she'd stayed here, though. I don't see how it can be a better place with us apart.

It is incredibly gratifying to witness Riju step up into her role when she helps you take down Vah Naboris. Afterwards, when it was clear that she'd won the respect and admiration of her worried people, I felt really happy for her.

2017031120143900-f1c1ydjuo.jpg


One thing that struck me in particular is that the young Riju is only one example of a remarkable diversity in age and body types among the all female Gerudo. A insular tribe of Amazons would seem like a natural excuse for homogeneity, but Nintendo went out of their way to show that the average Gerudo on the street is not the statuesque muscle bound warrior woman you find among the guards.

2mhe6MC.jpg


There is also diversity in skin color. Some of the Gerudo are lighter than most, and some (like this child) are darker.

8OpEKDw.jpg


All of this of course contributes to the verisimilitude of the city, making it feel lively and lived in and cosmopolitan. This is something they very easily could have gotten wrong, especially in a colorful fantasy setting. I think it's worth noting here that they did it right, and why the game is better for it.

2017031605440900-f1c1xjjsc.jpg


My favorite area and town in Zelda bar none. I think the developers know they nailed it too.

2017031605531100-f1c1g8jcq.jpg


Yes.
Brown is very diverse.
Thread: (SPOILERS) About that ONE Gerudo Quest in Breath of the Wild
Some journalists have been writing articles for the past few days about that one Gerudo quest in Breath of the Wild where Link has to cross-dress to enter the town and the trans subtext implication it has on the game, from the quest to seek out the man who entered the village and get to clothes to cross-dress Link to the hidden male clothes shop in the city.

http://letsplayvideogames.com/2017/0...s-gerudo-town/

Now that the game is out, and I’ve had time to reflect on this plot thread and my relation to it as a trans woman, I’m left feeling conflicted. On the one hand, this is a AAA video game that canonically has people who were designated male at birth living comfortably within the confines of an all-female city, but equally these characters are repeatedly misgendered as part of the progression path to quest completion. Sure, Link likes being told they are a pretty girl, but Link also reels back in horror when a beard is momentarily exposed from underneath the veil of a woman using female pronouns.

So, let’s dig into the highs and lows of how Breath of the Wild handles its all-female city, starting with the core quest line before expanding into additional info hinting at further gender nonconforming characters.
http://kotaku.com/despite-nintendos-...-ha-1793269690

Here’s the moment: looking for help in the desert, Link seeks to enter Gerudo Town to speak with their ruler. Gerudo Town is off limits to men. Hearing that a man did manage to sneak in, he seeks them out until he finds a woman named Vilia who turns out to be the individual who snuck into the city. They offer to make Link a set of Gerudo clothing and fawn over his new look as Link bashfully wears this new outfit. Link stands in a cropped top and veil, blushing feverishly as Vilia complements his looks. As the wind picks up, it blows Vilia’s veil off to reveal a full beard that Link responds to with visible shock.

This scene relies on tired tropes. Vilia is a fey dandy character, an expression of queerness as weak and wispy. There’s a fetishizing quality at play, a reveling in the chance to objectify Link. Vilia becomes a punchline as her features are revealed. The bearded lady. The freak in the cage.

For those who have played the game, what's your opinion on this? Was it poorly handled by Nintendo?
Two bonuses here. The OP for the second thread immediately chimed in on the first saying his "girl"friend loved it. His first quote comes from Josh Dale.
Evilore is so on top of the ad problem that even his moderators have to complain in the thread. :stress:

He did grow half a testicle by removing Pashmilla's ability to make new threads ... but only because of his self-promotion rules. Pash left us with some great threads.

Thread: Entitlement and the "straight male gamer"
I have to stop doing this

By the way, so people stop getting offended, "straight male gamers" doesn't refer to ALL straight male gamers. It specifically refers to gamergate-style pissbabies. Carry on.

The “Gamergate” controversy of 2014 was a stark reminder of something the gaming community would rather have forgotten: it is, in many ways, saturated with bigotry.

But while Gamergate served primarily to expose the rotten layers of hatred lurking under the surface, it revealed something else as well: that many of the “stereotypical” gaming demographic - that is, straight, white, cisgender men - carry with them an astounding sense of entitlement. In some ways, this is hardly surprising. They are the epitome of privilege, suffering neither racism, misogyny, homophobia, nor transphobia. For centuries they have shaped the world to cater to them, thus elevating themselves in the process; and the gaming industry has certainly been no different. For decades it has focused almost exclusively on the straight white man as its target consumer, and in the early days, not without reason. But as gaming has grown, demographics have changed; today, women make up almost 50% of gamers. Despite this, any attempt to appeal to them, or people of colour, or members of the LGBT community, is met with derision, anger, and sometimes even hatred by the “core” straight white male demographic.

“It’s pandering” is one of the common arguments heard. Any protagonist who is not a white, heterosexual man is seen as “pandering” to “feminazis” and “SJWs” (“social justice warriors”, a derogatory term used to criticise those who are perceived as too outspoken about women and minority rights). Horizon: Zero Dawn was the target of a boycott campaign on GameFAQs, in part because its protagonist was a woman - more importantly, a woman not designed with the male gaze in mind. And yet a white, heterosexual male protagonist is not perceived as “pandering” to white, heterosexual gamers, but rather as “default” and “normal”.

When asked under what circumstances they would be willing to have a female or minority character in a game, many straight male gamers reply “if it fits the story” or “if it’s not forced”. Do they then view the presence of women, and people of colour, and LGBT people, in the world around them as “forced”? Or, more likely, do they merely view them as “lesser” and beneath their notice? But in gaming, supposedly an escape from the reality of a world in which the position of the white man is being slowly eroded, they find themselves yet again confronted with women and minorities, increasingly so as game developers attempt to be more inclusive.

Straight white male gamers are, essentially, little boys who were used to being an only child, only for a surprise sibling to come along much later, and are now throwing their toys out of the pram in protest at no longer being the centre of their parents’ (in this analogy, "parents" being game developers, or more broadly, the world in general) attention.

Thread: Living in a world where a 7 is average (not review score autism)
This is a topic I touched on in my Final Fantasy XV analysis/retrospective thing, and the Mass Effect downgrade thread stirred it up in my mind again, so I figured maybe I'd put my thoughts down on the subject as a whole and we could talk about it. I'll write it up into a more formal essay type thing at some point but for now I just wanted to share thoughts and gather ideas.

The tl;dr version is that prominent female characters in video games are not allowed to be ugly, because they're designed with the gaze of the presumed straight male player in mind.

This is far from being inherent only to gaming. We see it in Hollywood and the music industries, where female celebrities often feel the need to try to maintain their looks through extensive plastic surgery (Madonna, Megan Fox, off the top of my head) because they're painfully aware that their looks are a tradeable commodity on the showbiz stage. Once a female actress gets old, unless she's a revered dame like Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren, etc., chances are she's going to fall into obscurity. Because she's old, and old women can't be ugly, and what value does a woman have without her looks? Meanwhile, ageing actors like George Clooney and Harrison Ford still have successful careers, because they are not viewed with the male gaze - the presumed default audience - and thus do not have the same pressure to be attractive.

We see it very much in video games too. I pointed out that in FFXV, the male characters are very varied in their designs, in terms of facial features - big noses, scars, pores, wrinkles, greasy skin, chapped lips. Meanwhile, all the female characters are flawless mannequins, with flawless groomed hair and perfectly applied makeup.

4787f12c-0824-4a02-aa3b-1f8a03fa849a.jpg


An old picture, but it makes the point pretty well. While the main characters are fairly realistic, if anime-ised, Luna and Gentiana have perfect porcelain-doll features, almost to the point of uncanny valley.

Now, like I said, the ME: Andromeda downgrade thread reminded me of this. People were complaining about Fem!Ryder's derpface, and some claimed that the complainers' real problem was that Ryder wasn't a flawless model created for the male gaze. (By the way, it's both.)

So I went looking at the character pages for the original Mass Effect trilogy, wondering if there would be a noticeable difference in the designs of male and female characters. And hoo boy were there.

iwEqEVO.png


We can have female aliens, but only if they're hot blue bisexual female aliens! No weird lizard ladies for us.

Then I looked at The Witcher 3:

https://sneed-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/49/81/fc/4981fcdfe844ad60620a46a1acedf8a8.jpg

Definitely seeing a pattern....

watch_dogs_banner-HD.jpg


Yup.

It isn't just these. Most games you can think of, this will be the case, whether Japanese or Western. Because in Japan, and in the US and UK and Europe and everywhere else games are made - we live in patriarchal societies where women are objectified, literally turned into "things", for the sexual titillation of men. This trend is endemic in most media, be it TV, film, games, and so on. It commodifies the female body, assigns a woman a perceived worth based on how attractive she is to men. And (this is probably my favourite phrase by now) media reflects and reinforces the norms of society. In only allowing "attractive" women into games, in order to satisfy the presumed straight male player, not only do devs continue to exclude the 48% of gamers who are women, but they also reinforce the toxic notion that a woman's sole value and worth lies in her desirability to men.

The thing with this trend is - not only is it offensive to women, a reinforcement of those unattainable beauty standards we're constantly measured against, that "ordinary" women are somehow lesser, but it's also offensive to men; it implies that men only perceive female characters as fap material, and wouldn't be able to handle the presence of an "ordinary" female character. But then, on the flipside of the coin, we have men who complain when a female character doesn't measure up to their standards of attractiveness, thus seemingly proving the devs' point and putting female representation back even further.

(credit to wee for the amazing thread title idea <3)
Neogaf approved racism below.

Thread: Genuine question: What is white culture?
I know I'm likely not going to get the answer from, uh... "white culture worries" or better known as the alt-right. Since it's a term I've seen bandied about, specifically on JonTrons Twitter and various other folk I thought about it and realized I genuinely don't know what white culture would even be. A lot of people can point to any given PoC and give you an approximation of their culture--even if it's a racist one. People know what "Black music" is or what an "Asian family" might be like when you bring it up.

But what do people mean when they say white culture? The obvious answer is imperialism, oppression, things like that. But above all else I think white culture is about appropriation, and maybe that's where my confusion stems from. So, gaf, I ask you: What is white culture to you?

How little self-awareness do you have to have to claim white culture is all about appropriation while writing in a language created by white people?

Thread:
Do white game developers not know how to represent people of color?
So after I saw the mass effect character customization and we are still in 2017. You can see the video below:

It's just plain ignorant that hair representation is not equally distributed among people of color like whites in games. I mean they have 20 different types of hair for white, Asian, Hispanic, and etc but when it comes to black ladies hair textures and styles, their are only the dreaded cornrows or Bernie mac style afros. I mean do these developers not see what's in style with other cultures or is everyone just in there own bubble.

Right now everyone is up for more women roles and equality but that still only represents white women. Even with that it's still just white people are the among the prominent main characters with the most choices and customizations. I mean I wanted some strong black female customizations in games too. I mean look at theses examples.

Zazie beetz actress in Atlanta show:
dsc_4517.jpg


Or the new Iron Woman
IronGirl.jpg=s1200x1200


I mean how cool would it be to rock that puffy hairstyle for a protag.

And I as a black male would like a character to look like me
15781772_10211370720005358_6778525186393625093_n.jpg


I mean it's 2017 and we still have to bring topics like these up, I know some developers don't want to make Game Center around a black main protag or set in Africa, because let's be honest, salewise wont be too good, because the general public would come with some excuse that they can't relate to the characters......yea like I had to relate to Luke Skywalker, or Indiana Jones as my heroes growing up. So I would at least want them to provide the tools to fully customize my character to look like me in my story play through when given the options. Is that hard to ask ?

Funnily enough, there's a minor controversy over Mass Effect making pale skin tones DLC. The hallmark sign of a game developed primarily by non-self hating white people.

Crossing Eden made another race bait thread: Let's Talk About The Normalisation Of Racism In The Gaming Community

Not going to bother reading through the responses. If you've somehow read up to here, you might as well check it out for yourself.



Assorted garbage.


Thread: Female characters and sexual agency.
I've not really seen this topic covered much before, once I think about Bayonetta a few years back but I can't really remember what came of it.

So anyway, playing Horizon Zero Dawn, every now and again someone will flirt with Aloy and she completely shuts it down, zero interest. Most of these are fleeting innocuous conversations but it got me to thinking?
Why shouldn't Aloy take a liking to someone, even if its casual sex? And if not that far, why not show she has some interest in other people.

If Horizon starred a dude, how many opportunities for sexual encounters would be available if any?

We know about games where you can create your own character like Mass Effect, but I'm thinking more of the games with predefined female characters. Most of them seem to be sexually agnostic. Sure they may look attractive, but sex is the furthest thing from their mind. If they are romantically active, its usually a predefined relationship that the player has no action in furthering. The one exception I can think of was Ciri in TW3. I can't remember if she actually goes through with it, but I liked that she was the aggressor, its what she wanted to do. It was also a nice connection between her and Geralt, who will screw any woman on site it seems. If she is so much like her proxy dad, why not that way as well.

So do you think we'll ever get to a point where developers can give female characters a sexual appetite and control over what actions they take? Or are they worried it will just devolve into some pathetic slut shaming? Or, even worse, they won't give the female protagonist any sexual agency, because she's supposed to be in love with the player, and nobody else can have her. I have a feeling that has something to do with it and honestly thats kinda creepy.

So the other day, I (a 20 year-old guy) was studying with this girl in my Econ class. We'd been sitting next to each other all semester and I've come on to her a few times during the semester and she'd mostly play it off in jest. I was a little serious, but didn't expect anything to come out of this.

Well, the other day, we texted each other about meeting up after class to study in the library. We study, she has a good time, she finds me pretty funny so there were a lot of laughs going around. It was at this point I had planned to ask her if she wanted to "fool around" in her car before she left for class.

Fooling around was me thinking we could make out or me finger her or whatever, but I digress...

So, afterwards we walk to her car and ask she begins to put her stuff in the vehicle I say something along the lines of "Hey if it's cool with you, do you wanna 'fool around' before heading off to class?" She asked what does "fool around" mean. I said "nothing crazy" Then she laughs and says "I have to get to class" and then I say "How about for three minutes?" she says no again and I accept the rejection and say goodbye and start to leave.

It was a little awkward, but I feel like I went about that very poorly. After battling depression and hitting the gym for six months, this was my first real shot at getting involved with girls again. It's kind of embarrassing, but I've never kissed or girl or sex or anything due to my low self-esteem and confidence issues in the past. But now that I over came those issues, I feel as if my first try this year was me being oblivious and dumb.

I'm open to take advice on how to improve myself in this department.


:heart-empty:
 
You can totally see how some of them believe in the SJ like a religion,something like "Yoshida needs to absolve himself" it's not something You see any day,even on GAF
Respect for the guy calling Crossing Eden a shitposter and a toxic user and getting banned after that
This is late as fuck, but it bears repeating that this forum is run by a man who sexually assaulted a woman and actually went on to justify it ("Evil" refers to NeoGAF owner Tyler Malka).
CQM30bs.jpg


"I hope everyone here knows me better than that by now by the policies I set set on my website"

DuLdTcd.jpg


It happened a few years ago and would not be a big deal... if he did not continue to defend it and ban anyone who brought it up.

The fastest way a NeoGAF user can get accolades is by attacking the presence of attractive women in video games, while the fastest way a NeoGAF user can get a lifetime ban is by bringing up the sexual assault of a woman by the owner.
 
Wait, wasn't it misogynistic to criticize this shitty ME installment 5 minutes ago?
Because the game needs more gay representations and ME:A still isn't enough for the LGBT community.

You HAVE to be fucking kidding me. Good Job everyone! I don't give a shit about achievements anymore, but the fact that they managed to overlook this in designing them tells me how much they actually care about me, as a gay male.

Like, not having any gay male romances (like the previous games) is a lot better than this.
 
Why do people on other gaming forums care so much about the opinions people have on NeoGAF have? Honest question.

Didn't it have some reputation as semi-exclusive or something and actually have influential game devs on it before they were chased off by the literal subhuman garbage that lives there now?

I don't remember that time because I literally never heard of the place before it went full retard. The only reason I've ever read it is for yucks after seeing something hilarious in this thread.
 
There are people that actually bought Wu's nonsense about Samus being trans. :story:







http://archive.is/0F4UR

There are actually people who don't want to believe Wu is a tranny. :story::story::story:






I know some of them are using it as a trap to expose their archnemesis goobergaters but the rest are just so used to denying reality.

This thread is still ongoing.

Why do people on other gaming forums care so much about the opinions people have on NeoGAF have? Honest question.

There was a time when the forum was home to knowledgeable members of the gaming community and a decent amount of actual game developers. It's been years since that was the case. If you know your stuff, there's little reason to share with a group of people more interested in discussing a former game journalist's inoffensive Twitter posts than deep dives on canceled games. The militia has also chased off every notable game developer.
 
Back