Netflix is about to rape the Sandman

[MirrorNoir]

The Endless do have specific human forms. Gaiman either came up with them all or borrowed/stole them from others.

* Dream has been an alien-looking white guy with straight black hair ever since the series was first pitched, with sketches by Gaiman, McKean, and Baulch. His second aspect is a grown-up form of Lyta and Hector Hall's kid, the son of two pre-existing characters he incorporated into Sandman.

* Death was originally supposed to look like Nico, but the artist modeled her on Cinamon Hadley and Gaiman approved that.

* Destiny was a pre-existing character.

* Desire is just that Patrick Nagel woman, the one you used to see in nail salons and tanning parlors.

* Despair is Desire's twin and should be equally white.

* Delirium first appeared as a teenage scene girl so I wouldn't be surprised if she was modeled after someone Gaiman or an artist wanted to fuck. She's also a redhead, so we know what they're going to do to her. Bonus points if they just rehire Crazy Eyes from Orange Is The New Black.

* Destruction was evidently modeled after Brian Blessed before Jill Thompson gave him a less imposing physique.

It's true that the Endless look different to different people--Dream is an African when speaking to Nada and a cat when speaking to other cats, Delirium is Asian when working the San Francisco opium dens--but 99% of the time they have their normal appearance, even when no humans are around. Because that's what Gaiman wanted them to look like. The artists worked in their own styles, but they were always working from the same designs.

Delirium is based on Tori Amos; Tori and Neil were BFFs from Neil's days as a music journalist and Tori was one of the biggest/most high profile pushers of Neil Gaiman: The Brand; to the point that she inserted explicit shout outs to him and his works in her first four albums ("Tear In My Hand", "Space Dog", "Horses", and "Hotel"; with Neil explicitly called out by name in the first three).

Neil was madly in love with Tori and desperately wanted to fuck her/marry her, but Tori was had a boyfriend (Eric Rosse, who produced her first three solo albums) and after they broke up, Tori had a whirlwind romance/marriage to another man which caused shit to get super awkward as Tori and her husband started to see Neil as a super creeper and pulled the "I'm married now/starting a family and doing boring married couple stuff so we can't hang out with you" distancing from Neil; to the point that by the 2010s Neil and Tori had not spoken or seen each other in ages. Neil in return, jilted by his oneitis, married the first musician that he could find that looked like Tori and had to make do with an inferior substitute.

You know, for all the shit people talk about him, Alan Moore threw up his hands and walked away at a (comparatively) trivial defilement of his work. Why is the crazy hippie who worships a snake god the only one with any artistic integrity?

Because Sandman's the only thing of value and worth he's made.

He makes money off of his novels and shit, but none of his works has hit the correct pop culture zeitgeist like Sandman did outside Coraline and Coraline was a film that NO ONE would know if it was a Neil Gaiman adaptation unless you told them because the film's marketing never mentioned his name.

Also, adapting Sandman is tricky as fuck due to the fact that it's tied to DC lore (Justice League International show up early on as does John Constantine; not to mention Infinity Inc members Fury and Silver Scarab, the later having died and inhabiting the body of the 1970s Jack Kirby Sandman and Matt the Raven being Matthew Cable, bodyguard to Swamp Thing and comatose husband of Abigail Arcane; not to mention the arc welding of assorted 70s DC horror characters) characters.

Gaiman lucked out in that he was allowed a critical role to basically rewrite his comic for the TV adaptation (which probably cost him a good number of favors he's banked over the years) and you could make the case that his smugness is because of that.

IE the changes are his doing so he's happy with them than if he was at the mercy of people who didn't give a shit about the source material; especially given that one of the reasons Netflix got the rights is that HBO was wanting to put one of the Abrams/Lindelof crew onto the adaptation and they wanted to ditch EVERYTHING and make it a police procedural with Morpheus as a plot device to help the detective solve murders via her dreams.

Also Alan Moore has no credibility; he's just pissy that Fox didn't treat him like a Golden God and protect him when Fox got sued over LOXG; letting him be cross examined in a civil case before settling with the guy suing.

They're the mythological Cain and Abel. They apparently had some independent existence before they became dreams, but they "didn't look remotely human back then." The versions inhabiting the Dreaming are the hosts from House of Mystery and House of Secrets.
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If you wanted to use real world mythology, Cain and Abel is a Semitic myth--maybe inspired by Sumerian contest literature--and Eden was in Mesopotamia, so they'd be some variety of Middle Eastern.

Cain and Abel aren't dream entities but their lairs (the House of Mystery and Secrets) are adjacent to the Dreaming so they have ready access to the realm and Morpheus. IIRC their lairs exist on Earth but are in a phase shift with different dimensions and one of those are the dream dimension.

 

[Clorox Cowboy]

Because Sandman's the only thing of value and worth he's made.

Good Omens was insanely popular for years even before it got a screen adaptation and American Gods, Stardust, and Dark City are cult classics in their respected mediums.

He's definitely well regarded as far as novelists go and I think you are underselling his popularity. If you were looking just at his contributions to comics I'd understand, but just in general? No way.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

IE the changes are his doing so he's happy with them than if he was at the mercy of people who didn't give a shit about the source material; especially given that one of the reasons Netflix got the rights is that HBO was wanting to put one of the Abrams/Lindelof crew onto the adaptation and they wanted to ditch EVERYTHING and make it a police procedural with Morpheus as a plot device to help the detective solve murders via her dreams.

So what they did to Lucifer then? I didn't hate the show even if it took a downturn in later seasons but ultimately I cannot see it as an adaption of the comics given all it really kept was Lucifer, Mazikeen (I am not looking up the spelling, don't care) and his piano playing but it was alright for something inspired by them.

 

[Puddleduck]

The 24 Hours comic with all the people in the diner... I'm curious about how that gets adapted, because that fucked me up when I read it.

The episode which adapted that one is my second favourite I've seen so far (I've seen the first six)

It's basically a faithful adaption. The biggest change is that Dee was just an observer, instead of being the life and soul. But the various characters end up in the same place. More time is spent with them all.

Overall the episode feels a bit like a nightmare, though I don't know if anyone else would agree with me on that.

The episode is less "standalone" and more tied in with the running story - John Dee isn't Doctor Destiny (not yet anyway, maybe in the Netflix verse he becomes him later), and he's played by Professor Lupin.
He's still the son of Ethel Cripps, but instead of a random guard his dad was changed to Roderick Burgess, with whom she was a groupie. When she fell pregnant, she stole a chunk of his fortune and Dream's artifacts, and did a runner.
Ethel is given more characterisation, and is kept young by the Jewel of Protection she traded for the Helm with the demon.
John has the Ruby, which was the only artifact Ethel kept. He was using that to "take away the lies" of the diners.

 

[Shakatherapy]

The show wasn’t that bad aside from the race swaps. It was pretty much a direct adaptation of the first comic volume.

 

[Puddleduck]

The show wasn’t that bad aside from the race swaps. It was pretty much a direct adaptation of the first comic volume.

Yeah I was surprised by how good it was. I loved Death, which surprised me even more.

When it comes to modern adaptions, at the end of the day you either have to put up with race and gender swaps, or go without.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Yeah I was surprised by how good it was. I loved Death, which surprised me even more.

When it comes to modern adaptions, at the end of the day you either have to put up with race and gender swaps, or go without.

I'll go without.

 

[Piggy Higuera]

These Neil Gaiman adaptations always trick me by having one actor I like - American Gods had Deadwood/Lovejoy who was great in an otherwise terrible show, Good Omens had David Tennant but I only got three minutes in before deciding it wasn't for me at all (I had read the novel and liked it, but the show was just so fruity), and this one's got Stephen Fry. How much is he in it?

 

[Standardized Profile]

Was there any gay romance in the comic? Oh, I must say I haven't read not a single page of Gaiman's work.

Relationships, yes. Romance, not so much. Probably the closest you get is the rage-filled lesbian who despises the ugly stupid lesbian who cheated on her, but they stay together. Their characterizations soften later on, especially in the second Death miniseries, but in their first appearance they're just awful people. Oh, and there's the ancient catatonic esoteric magician whose pool boy fucktoy hangs around to wipe the drool off his mouth.

Delirium is based on Tori Amos;

I'm embarrassed I didn't pick up on that. How's Neil's marriage to not-Tori going? Did opening it up help? Are they still living in different hemispheres?

Cain and Abel aren't dream entities but their lairs (the House of Mystery and Secrets) are adjacent to the Dreaming so they have ready access to the realm and Morpheus. IIRC their lairs exist on Earth but are in a phase shift with different dimensions and one of those are the dream dimension.

I think they are dreams, even if they were not originally. Dream/Daniel recreates Abel after the Furies destroy him, which would not be possible if he were not a dream. I guess it's possible this is just a dream of Abel, not the original one, but I think it's the real deal.

 

[skippy]

this show sucked, you can tell its about dreams because black bitches constantly save the world while in the real world they fight over KFC and hair pieces on worldstar

 

[Oats12345]

this show sucked, you can tell its about dreams because black bitches constantly save the world while in the real world they fight over KFC and hair pieces on worldstar

You know people on here complain about Hemlock Grove but they did something that shows today would never do. They killed off a token black lesbian in the first season in a very brutal way.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

So is the tranny still not considered a woman?

 

[beef lo mein]

Are they going to do any of the books that are mostly unrelated short stories? I know there are a few.

One of my favorite Death appearances is a short where she has a run in with a seldom used DC character named Element Girl, who’s been longing to die for many, many years and is living alone and despairing. Rainie is overjoyed to think Death has come for her, and is saddened to hear that Death has no jurisdiction over her as she was made by a god. Death tells Rainie that all she needs to do is ask the sun god Ra to help her, since he was the one to bestow the ‘gift’ of immortality. So she sticks her head out the window and has a sweet, one-sided conversation with him. The story ends with Rainie’s phone ringing, Death picking up, and telling the caller that she’s not there anymore. It’s a lower tier story, but it’s a good one.

That, or Dream of A Thousand Cats. Really. Dream of A Thousand Cats.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Honestly I've mostly just had it playing in the background, the only one that got me to sit down and watch was the sixth episode.

The concept of the every 100 year meeting bromance is fucking fantastic and I really enjoyed that episode more than many episodes from many better shows.

 

[Just_a_Bored_Guy]

Are they going to do any of the books that are mostly unrelated short stories? I know there are a few.

One of my favorite Death appearances is a short where she has a run in with a seldom used DC character named Element Girl, who’s been longing to die for many, many years and is living alone and despairing. Rainie is overjoyed to think Death has come for her, and is saddened to hear that Death has no jurisdiction over her as she was made by a god. Death tells Rainie that all she needs to do is ask the sun god Ra to help her, since he was the one to bestow the ‘gift’ of immortality. So she sticks her head out the window and has a sweet, one-sided conversation with him. The story ends with Rainie’s phone ringing, Death picking up, and telling the caller that she’s not there anymore. It’s a lower tier story, but it’s a good one.

That, or Dream of A Thousand Cats. Really. Dream of A Thousand Cats.

Purportedly, season 2 will be Season of Mists and Game of You, the fourth and fifth storylines of the comics.
Sadly, this means Dream Country (which includes both stories you mentioned, plus Calliope and Midsummer Night's Dream) is most likely out.

 

[beef lo mein]

Purportedly, season 2 will be Season of Mists and Game of You, the fourth and fifth storylines of the comics.
Sadly, this means Dream Country (which includes both stories you mentioned, plus Calliope and Midsummer Night's Dream) is most likely out.

That’s kind of a letdown. I think all of the stories in Dream Country (thank you, couldn’t think of the title) are great in their own way. I’d forgotten about Calliope! That’s another nice, fucked up, heavy on the horror story, but it’s a good one that often seems to fall by the wayside when people talk favorite Sandman stories.

Still on the fence about watching any of it, feels like I’ll turn it on and it’ll be instant cringe.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Funniest shit I've seen in quite some time
Gaiman is more conscientious

 

[Puddleduck]

Funniest shit I've seen in quite some time
Gaiman is more conscientious

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To be faaaiir, none of the changes do change the heart of the story. Like sure, it's tedious to see nigs everywhere, but it doesn't really change anything.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

George Lucas not a good director? The fuck

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

These Neil Gaiman adaptations always trick me by having one actor I like - American Gods had Deadwood/Lovejoy who was great in an otherwise terrible show, Good Omens had David Tennant but I only got three minutes in before deciding it wasn't for me at all (I had read the novel and liked it, but the show was just so fruity), and this one's got Stephen Fry. How much is he in it?

A very short amount of the overall show, less than he was in the comics. In fairness he is not a huge role in that either.

Honestly while it has a long list of flaws it is a fairly close adaption of the comics. As such I suspect it will please no-one. Unlike a lot of more recent stuff the previous minority groups behave like selfish dicks as much as anyone else because their roles are unchanged from the comics. The Netflix changes are not just obvious but awkwardly obvious and what they left the same is going to get cries of "problematic!" going within the next 6 months.

My money says it gets a second season. Indeed it might already be filmed.

Overall the show is a 5/10. It is not an awful adaption of the bits of the comic it covers but many of the cast choices are average and the changes are unnecessary. Also it's not like the comics were perfect.

But by Netflix adapting something? 7/10. I honestly suspect someone forced a reshoot because so much of the dialogue is verbatim the dialogue from a comic decades old that it is surreal to see.