Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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paradox of tolerance

The funny thing is this whole thing is one paragraph, literally small enough to fit into my form post here without being disruptive, and they still don't get it's talking about them.

Karl Popper said:
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

Can someone tell me who Popper is talking about here? Who refuses to hear any argument and resorts to force immediately?
 
The funny thing is this whole thing is one paragraph, literally small enough to fit into my form post here without being disruptive, and they still don't get it's talking about them.
Can someone tell me who Popper is talking about here? Who refuses to hear any argument and resorts to force immediately?
hmm they never quote this part:
In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
 
People going absolutely bonkers on Framework because they started supporting vaxry's Hyprland project:
You know, this CEO might be Indian, but if he can make troons seethe this much, I think we can let him redeem.

Are you sure all of these are serious?
Isn't Poe's Law fun?

https://x.com/cmonkey/status/1976493945627766909
This also provoked a negative reaction from the woke mob about actions being more important than stated beliefs.

There are also Reddit threads about the topic in /r/framework. This seems to be the first, which the OP later deleted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1o22wrf/framework_supporting_farright_racists/
Archive.today and Archive.today
 
you just need to know microsoldering
I know microsoldering, but unfortunately my hands shake too much from inhaling lead fumes to do it anymore, and also, I frankly don't trust the Yellow Jews anymore after they got caught putting rootkits in their BIOSes a decade ago. Standardized, easily interchangeable parts are good, doubly so when you consider that this makes it easier to just slap an old Framework laptop mainboard in a $30 box and mount that to the wall for a home server once the eternal creep of software bloat renders that chip too slow for daily driver use and toss a $300 board at the chassis to upgrade it... you know, like you do for a desktop.
 
I frankly don't trust the Yellow Jews anymore after they got caught putting rootkits in their BIOSes a decade ago.
this is the reason you specifically get a used thinkpad: so you can remove the chinkbios mystery firmware and replace it with proper schizophrenic trannyware that has way less rootkit potential and boots 15x faster for some reason
Standardized, easily interchangeable parts are good
hopefully eventually there will be a few different companies making hardware for the framework platform
it's not truly based right now because i don't see a lot of that yet
good gesture but i'm not really holding my breath
 
I'm still not buying an overpriced novelty laptop.
I will continue buying used ThinkPads.

The entire concept of these fisher-price modular components is just ridiculous. Laptops are already repairable, you just need to know microsoldering. Instead The Raped™ throw up their hands like the helpless children. "Please sell me old stagnating components for twice the cost!" cried the soy-consumers. None of this makes economical sense as long as the $300 ThinkPad exists.
my actual laptop is a old hp that someone gave me because it did not work, a hp envy x360, and i was surprised that i found all the repair parts here from chinese brands that costed me pennies, i could not even buy them original because hp discontinued it, same as lenovo, dell not so much, but i like i could repair this with just spit and a screwdriver

I have sadly not joined the reddit gang of thinkpads i have not found one in the wild
 
I have a T480, but mostly use a T61 nowadays and it is still fine (if you don't need the performance). It is significantly bulkier, but the keyboard and clit quality is way better + the touchpad doesn't get in my way. Does not have two batteries like the T480 though, I would have liked that.
Also, a friend dropped and broke his T480 and I am the "computer guy" so he asked me if I could repair it (after a repairman sent him away). I don't really have any experience with stuff more complicated than replacing broken components, but he would throw it out otherwise, so I told him I'd give it a try. Kinda excited to try this, but also scared.
 
I'm still not buying an overpriced novelty laptop.
I will continue buying used ThinkPads.

The entire concept of these fisher-price modular components is just ridiculous. Laptops are already repairable, you just need to know microsoldering. Instead The Raped™ throw up their hands like the helpless children. "Please sell me old stagnating components for twice the cost!" cried the soy-consumers. None of this makes economical sense as long as the $300 ThinkPad exists.
This so much. I am all for modular and repairable computers. But for some reason none of the projects I have seen make sense once they are implemented. In most cases the modularity means that it's a closed standard, and all the modules are made by one comapny anyway. Some projects like Google's Project Ara never even launched (actually that's typical at Google). And some look good in theory but suck in practice. I know someone who has a Framework laptop. The modularity is done by means of USB-C - all three replaceable peripherals are just weirdly shaped USB-C devices and it just stops working mechanically, the ports stop working and you have to keep re-seating these pods or whatever.

At the same time you can buy used business class laptops for a fraction of the price. Hell, 10 year old thinkpads (3rd, 4th gen Intel i7's) are perfectly fine for checking email and light web browsing. For a price of a mid-tier Framework you can buy more than 5 of them as spare part donors. In this economy, business-class laptops like Dells, Elitebooks and ThinkPads are almost disposable. The most valuable part of them is the files on your hard drive anyway.

I was looking at the MNT reform laptop because unlike framework it is actually modular. Sadly it seems the people behind it are also pozzed.

TLDR: I like the idea behind framework but the execution lacks.
 
cool fact: the intel management engine is (was?) based on a permissively licensed kernel called minix made by andrew tanenbaum
they did not even notify him after they profited off his work for free
using a cuck license can be incredibly stupid. remember: when you license under mit, you're doing it for big tech for free

I wanna push back a little bit on this. Yeah, Andrew Tanenbaum got the raw end of the deal when Intel utilised MINIX 3 for the Management Engine. That said, dismissing all permissive licenses as "cuck licenses" risks throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are practical problems with the GPL, beyond the ideological baggage and opacity that GPLv3 came with. While I'd love to quote the entire OpenBSD licensing policy verbatim, it's a lengthy read. I did the normie thing by consulting ChatGPT for a summary; please read the original page if you take umbrage with an AI summary.

ChatGPT summary of OpenBSD copyright policy said:
The OpenBSD copyright policy explains that copyright law automatically grants creators ownership of their original works upon creation — no registration is needed. Copyright protects the expression of ideas, not the underlying material a new work might be based on. It distinguishes between original works, derivative works (those based on or modifying existing material), and compilations (collections of multiple works). Importantly, the copyright of a derivative or compilation covers only the new material added, not the preexisting works within it. Under international law (specifically the Berne Convention), authors also retain certain moral rights — such as the right to be credited and to object to harmful alterations — which cannot be legally surrendered, even if economic rights (like copying or distribution) are licensed or transferred.

In contrast, contract or license law governs how permissions to use copyrighted material are granted. A license extends certain rights (like copying or modification) that copyright law alone wouldn’t allow, while a copyright transfer gives someone else ownership of the work. Licenses like the ISC or BSD essentially make software as free as possible without violating moral rights; changing them usually either reduces freedom, changes nothing legally, or becomes invalid by overreaching. A key distinction is that licenses and releases apply only to the parts of a work that the copyright holder actually owns—they cannot extend or restrict rights to material owned by others.

Where copyright and contract law conflict, copyright law takes precedence. For example, altering or removing copyright notices doesn’t remove the underlying rights — it only creates legal uncertainty about who may use the material. Similarly, adding new terms that contradict the original license doesn’t override it and may void the modifier’s own right to distribute. Once permissions are granted under a license, they’re irrevocable for copies already distributed: the author cannot retroactively withdraw rights from users who legitimately received them. Thus, the policy emphasizes that copyright defines ownership and scope of rights, while licenses and contracts define the terms of sharing — and neither can legally contradict the other’s boundaries.

Some selections from the OpenBSD team's thoughts on other licenses.

OpenBSD Copyright Policy said:
Apache

The original Apache license was similar to the Berkeley license, but source code published under version 2 of the Apache license is subject to additional restrictions and cannot be included into OpenBSD. In particular, if you use code under the Apache 2 license, some of your rights will terminate if you claim in court that the code violates a patent.

A license can only be considered fully permissive if it allows use by anyone for all the future without giving up any of their rights. If there are conditions that might terminate any rights in the future, or if you have to give up a right that you would otherwise have, even if exercising that right could reasonably be regarded as morally objectionable, the code is not free.

In addition, the clause about the patent license is problematic because a patent license cannot be granted under Copyright law, but only under contract law, which drags the whole license into the domain of contract law. But while Copyright law is somewhat standardized by international agreements, contract law differs wildly among jurisdictions. So what the license means in different jurisdictions may vary and is hard to predict.

GNU General Public License, GPL, LGPL, copyleft, etc.

The GNU Public License and licenses modeled on it impose the restriction that source code must be distributed or made available for all works that are derivatives of the GNU copyrighted code.

While this may superficially look like a noble strategy, it is a condition that is typically unacceptable for commercial use of software. So in practice, it usually ends up hindering free sharing and reuse of code and ideas rather than encouraging it. As a consequence, no additional software bound by the GPL terms will be considered for inclusion into the OpenBSD base system.

For historical reasons, the OpenBSD base system still includes the following GPL-licensed components: the GNU compiler collection (GCC) with supporting binutils and libraries, GNU CVS, GNU texinfo, the mkhybrid file system creation tool, and the readline library. Replacement by equivalent, more freely licensed tools is a long-term desideratum.

TLDR: The GPL is built upon contract law, whilst using copyright law as its primary enforcement mechanism. This creates tangible problems for commercial entities that want to utilise free software, but cannot abide by the restrictions that the GPL itself places. If ideology isn't necessarily an issue, then corporate legal teams, who are unfamiliar with free software, are simply seeking to avoid liability risks. The same also applies to version 2 of the Apache License, specifically with the patent termination provisions.

Furthermore, MINIX was the passion project of a Dutch American computer scientist. MINIX was designed as a teaching operating system for compsci majors, with the tangential goal of proving the superiority of microkernels over monolithic kernels. The entire code base of MINIX is also stupidly small, like under 15,000 lines of code. This makes MINIX suitable not only for teaching students how operating systems function under the hood, but also for developing extremely tiny embedded applications, such as Intel's Management Engine. The MIT License absolutely dicked Tanenbaum over, and we can't ever forget that. Yet to dismiss all permissive licenses as "cuck licenses" means that colossal behemoths like the FreeBSD Project, also licensed permissively, is also a cuck project. Yet we have so much evidence to the contrary that FreeBSD is a cucked project.

FreeBSD, and its various components, are the foundation for stuff like Netflix's streaming platform, Sony's PlayStation 4 OS (maybe PS5 too?), not to mention being the backend for WhatsApp's servers. FreeBSD, as a permissively licensed operating system project, also receives a great deal of contributions back from these companies. If not monetarily, then through code contributions. FreeBSD's commitment to permissive licensing emerged from being a literal descendant of AT&T Unix through 386BSD. They literally took two clauses out of the original Berkley license, giving us the FreeBSD license. Is the FreeBSD license inherently superior to the MIT license? Probably not, since they're almost identical in terms of practical impact. I think the big differentiator here is that Andy Tanenbaum was just one guy working on a passion project that went nowhere until Intel decided to jack MINIX for their own ends, whilst FreeBSD is a colossal project dating back to the late 1980s/early 1990s.

As to my own thoughts, I'm more partial to permissive licensing, but I'm a loser who never wrote anything monumental that deserves to stay open to the public like GNU Readline. Maybe if I wrote something like that, I'd probably have a reason to stand by the GPL.
 
Don't know why they keep trying to reason with the mob but a Framework employee just put out a statement clarifying their position again on Discord:
1760194549520.png
"Hey all, I was not online when this conversation was happening but I do want to provide a response to this. Our goal is to keep improving Linux compatibility on our products. We send hardware and are starting sponsorships to organizations across the Linux ecosystem to keep making the Linux experience on Framework products better and help scale Linux adoption overall. That includes providing hardware to Fedora, Bazzite, NixOS, FreeBSD, Arch Linux, and many other distros, and sponsorships of Linux Foundation, LVFS, Hyprland, a number of Linux and open source conferences, and some additional sponsorships we’ll be announcing soon. Providing hardware or sponsorship doesn’t mean that we align with all of the viewpoints or statements made by people in each organizations; it does mean that we see alignment in driving the adoption and maturity of Linux and open source software. I’m sorry I wasn’t available when this was occuring and I hope that make things a little more clear on our stance."
As expected and judging from the reactions on Discord, the mob is still not happy.
 
TLDR: I like the idea behind framework but the execution lacks.
and soon we will see phase 2: "i love standards, there are so many to choose from!"
maybe in 20 years we will see a clear winner emerge after they work out all the retarded bullshit
Lmao, this was a solved issue 35 years years ago with PC cards, subsequently Express cards.

What everyone actually wants is IBM 2.0. Real modularity is what you see in normal desktop computers, which are all "IBM clones" or "IBM compatible". Using the open bus architecture did more for freedom and compatibility than anything the software guys did. It was great for consumers, but it required the biggest computer company in the world to take a leap and push it onto the market.

Over the next 40 years, that openness and competition destroyed the margins in the hardware business (IBM sold theirs to Lenovo). The survivors got comfortable going proprietary, in part for performance and in part to avoid that clone competition. There's nothing about modern laptops that requires any of this, but as the last somewhat viable PC hardware segment, no executive will willingly risk it.

Framework seems earnest, but they aren't IBM 2.0. They're still competing with IBM 1.0's architecture, and don't have a better replacement, or the ability to push scale to make a new standard. And now their consumers aren't dedicated hardware nerds who could replace anything without handholding, they're 2nd generation iPhone kids who want plug-n-play, who can't troubleshoot problems without a wiki or Stack Overflow article.
 
their consumers aren't dedicated hardware nerds who could replace anything without handholding, they're 2nd generation iPhone kids who want plug-n-play
iPhone kids don't even bother to learn to type with an actual keyboard, they don't give a damn about modularity, they don't even understand how filesystems work. Putting together a framework laptop with a youtube tutorial would be a huge step forward for most of them.
 
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