Overwatch

[xXWild_DripXx]

Dota has worked very hard to make comebacks more possible, but this results in extremely unsatisfying games where you play very well and then lose anyways because 50 minutes in you have one bad team fight and then they just melt your structures.

I played overwatch 1 very intensively and tried to play competitively. I got a very high dpi mouse, dropped in game sensitively to 2, bought a giant mouse pad, and really played a lot of tracer until I could place in low plat.

The game is not fun. I gave up because once finally getting out of gold, I was thinking the entire time that the good games were out of lower tiers, and it's not true. In higher tiers you get these crazy trick shot widows that kill you mid air from a mile away.

Snipers are not fun. Instant death is not fun. It has never been fun. It will never be fun. They just include it because everyone expects it. But one click kills from across the map ruin games.

>Snipers are not fun. instant death is not fun.it has never been fun. it will never be fun. They just include it because everyone expects it. but one click kills from across the map ruin games.

 

[The Last Stand]

and really played a lot of tracer until I could place in low plat.

The game is not fun. I gave up because once finally getting out of gold, I was thinking the entire time that the good games were out of lower tiers, and it's not true. In higher tiers you get these crazy trick shot widows that kill you mid air from a mile away.

Mid gold player, you can get hard stuck on there if you don't have proper communication.

 

[74164978231]

competitive play AND eliminating toxicity from its playerbase.

This is the fundamental problem with all these moba/team games.

You throw a random group of people together, lock them together for 15-60 minutes at a time punishing anyone who leaves. End result is shit personalities galore that happily take advantage and abuse the shit moderation these games have.

Mid gold player, you can get hard stuck on there if you don't have proper communication.

As someone who played comp from high gold all the way to mid diamond back in OW1 the quality of the games was always the same. Even in diamond you would get 3-4 games in a row that where just an absolute shitshow of feeding people, picking characters that where hard countered, griefing etc. Even the skill disparity and amount of try hards didnt change because gold/plat was filled with clear smurfs just there to burn ants with magnifying glasses.

And being stuck was no joke. Some seasons I would finish low/mid diamond, some high gold. Naturally id go wtf how did I end up in gold. So Id go check my stats on the characters I mainly played. Zero difference between diamond and gold. Same kdr, same dpm/hpm etc compared to when I ended a season in gold v diamond. The MM was just that dog shit.

 

[Null]

>Snipers are not fun. instant death is not fun.it has never been fun. it will never be fun. They just include it because everyone expects it. but one click kills from across the map ruin games.

WoR's take that sniper players are the gayest fags to ever choke on cock is by far his most 100% true take.

 

[xXWild_DripXx]

WoR's take that sniper players are the gayest fags to ever choke on cock is by far his most 100% true take.

Reel Tawk like hawnestly come the fuck on mods ban all the snipers.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

Snipers are not fun. Instant death is not fun. It has never been fun. It will never be fun. They just include it because everyone expects it. But one click kills from across the map ruin games.

Snipers are a good thing. They always attract the most insufferable faggots and in every game I play I absolutely love bombing or flanking the living daylight out of them complete with taunting after every kill. If they want to make the match unfun for everyone on my team, I'm gonna make the match miserable fo them. My fondest TF2/Tribes/OW (what little I played of it)/Battleborn memories include surfing past the enemy lines and stuffing multiple rockets/fusors down the throat of a Sniper/SNT/Widowmaker/Marquis then proceeding to surf back home or bomb the healer. Making them fear you is its own reward.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

One of the favorite thing i liked doing in the game was playing as Winston just to hunt down Hanzo/Widowmaker shiters.

 

[SauceRyuKen]

I'll die on this hill: Brink was the better, more fun OW, and it came out in 2012. Characters were actually powerful back then. OW just has this shit base design where one character can do one thing and one thing only and you get fucked if you try to be versatile. So you need your team to pick up the slack, in an absolutely anti-fun way. Used to be a Diamond player. General experience is barely better than a MOBA.

This is the fundamental problem with all these moba/team games.

You throw a random group of people together, lock them together for 15-60 minutes at a time punishing anyone who leaves. End result is shit personalities galore that happily take advantage and abuse the shit moderation these games have.

To me, it's absolutely crazy that they STILL do this. You're giving free reign to a bunch of fuckheads to just annoy someone as much as they can for the, at least, 15 to 20 minutes it's gonna take for the match to be over. And you can tell how the match is gonna go after first engagement. Jump in as Rein, fuck up their backline, Mercy at 20 HP McCree at 10. Your Genji is, for some unfathomable reason, diving Winston. Your Soldier is innacurate as fuck. You push the backline and they SOMEHOW manage to get 2 v 1'd by ultless Winston. You're out of DPS. They are crying that Zenyatta didn't heal enough and you didn't peel enough. The rest of the team gets rolled over by the McCree and Mercy combo you almost rolled over because nobody, not even Genji with his dash, saw fit to finish them off. That dash is a defensive tool to run from tanks, bro, what do you mean I should attack with it?

That's a loss. There's no need for a twenty minute match. That Genji isn't gonna switch. That Soldier isn't suddenly gonna grow fresh eyes and good hand coordination and start hitting those headshots. Sometimes people just don't gel, and it's genuinely nobody's fault. There's two big philosophies in this sort of games: Basically offensive minded play and defensive minded play. The Asians in particular will just throw everything they've got at the enemy backline hoping it explodes before theirs does. This is flashy, and to boot, it usually works. They'll only play peel if they're sitting on a considerable advantage. Western players tend to for whatever reason try to play hyper defensive with a heavy focus on peeling and kiting the tank, regardless of advantage. It takes forever but is perceived as the "Safer" option. Usually they need to pick stuff that's inaccurate but super high damage like Junkrat for this to work. Ironically, they don't always do that.

If you have even two guys of opposing mindset in your team in positions that matter you're fucked. You're gonna have one guy pushing and one guy pulling. They're not gonna find an agreement. And they're ball and chained together for the length of the match. None of them are gonna have fun and they're both gonna lose. Because they are trapped together, they're also gonna get mad and resent each other, the game, GOD HIMSELF, whatever. It's stupid as hell.

A big part of things is how MOBAs and OW are all very knowledge intensive, yet people tend to only know what their own character does... If that. Like if you're picking Soldier 76 and you want to win you HAVE to target backlines, because your damage is very easy to deal and you're versatile enough, but that ease of use comes at the cost of being easily outdamaged by any projectile character who actually has to work for their hits. You're not killing their tank before yours gets destroyed by Pharah/Junkrat and trying is useless. I don't think 99% of the playerbase, even in ranked, concerned themselves at all with this. The best you could hope for was people who at least had a basic grasp on who was the Flavor Of The Month busted pick and could somewhat bruteforce them into usefulness.

Just let players leave and tank the lost points but save the time and the mental energy of having to put up with RichardotLeTueur the 12 year old French Genji/Ashe main (He only plays COOL characters that he LIKES!) who died 10 times in 2 minutes somehow. It would cut toxicity by so much. People usually yell at other people because they feel it's the only thing they can do. I know I've called bad players fucktards and laughed at them because we were losing anyway, might as well kill some time.

With the money they make, they could just conduct a few matchmaking surveys to make sure you get good matches. Just a personality and playstyle type of thing. I'm an aggressive player, I play to win, I resent teammates that don't want to contribute, I don't mind serving up kills to other players if it furthers our goals to win, please match me with likeminded individuals. As long as people were honest, they'd always get teammates they'd like. But that doesn't further the ultimate goal, which is just keeping people on the hamster wheel forever. I heavily suspect that frustration and occasional release through one or two good matches plays a key part in all of these games, because I almost always had killer stats in all of them (14.9 ish KDA average in my heyday in League) yet I rarely if ever reached high ranks. In fact I tended to get stomped most of my matches once the teamfights started because my teammates fed much faster than I could kill the one or two dudes in front of me.

Haven't played these games in a million years and I think my life's better for it.

 

[Null]

Brink

rare brink owner. there's at least a few of us.


if you don't know, this game came out and said it was going to kill Team Fortress 2. It very quickly closed down its centralized servers.

 

[Ambient Occlusion]

This is the fundamental problem with all these moba/team games.

You throw a random group of people together, lock them together for 15-60 minutes at a time punishing anyone who leaves. End result is shit personalities galore that happily take advantage and abuse the shit moderation these games have.

And devs are confused as to why toxicity is so high. These games are miserable and 5v5/6v6 just makes it easier to pick out people to shit on. Especially if half the team is a stack with 1 random. I really miss 12v12 games and when Battlefield was good.

 

[Vect]

Snipers are a good thing. They always attract the most insufferable faggots and in every game I play I absolutely love bombing or flanking the living daylight out of them complete with taunting after every kill. If they want to make the match unfun for everyone on my team, I'm gonna make the match miserable fo them.

Thing is, sharpshooters have hard counters - no matter how good they are, they're only an insurmountable problem if you or your team refuse to adapt or counterpick. Much as Blizzard doesn't want to acknoledge it, the game at it's best becomes a dance of counterswapping until both teams reach relative parity. Trolling a good sniper with dive isn't toxic, it's the point of the game.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

Trolling a good sniper with dive isn't toxic, it's the point of the game.

My info on OW is severly outdated, does it have a backstabbing scumbag class like the Spy or Infiltrator? I don't think Reaper really counts, he struck me as a weird hybrid between Scout and something else.

 

[Vect]

My info on OW is severly outdated, does it have a backstabbing scumbag class like the Spy or Infiltrator? I don't think Reaper really counts, he struck me as a weird hybrid between Scout and something else.

Sombra got a rework, and while she plays more like a flanker, she's usually the hard counter to specialized characters. The new character Venture is sort of an assault 'infiltrator', but she's more lethal to healers, largely because I think she was designed after the hitpoint rework.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Dota has worked very hard to make comebacks more possible, but this results in extremely unsatisfying games where you play very well and then lose anyways because 50 minutes in you have one bad team fight and then they just melt your structures.

This is still a problem that TF2 solved - just make the matches not that serious.

Not just DOTA FYI, but all esports have this issue. Fighting Games are loaded down with various comeback mechanics for this exact reason - a one-sided win is apparently unfun to watch. But "Comebacks are no longer exciting and they're generally just expected now" isn't fun either.

OW's gameplay loop revolves on team synergy and player cooperation. Tank is supposed to absorb damage, damage is supposed to dispatch opponents, support is supposed to heal teammates. It worked relatively well the first couple years because everybody was learning together without fear of losing rank or participation.

In theory - sure. In practice, this has never been the case and Blizzard refuses to actually acknowledge it.

Tanks are the worst in this regard - they're so strong and beefy that pro players started legitimately asking "why are we bringing DPS when Tanks DPS better with no downside" and this is a question that is still unanswered to this day. All Blizzard could do is force players to field 2 DPS but could never actually balance around it.

Several tanks are capable of simply wombo-comboing DPS (Rein's charge on a stationary target, or Hook stun into headshot) and do insane damage otherwise. Rein's 6 second CD ranged attack does like 1/2 a DPS's health pool and between shots he gets to full hide or hide behind a 1200 HP shield.

To actually fix it would require a whole rework of the game where Tanks are much more vulnerable to damage on flanks (aka Reaper shooting you in the back, like he's supposed to) and maps get adjusted to allow for more side routes/infil paths and whatnot. This already didn't happen but maybe in Overwatch 3.

My info on OW is severly outdated, does it have a backstabbing scumbag class like the Spy or Infiltrator? I don't think Reaper really counts, he struck me as a weird hybrid between Scout and something else.

No. Reaper is the back stabber in theory (his teleport is supposed to help him sneak to flanks) but he isn't powered up when attacking from behind.

Also the OW2 sniper class gets (essentially) a fucking claymore mine to cover their flank and alert them and a grappling hook to get into deliberately hard-to-reach areas.

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

This is still a problem that TF2 solved - just make the matches not that serious.

Meet Your Match and all other compfag niggedry (random crits le bad, nerfs to gimmicky/fun weapons) directly contradicts that. Everything they bitch about was due to (in their mind) less skilled players having a chance at having fun in CASUAL MATCHES ON COMMUNITY SERVERS.

 

[FatalTater]

I used to play competitive OW in gold. Ah, those were the days.
I stopped playing competitive after players got SO SERIOUS about it, like screaming in rage at a stranger who missed a shot because they're human. I did not need the flashbacks to middle school gym class tyvm.
I would just play enough comp to see where I placed, then got back to quickplay for fun. But then the competitive attitude leaked into qp and made it less fun.

As for games where the teams aren't matched well and you know you're going to lose no matter what? Those were great for trying out weird fuckery. Play Dva as a sniper instead of a tank, no one will know wtf you're doing and it might break up the other team's strategy.

Cranky low IQ rantypants moment -- Decide to study a character and get really good at their role? Oh, here's a patch with all their shit changed! Have fun relearning it all! Like bitch. Stop.

The things I did for loot boxes. smh

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

rare brink owner. there's at least a few of us.
View attachment 6049824

if you don't know, this game came out and said it was going to kill Team Fortress 2. It very quickly closed down its centralized servers.

I remember reading about the game long ago and it sounded awesome on paper. its just they did something right before its release that killed it before it could get started but i cant remember what it was.

 

[Nobunaga]

A game where the only way to counter a sniper is by having a better player/the entire team rushing him and praying they can takr him down is inherently shit design from the start.
Say what you will about CS, but in a game where the auto sniper, deagle, scout and AWP can delete people without much though the AK is still king and the entire game revolves around it

 

[Enne]

Dota has worked very hard to make comebacks more possible, but this results in extremely unsatisfying games

Another massive part of the game that got ruined was working your way to a comeback before comeback gold ruined the game. It was so satisfying farming what you could, picking up kills where you could until you were strong enough to win a fight and controlling lanes to keep them pushed out so you can pressure a tower and trade if they tried to take yours or force them back.

I just remembered what dota used to be and how it got ruined all over again and I hate it.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Thing is, sharpshooters have hard counters - no matter how good they are, they're only an insurmountable problem if you or your team refuse to adapt or counterpick. Much as Blizzard doesn't want to acknoledge it, the game at it's best becomes a dance of counterswapping until both teams reach relative parity. Trolling a good sniper with dive isn't toxic, it's the point of the game.

Blizzard used to acknowledge it, but then they implemented role queue. If I roll tank and the tank that counters their comp isn't one I'm any good at, then switching to that tank is basically throwing.

I didn't have any trouble picking counters when we weren't force to stay in our roles.