Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

DDBCAE CBAADCBE said:
Is Legends any good? It looks great but I want to check into it more without spoilers before I buy. It isn’t another GO game is it?
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It’s pretty different, if you liked a lot of the elements in previous games, this changes most of them. The battle system is more like let’s go than Go.
 
Toxinophile said:
Yes I can because the games themselves are meant to be a separate primary source of Pokemon media and are reviewed as such. The audience knows the staunch difference between the Pokemon you see on the anime and the Pokemon you capture in the games. The average player can and should be able to make their starter's distinct from the anime. If what you're saying about the anime is true, then the starters in the game are worse off for having an indisputable singular personality directly tied to the anime, instead of objective creative freedom given to you by the game.
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I'm gonna start with the single personality thing, because it's a real bugbear for you that I don't think makes any sense. You seem to be suggesting that there is just no way that a starter with an established career or personality could be better received than one without, but there's no evidence for that. You've provided a chain of logic, but what you've absolutely failed to do is prove that logic is playing out in reality. What few measurements I've, scuffed as they may be like the Pokemon Poll, seem to suggest the opposite of what you're thinking - pokemon with personalities and careers can be even better received than Pokemon with careers, the new games have been selling on pace with the old even when the outward mood has been souring. And while you've derided it as a general source, what you've failed to do is provide any counteracting evidence.

If it's as objective as you're saying it is, there should be something - some concrete evidence you can come back to that will support your hypothesis. But you've failed to provide it. And you will continue to fail to provide it.

And that's also putting aside that "career" isn't necessarily the be-all and end-all of creativity that you pretend it is. You're saying, now, that players can completely ignore other sources for how a Pokemon is represented and come up with their own ideas regardless - but as soon as they're presented with the vague guiding principle of a career in the game itself, they just find it's an insurmountable wall? There are whole shows which are staffed by one career first and foremost, but they still manage to have interesting characters and takes - you think kids can't work with the vaguest piece of framework? I kinda think my interpretation - that they will be influenced by other media, but that can actually be the starting point for ideas, not the end - is better grounded.

I never said that. You are putting words into my mouth. You have already interpreted my own argument down to two sentences, yet neither me or you mention that the starters are meant to represent the region as a whole. Your false counterargument and examples does not work here when its counters a strawman that never existed.
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How else am I meant to interpret what we both agree is meant to be your point one:
  1. Pokemon are generally monsters first and foremost, and the starters should emphasize that.
If this statement is a true statement, it should hold for at least the subset of the first generation, which is generally among if not the best received of them and is where people's expectations of Pokemon are formed. But... it's not. The examples I gave seem to suggest that, if anything, humanoids with jobs were a dominant force among evolved Pokemon in gen one, and the starters were pretty much on their own in design and style.

To me, the whole floor of your argument, of what you think Pokemon are, isn't reflected when you actually look at the pokemon.

Snivy's "Smugleaf personality" may be a creative extrapolation of a single teaser image back from the 4chan image boards, but that type of anthropomorphism is nowhere within the games themselves, you've proved my point.
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Right, yes, there's nothing suggesting snivy has a smug, better-than-you personality or a human job in the games themselves. It's sprite movements don't suggest that it could be an uptight or snide type, maybe by having it fold it's arms and tap it's foot. And when it evolves into it's final form, it's name does not reference any words that might be associated with a specific personality, or - heaven forbid - it's name in other languages mention a human job specifically. Much like Empoleon before it, there's no possible job or human personality that could be associated with Serperior.

Because none of these examples have nearly as much anthropomorphic traits as the Pokemon starters from the 3DS era and beyond. The gen IV and V starters references ancient history and mythology, not a career, or a human profession. Blaziken's hakama-like leg feathers isn't nearly as egregious as Delphox's wizard wand, Primarina's jewelry, or Rillaboom's drumkit. Blaziken's fighter-based personally is hardly conspicuous when every single Pokemon battles in the games.
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Putting aside that your first example of "not mythology, but a career" is... a wizard's wand, they do reference mythology. Very specific mythology, often, especially in the case of an Emperor of the seas and Son Wukong from gen 4. You can't tell me that a japanese kid is going to have their imagination hampered by having a Pokemon with a weaponised career and NOT with a character from very well known legends represented in literal dozens of media.

Again, your drawn line of gen 6 and later is really shitty on this point. All three of the gen five mons - Samurai samurott, Wrestler Emboar, and lordly Serperior - clearly reference specific jobs and human archetypes. And if they're fine, maybe because those archetypes aren't common anymore in your eyes, then I can't see the Ninja Greninja, Knightly chesnaught, and wizardly Delphox as a problem. Or are you going to tell me that Primarina isn't referencing mermaids, another mythological creature?

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I'd say that's a clear method for determining which of the 24 starter Pokemon lines is the most beloved, more or less.

I cannot make this any more clearer, the objectively better Starters are the ones less anthropomorphic, and therefore more easily creatively malleable by the player. That standard of measurement seems universally fair IMHO.

There are only EIGHT trios of starter evolution lines to sort out dude, It ain't as impossible as you make it out to be. The less athro, the better. Simple as.
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The rest of your argument is repeating your logic and saying it's an objective unit of measurement. Which it's not. It's at best a hypothesis you've concocted, and one that - as far as I'm aware - flies entirely opposite to the observed reality (where the single highest rated Pokemon is a Gen 6 Starter with an unmistakable career.)

I have never heard someone argue this logic before, so I doubt it's the in-vogue theory accepted among even Pokemon fans, let alone creature designers as a whole. And if it is, you should be able to put something, SOMETHING in front of me that lines up with the hypothesis. some study or statement that grounds your theory as being more than a single spergery.

To sum up my theory into a couple of points, like yours:
  1. Your argument of Pokemon being monsters first and foremost doesn't line up even with gen 1, which had a large number of Pokemon evolving into more humanoid and humanised forms.
  2. The line you've drawn between gens of what makes good starters and bad starters makes no sense. Supposed "good" starters commit the sin of having heavily suggested personalities that "bad" starters do, and "bad" starters have the mythological basis that excuses the "good" starters in your eyes.
  3. The only evidence currently shown seems to suggest that players respond as well, if not better to starters with careers than they do to monster starters, and there's arguments that can be made to provide a logical basis for this...
  4. And the reason for these disrepancies is that the original measure is influenced by personal bias, as would be any argument for or against the designs.
 
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Bixnood said:
Man when the fuck pokeman home support coming for this?
Fucked up they expect you to pay regularly for a service and then have to wait months for it to be usable.
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This has been the case since X and Y. I don't know why you're surprised when this is like the 10th game they've done this with.
 
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Dunsparce said:
This has been the case since X and Y. I don't know why you're surprised when this is like the 10th game they've done this with.
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bank worked with ORAS at launch I'm pretty sure, don't really remember. and x and y came out before bank was released same with swsh and home.
I don't really remember what happened with sun and moon as I didn't play until after launch.
 
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Bixnood said:
bank worked with ORAS at launch I'm pretty sure, don't really remember. and x and y came out before bank was released same with swsh and home.
I don't really remember what happened with sun and moon as I didn't play until after launch.
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The Gen VII games and the Gen I and II VC all had to wait for patches. With Home, that was also the case for Pokemon GO compatibility.
 
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SteelPlatedHeart said:
I played it all last night. It has some hiccups, but I’m definitely enjoying the hell out of the game. I think they new stuff is just fresh enough to encourage people who wanted changes while not alienating the ones that like the original setup. I like seeing the side quests that hint at why certain Pokémon have the Pokédex entries they do, and that joke with the first scripted Alpha Pokémon fight was pretty good.
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Very much this for my experience as well. The game is incredibly fun to play if you enjoy it's loop, but I can see people getting burnt out on it quick if they aren't a fan. It has handholdy moments but there have been some side quests where they just give a vague hint and say "figure it out". The Unown riddles seem like they'll be fun to figure out once I decide to dedicate the time to them.

I'm also loving the new battle system where I can run around during the fight, and you can literally just run off from a wild Pokemon battle instead of choosing the run option which is cool. I like the more "real" feel of how you're actually a trainer right next to the fight rather than the "teleported into an arena" style battles from the regular games.

Hopefully they move forward with this concept, as a standard mainline game with Arceus mechanics would be what people have wanted for years.
 
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Legends has a decent enough Gameplay loop, but I’m honestly a sucker for a game that just lets me explore - I’d argue that Legends works because it focuses more on Exploration and Catching Pokémon than anything else, but that might just be after almost a decade of games being glorified hallway simulators plus the Wild Area, this honestly feels like a breath of fresh air.

There’s also a story, but it’s Pokémon, who gives any amount of fucks about the story in this series any more - it’s there mostly for progression imo…
 
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Leaf Wage Slave said:
I’d argue that Legends works because it focuses more on Exploration and Catching Pokémon than anything else, but that might just be after almost a decade of games being glorified hallway simulators plus the Wild Area, this honestly feels like a breath of fresh air.
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It's also a breath of fresh air that the Pokémon league wasn't shoehorned in as a major plot point unlike every other gen, even SUMO had to have you establish Alola's first despite it trying/stating itself to be a departure from the traditional structure
 
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I’ve actually been enjoying the story, if only because it’s interesting to watch people in the village go from being terrified of Pokémon to learning something about a Pokémon or realize how it can help in their day-to-day life, only to start to see Pokémon around the village helping out and expanding the place.
 
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SteelPlatedHeart said:
I’ve actually been enjoying the story, if only because it’s interesting to watch people in the village go from being terrified of Pokémon to learning something about a Pokémon or realize how it can help in their day-to-day life, only to start to see Pokémon around the village helping out and expanding the place.
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It also helps that, despite this game taking place 100 years in the past, no one is as double digit Iq'd as chairman rose
 
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SteelPlatedHeart said:
I’ve actually been enjoying the story, if only because it’s interesting to watch people in the village go from being terrified of Pokémon to learning something about a Pokémon or realize how it can help in their day-to-day life, only to start to see Pokémon around the village helping out and expanding the place.
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They treat Pokemon like violent wild animals, which they are, and mention them killing people. It's a breath of fresh air to have a more serious undertone to the world. I like the town slowly expanding and the Pokemon moving about the village throughout the day just like the people. The fact that NPCs and town Pokemon have a time based schedule is nice compared to "I stand here forever and look only this direction for all eternity" NPCs. Everyone has a name which alone makes them have more personality than most NPCs from the regular games, not to mention many have multiple sidequests where you get to explore them a bit.

Also Beutifred is the best town Pokemon and you can't change my mind.
 
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I've been playing the game since Thursday night (thank you, Eastern Time-based eShop time locks) and, as others have said, I'm not just liking the game but I'm also surprised about liking it.

Also, I either fucked up research-wise or my luck is off charts. I've already had 5 Shiny encounters so far and I don't even have the Shiny Charm yet. I somehow managed to fuck up a chance encounter with a Shiny Stantler when I was fucking around the Deertrack Heights but then I encountered a Shiny Geodude less than an hour after that. Since then I've gone on to catch a Shiny Drifloon, Zubat, and Starly. And I STILL haven't completed the optional Shiny Ponyta quest yet.

That said, the graphics are really funky, especially in cutscenes and TV mode. I also hope the game has more storage than your usual Pokemon game, with catching being PLA's main objective you're gonna fill up those 32 boxes FAST.
 
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