Retro games and emulation - Discuss retro shit in case you're stuck in the past or a hipster

[Pee Cola]

The mad guy is more right than the Twitter guy, since hardware emulation is a very different thing than software emulation, and I figure he must be ornery due to guys like Modern Vintage Gamer playing fast and loose with the definition of emulation.

My understanding - which could be wrong - is that an FPGA is a chip containing a shitload of logic gates that can be reprogrammed again and again (hence the name Field Programmable Gate Array).

I'm not even sure I'd describe what the MiSTer does as being emulation. It's real hardware with a real instruction set, only made up of one reprogrammable chip that does everything rather than a set of discrete chips each doing their own thing, tied together by logic that makes sure each chip gets along OK and that there aren't any bus conflicts.

FPGA programming is above my pay grade, so I'm not 100% confident in the above paragraphs. Happy for anyone who knows more about this to correct / clarify.

 

[Pissmaster]

My understanding - which could be wrong - is that an FPGA is a chip containing a shitload of logic gates that can be reprogrammed again and again (hence the name Field Programmable Gate Array).

I'm not even sure I'd describe what the MiSTer does as being emulation. It's real hardware with a real instruction set, only made up of one reprogrammable chip that does everything rather than a set of discrete chips each doing their own thing, tied together by logic that makes sure each chip gets along OK and that there aren't any bus conflicts.

FPGA programming is above my pay grade, so I'm not 100% confident in the above paragraphs. Happy for anyone who knows more about this to correct / clarify.

Sounds like we're about on the same page in terms of knowledge. FPGAs are about as close to the real thing as a reproduction could ever get, though I'd guess they'll never truly be 1:1 because of miniscule quirks here and there, AKA all the assorted bullshit Byuu was trying to iron out on his insane quest to create a perfect SNES emulator. Like, is the FPGA perfectly set so that the exact amount of time it takes information to leave the CPU and reach the RAM is perfectly in sync with a real NES? How many different possible ways could we end up with a race condition? Does this kind of thing actually matter with most games? Is it one of those cases where 99.9% of everything works, but there are a smattering of edge cases? Do I have the slightest clue as to what on Earth I'm talking about?

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Most recent "retro" game I played was Ascendancy (a space 4X game from 1995).

(it runs OK in DOSBox on a toaster)

 

[Probably An Autist]

Just got a retrotink 5x and better cable for my genesis. after playing around and updating it all, i still have some jailbars. Tempted to buy a second console and triple bypass it.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

I took a few years off from retro gaming as a hobby and recently walked into a locally owned retro gaming shop to see completely normal GameCube selling for $100 dollars. Animal crossing which was a very common game was selling for $60. It honestly shocked me. I picked up my gray GCN for $40 at that same shop a few years prior. Does anyone know what the fuck happened in the past 3-4 years with prices? Some of the games I've had for years quadrupled in price

Nostalgia retards mostly. A Nintendo Wii (OG edition) is literally a souped up gamecube with the GameCube controller ports, memory card slots etc. and can play Wii games too and for some reason it's getting sold for less than a GameCube nowadays. I still have my Wii U (unfortunately) and that's literally a souped up Wii that was a souped up GameCube and somehow even that can be picked up relatively cheaply nowadays.

They already know how to emulate, lol (and PCSX2 is still terrible).

PCSX2 isn't THAT bad. It's rough in parts but it does what it says on the package. Some games (like the Tony Hawk's series after 4) play like absolute dogshit with fucky fps issues but the bulk of the main titles play just about good enough to get your kick out of PS2 games without dusting out an old PS2. I pretty much use it nowadays to play Gran Turismo 3 and Ape Escape 2 because most multiplats play better on Dolphin.

I do personally wish PCSX2 got a competitor built from the ground up without the fucking frankenstein's monster that is PCSX2 nowadays (kinda like how Duckstation came out of nowhere and fucking buried EPSXE) but until then it's perfectly servicable. Significantly better than Xbox emulation and about on par with N64 emulation.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

I've heard of people who just bought Sega CD games for the soundtracks back in the day.

Unless you knew where to get OSTs for games back then, it was the only way to listen to video game music, unless you got creative and plugged your video game system to a sound system/boom box or took the discs themsevles and stuck it in your walkman (or go REALLY old-skool and create mix-tapes). PS1 and Saturn games were also useful for this kind of stuff. The problem is that some (if not most) of the songs on said disc were only like a minute or two long, so if you wanted more of Stardust Speedway from Sonic CD, you'd stick that shit on repeat till you were fed-up with it.

I still have my copy of Dark Legend for the Sega Saturn, and every now and then I like to stick it in my cd tray in my car and drive along listening to the songs from there. In high school I used to do this with Virtua Fighter 1 and 2, Sonic 3D Blast PC (which is a Saturn port), Sonic R, and Fighting Vipers.

 

[Carpenter Trout]

I still have my Wii U (unfortunately)

The WiiU is the best console to put emulators in, great for when friends come over. Also Nintendont is amazing

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

The WiiU is the best console to put emulators in, great for when friends come over. Also Nintendont is amazing

I'd agree if the WiiU UI wasn't so fucking trash. It takes forever to get from booting up to the home screen and navigating the actual menu is slow as hell.

Somehow despite loads and loads of updates they never managed to fix it. I enjoyed how easy it was to pirate things and it was actually comfy to have thousands upon thousands of games easily accessible (with native HDMI) but I'd rather just use my Homebrewed Wii than the shitty monster that doesn't even have a native GameCube controller port.

Oh and bonus points for the WiiU Pro controller being absolutely dogshit. There's no redeeming features of it at all and absolutely everything was upgraded with the Switch Pro controller.

 

[NoonmanR]

I took a few years off from retro gaming as a hobby and recently walked into a locally owned retro gaming shop to see completely normal GameCube selling for $100 dollars. Animal crossing which was a very common game was selling for $60. It honestly shocked me. I picked up my gray GCN for $40 at that same shop a few years prior. Does anyone know what the fuck happened in the past 3-4 years with prices? Some of the games I've had for years quadrupled in price

I recommend only going to retro game stores with price charting on your phone to catch them in a slip up or if you desperately need a game right then and there. You are not going to find an amazing deal there otherwise. Really, it's better looking for thrift stores, flea market booths, antique shops, pawns etc. Doing that i just bought a gamecube(no hook ups, but those are cheap enough to get), like 7 memory cards and a few games(most notably twilight princess) for 60 bucks altogether a few months back. And a few years back i got one with a bunch of loose games(mp4, mkdd, smash bros etc) for like 20.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

I recommend only going to retro game stores with price charting on your phone to catch them in a slip up or if you desperately need a game right then and there. You are not going to find an amazing deal there otherwise. Really, it's better looking for thrift stores, flea market booths, antique shops, pawns etc.

^this

The few retro game stores in my area seem to think it's a good idea to sell old games for the exact amount they were sold for when they were just released at that time period (e.g. Banjo Kazooie going for like $80 bucks or more. $75 seems to be the lowest they'll go). I've gotten 2 PS2 controllers from the same places that were cheaper than that.

 

[mensch]

Nostalgia retards mostly. A Nintendo Wii (OG edition) is literally a souped up gamecube with the GameCube controller ports, memory card slots etc. and can play Wii games too and for some reason it's getting sold for less than a GameCube nowadays. I still have my Wii U (unfortunately) and that's literally a souped up Wii that was a souped up GameCube and somehow even that can be picked up relatively cheaply nowadays.

PCSX2 isn't THAT bad. It's rough in parts but it does what it says on the package. Some games (like the Tony Hawk's series after 4) play like absolute dogshit with fucky fps issues but the bulk of the main titles play just about good enough to get your kick out of PS2 games without dusting out an old PS2. I pretty much use it nowadays to play Gran Turismo 3 and Ape Escape 2 because most multiplats play better on Dolphin.

I do personally wish PCSX2 got a competitor built from the ground up without the fucking frankenstein's monster that is PCSX2 nowadays (kinda like how Duckstation came out of nowhere and fucking buried EPSXE) but until then it's perfectly servicable. Significantly better than Xbox emulation and about on par with N64 emulation.

stenzek (Duckstation dev) has been working with the PCSX2 team for a few months, so hopefully he can whip it into shape. The user interface is being updated to match Duckstation's and a UWP port is in the works to natively support Xbox Series X. I'm also wondering if he will revive Duckstation itself, since his github has been making commits to it for the last couple of months.

I'll be forever thankful for him finally fixing a 6 year old blurry HUD issue plaguing Devil May Cry.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

I'm also wondering if he will revive Duckstation itself, since his github has been making commits to it for the last couple of months.

My bet is he's a fucking drama queen who wanted to 'abandon' the project so people would beg him to make his triumphant return. In fairness he did do an incredible job with it so was probably burnt out after getting so far only to end up in a pointless mudslinging fight for no reason.

PCSX2 sounds like creative mouthwash before he goes back and autistically tweaks Duckstation again.

 

[Two Dollars]

I wonder how many of the people in emulation circles (read: subreddits and Discord servers) actually have a moral opposition to piracy vs. just being power-hungry rulefags. Whenever I go to some group revolving around emulation, they’re always obsessed with enforcing anti-piracy rules. I get it for new games and not wanting to deal with TOS violations/thinking you shouldn’t pirate something that’s still on the market, but who gives a shit if someone needs help playing a downloaded N64 rom? For what it’s worth, I’ve seen some mods have a stance of “do what you want, but it’s still a rule we have to enforce, so I’m just gonna assume you’re not pirating anything unless you say otherwise”, but the majority swing their dicks around the moment someone says the word “downloaded”.

>your first problem was using Reddit/Discord
Yeah yeah I know. But emulation is a niche community, and if you have a technical question or simply want to discuss best emulation practices, you have to pick your poison.

 

[Stasi]

I wonder how many of the people in emulation circles (read: subreddits and Discord servers) actually have a moral opposition to piracy vs. just being power-hungry rulefags.

Mostly the latter in my opinion. I remember having a discussion with some of these types on a gaming forum and after some prodding one of the most anti-piracy posters admitted to playing ROMs of Japan only games and fan translation, and then twisting himself into all kinds of knots trying to justify it.

Also, I think a more recent subset is collectors who have a vested interest in their 30 year old cartridges being valuable on the second hand market "don't play that emulator, go buy the original hardware and games!".

 

[byuu]

My understanding - which could be wrong - is that an FPGA is a chip containing a shitload of logic gates that can be reprogrammed again and again (hence the name Field Programmable Gate Array).

I'm not even sure I'd describe what the MiSTer does as being emulation. It's real hardware with a real instruction set, only made up of one reprogrammable chip that does everything rather than a set of discrete chips each doing their own thing, tied together by logic that makes sure each chip gets along OK and that there aren't any bus conflicts.

FPGA programming is above my pay grade, so I'm not 100% confident in the above paragraphs. Happy for anyone who knows more about this to correct / clarify.

It's still emulation. It doesn't use the original chips nor is it a complete reimplementation of the original chips, and they use the ARM core on the FPGA for many tasks. Not to mention all the analog shit on old hardware.
For example MISTer supports the C64 and Amiga, which are famous for their mixed signal chips (digital & analog both on a single chip).

MISTer is absolutely a form of emulation. But it still has advantages over software emulation like direct access to hardware interrupts without going through 10 OS layers.

 

[Carpenter Trout]

The user interface is being updated to match Duckstation's

Dolphin UI.
Dolphin UI everywhere.

 

[Cyberpunk Panatela]

Someone who posts here may know this: Is there such a thing as a "custom console", or is that stuff just BS?

Why I ask is some faggots on 4chan's /v were bragging about their examples (eg. Legend of Zelda symbol inlaid into a NES or a N64 with an ugly lurid pink casing.

There were also some paint jobs, like a PS1 with Sonic the Hedgehog on the CD flap and recolours.

A bitchfight then broke out between the tards with the inlays/new plastic boxes and the ones with the paint jobs. The former accused the latter of not having true custom consoles, claiming theirs were worth money and the others were defaced and completely worthless.

Does "custom console" have a special meaning besides "different from stock"?

First time I've heard of this.

PS: found the thread (Archive made for future reference)

 

[HONKHONKTIME]

im having some trouble finding a pc engine emulator. i tried magicPC and ootake but neither could recognize my roms. I have the BloodGear cd img and Out Live Hu card rom. the Hu card rom is a .pce file and blood gear is a .CCD file and a .IMG file. My tech skills are abysmal. this may be too much for me. i really dont want to pay out the ass for 8bit mecha games in a language i cant read

 

[Road Work Ahead]

im having some trouble finding a pc engine emulator. i tried magicPC and ootake but neither could recognize my roms. I have the BloodGear cd img and Out Live Hu card rom. the Hu card rom is a .pce file and blood gear is a .CCD file and a .IMG file. My tech skills are abysmal. this may be too much for me. i really dont want to pay out the ass for 8bit mecha games in a language i cant read

I've been using Mednafen to play PCE games with good results.

I tried both games and they worked fine for me, though my version of Blood Gear was a .bin and .cue file.

Edit: There is an english patch for Out Live: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2814/

 

[bifftango]

im having some trouble finding a pc engine emulator. i tried magicPC and ootake but neither could recognize my roms. I have the BloodGear cd img and Out Live Hu card rom. the Hu card rom is a .pce file and blood gear is a .CCD file and a .IMG file. My tech skills are abysmal. this may be too much for me. i really dont want to pay out the ass for 8bit mecha games in a language i cant read

You'll need the syscard3.pce BIOS if you're trying to boot a CD-ROM game. As for the overall operation, just search for a step-by-step guide to set up a PC Engine emulator, and you it should set you straight.