Retro games and emulation - Discuss retro shit in case you're stuck in the past or a hipster

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Even if the Dreamcast had been successful enough to last longer by late 2001 its lack of technical power when compared to the PS2, the Gamecube and the Xbox would have forced Sega to rush out a successor by late 2002 to stay competitive.

It was strong enough, you can't look at Sonic or Shenmue and conclude it was weak. Weaker, sure, but the power difference wasn't insurmountable. There were examples of even bigger differences in power where the weaker system thrashed the stronger competition, like Wii or DS.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

its lack of technical power when compared to the PS2, the Gamecube and the Xbox

eeeehhhhh, depends on what we're talking about.

For Example:

Dreamcastify

dreamcastify.unreliable.network

TL;DR - With every port of Sonic Adventure, the "more powerful" systems had to use work-arounds to get things to work and look right, but they are by no means perfect and even have game-breaking flaws to them.

 

[Granada Granola]

I've also heard "Dreamcast died to piracy", seemingly forgetting that the Wii could be soft-modded within a year of release (Twilight Hack) and despite that, still printed money for several years afterward.

That's just a retarded narrative pushed by ModernVintageGamer and his reddit goons. Its the only corner of the internet I've ever heard people claiming that about the dreamcast when the real problem is that there were hardly any interesting games on it and most of them were 2D shit or didn't take advantage of the new hardware capabilities like the cancelled half life port tried to. That and next generation consoles coming out right after and we all know how prolific the PS2/Xbox library was.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

That's just a retarded narrative pushed by ModernVintageGamer and his reddit goons. Its the only corner of the internet I've ever heard people claiming that about the dreamcast when the real problem is that there were hardly any interesting games on it and most of them were 2D shit or didn't take advantage of the new hardware capabilities like the cancelled half life port tried to. That and next generation consoles coming out right after and we all know how prolific the PS2/Xbox library was.

A huge amount of Sega's library dating back to Genesis (and probably Sega Master System) was that they were arcade ports. The problem was that arcade ports had fallen out of favor two or three consoles ago (light gun games, really?), and that left only stuff like Sonic as far as original titles. They needed a real hit and none of the original games really provided that. Blue Stinger sold poorly in Japan as a launch title and while the American release was not as bad, fell into complete obscurity. Stuff like Seaman was more memorable and one of the examples of those weird Japanese games hitting Western store shelves, but it didn't sell. Shenmue was ambitious and expensive, but for all of its neat features didn't actually make it entertaining or a huge hit, ChuChu Rocket! used the online capabilities but was visually unattractive (it was ported to GBA within a few years and didn't look that much different), Sonic Adventure was the start of Sonic's long decline in the 2000s, the list went on and on.

 

[Baraka Obama]

That's just a retarded narrative pushed by ModernVintageGamer and his reddit goons. Its the only corner of the internet I've ever heard people claiming that about the dreamcast when the real problem is that there were hardly any interesting games on it and most of them were 2D shit or didn't take advantage of the new hardware capabilities like the cancelled half life port tried to. That and next generation consoles coming out right after and we all know how prolific the PS2/Xbox library was.

Dude are you new to the internet? I heard people saying this as far back as 2002 in message boards.

 

[Anime=Tranime]

DC had the same problem that the Saturn, or the Amstrad Plus! range, had.

In the Saturn's case yes, thou it wasn't so much design to compete with the previous hardware, more so it was still designed to be a 2D-Powerhouse and by 1994 the Industry was just quickly moving towards 3D.
The Dreamcast did what Sega wanted it to do perfectly and that was to finally fulfill the original promise under which Sega started to produce consoles in the first place: ''Bring the Arcade Home'' since the Naomi, Sega's main arcade-hardware after the Model 3 was more or less just a DC.

It was strong enough, you can't look at Sonic or Shenmue and conclude it was weak. Weaker, sure, but the power difference wasn't insurmountable.

I think videos will better illustrate what I mean:
Soul Calibur 1 vs 2
Dead or Alive 2 vs 3 (Released 1 Year later)
Metropolis Street Racer vs Project Gotham Racing (Released 1 Year later, MSR 30 FPS vs PGR 60 FPS)
Sega GT, Le Mans 24 Hours and F355 Challenge vs Gran Turismo 3
Can't find a video but just compare how Headhunter looks vs Metal Gear Solid 2.

I think people forget just how old the DC was by the time the Gamecube/Xbox were released.
The DC was originally released in November 1998, the PS 2 was released 1,5 years later in March 2000 and both the Gamecube and Xbox were released about 3 Years later in September and November of 2001
Its not really surprising just how much more powerful they were especially since unlike the PS2 with its special hardware design, the DC was designed to be cheap and easy to use and because of that used components that even in 1998 weren't really cutting edge.
The whole defining consoles by generations is dumb anyways and the DC is another good example why.

There were examples of even bigger differences in power where the weaker system thrashed the stronger competition, like Wii or DS.

The Wii is a special example since it was sold entirely on the back of its gimmick, motion control.
Similarly the DS touchscreen manged to also drawn in a lot of casuals, don't forget how successful gimmick games like Brain Age originally were. Outside of that Nintendo had the big exclusive IPs like Pokemon to drawn in the regular gamers.
Sega outside of Sonic, which compared to Mario or Pokemon is still small fries, never managed to create really big/lasting IPs.

TL;DR - With every port of Sonic Adventure, the "more powerful" systems had to use work-arounds to get things to work and look right, but they are by no means perfect and even have game-breaking flaws to them.

No, the people handling the port just did a bad job. The Sonic Adventure 2 Port runs perfectly fine, the Sonic Adventure 1 port was just a bad port. For another example, don't forget that the Gamecube Port of PSO supported 4 player-splitscreen because the consoles was just that much stronger. The DC has no Splittscreen at all.

That's just a retarded narrative pushed by ModernVintageGamer and his reddit goons.

ModernVintageGamer has nothing to do with that narrative.

The real problem is that there were hardly any interesting games on it and most of them were 2D shit or didn't take advantage of the new hardware capabilities like the cancelled half life port tried to.

Sega did create games that pushed the DC to its limit like Shenmue 1 and 2, Phantasy Star Online and Jet Set Radio the real Problem was that Sega alone couldn't carry the DC and outside of Resident Evil Code Veronica and Soul Calibur there were barley any big publishers/developers creating AAA-Games for the DC.

That and next generation consoles coming out right after and we all know how prolific the PS2/Xbox library was.

Funnily enough it was the Hype for the PS 2 not its library that killed the DC, thou if the DC had lived longer the PS 2 library would have done it. The DC was discontinued on 31.01.2001. At that point in the time the PS 2 didn't have any outstanding exclusives yet. The Xbox is basically irrelevant since it was only released in November 2001.
If you compare the 2000 Lineup of the PS 2 against the DC, the DC Is actually the clear winner, thou its king of unfair since the PS 2 launched in March of 2000 while the DC had been released 1,5 Years earlier in November 1998.
Playstation 2:
- Ridge Racer 5
- Tekken Tag Tournament
- The Bouncer (Yes, its sucks but it was one of the first big/hyped up games for the PS2)
- Driving Emotion Type-S (Same as with The Bouncer)
- Midnight Club: Street Racing
- Dead or Alive 2 (Also on Dreamcast, as good on the Dreamcast as on Playstation 2 espacially visually)
- Time Splitter
- Dynasty Warrior 2
Dreamcast:
- Shenmue (in Japan on 29.12.1999 thou)
- Resident Evil: Code Veronica
- Grandia 2
- Skies of Arcadia
- Crazy Taxi
- Jet Set/Grind Radio
- Phantasy Star Online
- Rayman 2 (Also on N64, PS1 but the DC has both massively improved Graphics as well as better gameplay/level design)
- Virtua Tennis
- Samba de Amigo
- Space Channel 5
- Metropolis Street Racer
- Sega GT
- Sega Marine Fishing
- Dead or Alive 2 (Also on PS 2, as good on the DC as on PS 2 especially visually)
- Marvel vs Capcom 2
- Quake 3 Arena

 

[Xarpho's Return]

If you compare the 2000 Lineup of the Playstation 2 against the Dreamcast the Dreamcast is actually the clear winner, thou its king of unfair since the Playstation launched in March of 2000 while the Dreamcast had been released 1,5 Years earlier in Novmeber 1998.

I believe the PS2 was a big enough hit that there were shortages in Japan, and any bump that the Dreamcast got is probably just "can't get a PS2, might as well get Dreamcast". The "actually the Dreamcast beat the PS2 the first year!" is another Dreamcast coping point.

That being said, the N64 fandom is also a lot of cope as well. The difference is that Dreamcast launched with 18 titles and not one of them set the world on fire, while Nintendo 64 launched with two and Super Mario 64 became an all-time classic, and paved the way for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Nintendo was also far better off financially, as Sega had been losing money for years. (Sega and Nintendo were rumored to be in merger talks as of 2000, though both officially denied this). Okawa's debt forgiveness and his $695M worth of stock still weren't enough to save the company permanently and by 2004 Sammy Corporation purchased their outstanding shares and restructured both companies as Sega Sammy Holdings.

 

[Anime=Tranime]

I believe the PS2 was a big enough hit that there were shortages in Japan, and any bump that the Dreamcast got is probably just "can't get a PS2, might as well get Dreamcast". The "actually the Dreamcast beat the PS2 the first year!" is another Dreamcast coping point.

I wasn't talking about sales at all. The PS 2 outsold the DC by a huge margin in 2000. I was purely talking about the game Lineup and in 2000 the DC's Lineup was far better than the PS 2's Lineup.
As far as I can remember Sony initially in 2000 even had the problem that, while the PS 2 was selling well its game weren't because people were using the PS 2 just to watch movies, which was bad for Sony since, like everyone else, they were selling the consoles at a loss and making the actual money via royalties from game sales.
The 2001 PS 2 Game Lineup is one of the greatest years in terms of games any console ever had thou. Sega got kind of lucky with their discontinuation since most people just remember how awesome the 2000 DC Lineup was. Had the DC not been discontinued prematurely and lived till 2002/2003 I strongly doubt it would enjoy the legendary reputation it has today.

That being said, the N64 fandom is also a lot of cope as well. The difference is that Dreamcast launched with 18 titles and not one of them set the world on fire, while Nintendo 64 launched with two and Super Mario 64 became an all-time classic, and paved the way for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

I would argue the N64 had the exact same issue as the DC. Nintendo couldn't carry the console alone, even if they overall could carry it better than Sega could carry its consoles mostly because of games like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, which is why they lost against the PS 1 so hard since nearly all important publishers/developers were totally focused on the PS 1 and didn't develop any exclusive AAA-Games for the N64.
The DC had its Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time in Shenmue even if the gameplay had nowhere near as much mass appeal.

Nintendo was also far better off financially, as Sega had been losing money for years. (Sega and Nintendo were rumored to be in merger talks as of 2000, though both officially denied this). Okawa's debt forgiveness and his $695M worth of stock still weren't enough to save the company permanently and by 2004 Sammy Corporation purchased their outstanding shares and restructured both companies as Sega Sammy Holdings.

Yeah, Nintendo always had the Gameboy to fall back on which had its second honeymoon starting in 1996/1997 to early 2000s because of Pokemania. Nintendo's Handhelds financially carried the company and subsidized the home consoles since the N64, with the Wii being the sole exception.
Also Sammy didn't just purchase the remaining shares it was more like a hostile corporate takeover. Post Sammy ''Merger'' Sega is Sega in Name only.

 

[Pissmaster]

Dreamcast didn't have a DVD player at a time when DVD playback was the most important thing in the world, and while a lot of its exclusives were great and unique, they weren't all palatable for normies. Sega was insane to allow Yu Suzuki to run wild, and write a blank check for Shenmue.

There are a bunch of other little factors, but the same end result would have happened, piracy or not.

That being said, the N64 fandom is also a lot of cope as well.

Are you not from North America? Something I've noticed over the years is that Americans see N64 as a success, and a strong opposition to the PlayStation. It is very common to meet people who have fond memories of playing N64 games like Goldeneye and Mario Party with family. Europeans see it more along the lines of second-class platforms, like the Atari 7800 and PlayStation Vita.

I loved the N64, and I am a Real American.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

I believe the PS2 was a big enough hit that there were shortages in Japan, and any bump that the Dreamcast got is probably just "can't get a PS2, might as well get Dreamcast". The "actually the Dreamcast beat the PS2 the first year!" is another Dreamcast coping point.

There were PS2 shortages everywhere. What's worse is that there was an even larger shortage on memory cards.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Are you not from North America? Something I've noticed over the years is that Americans see N64 as a success, and a strong opposition to the PlayStation. It is very common to meet people who have fond memories of playing N64 games like Goldeneye and Mario Party with family. Europeans see it more along the lines of second-class platforms, like the Atari 7800 and PlayStation Vita.

I am an American, I think the Snoy defenders may have gotten to me. The thing about Nintendo that I loved wasn't just the games, it was the whole culture, for a long time, even into the PlayStation era, Nintendo was video games. It was during the sixth generation of video game consoles that a lot of the vidya culture to began to shift. G4 was the coalescence of a lot of the seeds that the PlayStation and Xbox spread, and started to make it more of a "hip" thing. From "women in vidya" to "check out this cool Zelda tattoo" stuff can be traced back to G4. It was endemic in the video game industry, by 2005 Nintendo Power had even redesigned their magazine with that sort of thing in mind. The "2007 is when everything went to shit" meme is inaccurate because by 2007 a lot of what people hated by 2014 was well underway.

It was strong enough, you can't look at Sonic or Shenmue and conclude it was weak. Weaker, sure, but the power difference wasn't insurmountable. There were examples of even bigger differences in power where the weaker system thrashed the stronger competition, like Wii or DS.

The real issue was the game size. The GameCube already had a tough time because the mini DVDs were smaller than the PS2 and Xbox, the Dreamcast was using a proprietary format called the GD-ROM, which had more capacity than a CD-ROM but less a GameCube miniDVD. Sega had promised DVD Dreamcasts or an add-on, but the add-ons for the Genesis had already left a lot of bad taste in consumers' mouths (and on the subject of Nintendo, probably one reason why the N64DD was kicked down the road).

 

[Baraka Obama]

No, really, 2007 is when everything went to shit.

 

[Pissmaster]

I am an American, I think the Snoy defenders may have gotten to me. The thing about Nintendo that I loved wasn't just the games, it was the whole culture, for a long time, even into the PlayStation era, Nintendo was video games. It was during the sixth generation of video game consoles that a lot of the vidya culture to began to shift. G4 was the coalescence of a lot of the seeds that the PlayStation and Xbox spread, and started to make it more of a "hip" thing. From "women in vidya" to "check out this cool Zelda tattoo" stuff can be traced back to G4. It was endemic in the video game industry, by 2005 Nintendo Power had even redesigned their magazine with that sort of thing in mind. The "2007 is when everything went to shit" meme is inaccurate because by 2007 a lot of what people hated by 2014 was well underway.

Xbox was outright announced on MTV, and it + PS2's DVD playback support was the first time that any successful game consoles were also central home theater devices.

I think a lot of people who defend the PS1 have rose tinted glasses for it, and always tend to bring up no more games than a typical N64 fan. PS1 had bigger numbers, and as a result, way more crap. Digging into PS1 romsets has been moreso disappointing than interesting. And those loading times, they're still irritating even with 1000% speedup. I know it's popular to shit on N64 for using cartridges, but I guess most people weren't bothered with all the loading time when they were kids.

Loading times have always been awful. Now we're in an era of 100gb+, SSD-required games that still have loading times. Like what the fuck even?

 

[Baraka Obama]

I think a lot of people who defend the PS1 have rose tinted glasses for it, and always tend to bring up no more games than a typical N64 fan

No way. When talking about N64 fans bring up the same set of games, PS1 it's a different set of games for each person and the list is usually 2x to 5x the size.

My personal PS1 list is huge

Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere
Aconcagua
Air Management 96
Alundra
Alundra 2: A New Legend Begins
Amored Core
Arc the Lad
Arc the Lad 2
Arc the Lad 3
Armored Core: Master of Arena
Armored Core: Project Phantasma
Arthur to Astaroth no Nazo Makaimura - Incredible Toons
Asuncia: Matsue no Jubaku
Azure Dreams
B.L.U.E.: Legend of Water
Baroque
Bloody Bride: Imadoki no Vampire
Boku no Natsu Yasumi
Bomberman Wars
Brave Fencer Musashi
Brave Prove
Breath of Fire 3
Breath of Fire 4
Brigandine: Grand Edition
Bugs Bunny Lost in Time
Card Captor Sakura
Castlevania Chronicles
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Chocobo Racing 2
Choro Q Wonderful!
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Clock Tower
Clock Tower 2
Clock Tower: The First Fear
Community Pom
Crash Bandicoot
Crash Bandicoot 2
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped
Crash Bash
Crash Team Racing
CTR: Crash Team Racing
D
Dino Crisis
Dino Crisis 2
Dokodemo Issyo
Dr. Slump
Dragon Quest 4
Dragon Quest 7
Dragon Valor
Dragon Warrior 7
Dynasty Warriors
Echo Night
Echo Night 2
Ecsaform
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Final Fantasy Origins
Final Fantasy Tactics
Front Mission 3
Galaxy Fraulein Yuna: Final Edition
Ganbare Goemon: Ooedo Daikaiten
Ganbare Goemon: The Successor for a New Generation!
Ganbare Goemon: Uchuu Kaizoku Akogingu
Genso Suiko Gaiden Vol. 1
Genso Suiko Gaiden Vol. 2
Gex
Gex 2: Enter the Gecko
Gex 3: Deep Cover Gecko
Ginga Ojousama Densetsu Yuna 3
Goujin Senki
Grandia
Gundam Battle Assault 2
Harvest Moon: Back to Nature
Harvest Moon: Back to Nature Girl ver
Iblard: Laputa no Kaeru Machi
Jade Cocoon: Story of the Tamamayu
Klonoa: Door to Phantomile
Konekomo Issyo
Koudelka
Kowai Shashin
Langrisser 4
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Mana
Linda³ Again
Looney Tunes Sheep Raider
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
Medarot R
Megaman 8
Megaman Legends
Megaman Legends 2
Megaman X4
Megaman X5
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid VR Missions
Metal Gear Solid: Integral
Micro Machines
Misadventures of Tron Bonne
Mizzurna Falls
Momotarou Electric Railway 7
Momotarou Legend
Money Idol Exchanger
Monster Rancher
Monster Rancher 2
MonsterSeed
Nightmare Creatures
Nightmare Creatures 2
Ogre Battle
Parasite Eve
Parasite Eve 2
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Persona 2: Innocent Sin
Pocket Fighter
Policenauts
PoPoLoCrois Monogatari
Prism Land Story
Puyo Puyo 2
Puyo Puyo Sun
Puyo Puyo~n
Quake 2
R?MJ: The Mystery Hospital
R4: Ridge Racer Type 4
Rayman 2: The Great Escape
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis
Resident Evil: Director's Cut
Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure
Rockman Dash 2: Episode 1: 'Roll-chan Kiki Ippatsu!' no Maki
Saga Frontier
Saga Frontier 2
Sakura Style Game of Life
School Maker
Shin Megami Tensei
Silent Hill
Soul Edge
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage
Spyro 3: Year of the Dragon
Spyro the Dragon
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Strider 2
Strider Hiryu 1 & 2
Suikoden
Suikoden 2
Summon Night
Summon Night 2
Syphon Filter
Syphon Filter 2
Syphon Filter 3
Tactics Ogre
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Eternia
Tales of Phantasia
TearRing Saga
Techno BB
Tenchu 2: Birth of the Stealth
Tenchu: Stealth Assassins
Tetris with Cardcaptor Sakura: Eternal Heart
Thousand Arms
Threads of Fate
Tokimeki Memorial 2
Tokimeki Memorial: Forever With You
Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider 2
Tomb Raider 3: Adventures of Lara Croft
Tomba!
Tomba! 2: The Evil Swine Returns
Torneko: The Last Hope
Tripuzz
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Vandal Hearts
Vandal Hearts 2
Vanguard Bandits
Vib-Ribbon
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Xenogears
You Don't Know Jack
You Don't Know Jack Mock 2

Imagine if I were into shmups and fighting games, you'd have more games that you can say are cool than there are N64 games total.

I know it's popular to shit on N64 for using cartridges, but I guess most people weren't bothered with all the loading time when they were kids.

Doesn't bother me even today.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

And those loading times, they're still irritating even with 1000% speedup

Preaching to the choir, I'm sure, but have you tried Duckstation with Read speedup and Seek speedup? It can help, though it's always the games that need it most that don't work with it (Destruction Derby Raw for example).

 

[Pissmaster]

Doesn't bother me even today.

It does bother me especially today because it's cold hard proof of how shitty game development is now. Loading times from CDs sucked, but then I grew up and learned about how CDs work, and they're such touchy, error-prone things that it's amazing optical media even works. But now we've all got SSDs with crazy I/O speeds, and the reason we're seeing loading times longer than two seconds is because Poopeet in Mumbai has no qualms with leaving eleven different languages worth of voice acting and every single 4k texture in the game uncompressed and unoptimized.

You know, I just thought of something - there's an entire new genre that's very popular now, the one where you build factories, and a lot of the fun comes from optimizing your factory in little ways. So, ironically, in an era where games aren't optimized at all, other games where optimizing your work are increasingly popular. Go figure, right?

Preaching to the choir, I'm sure, but have you tried Duckstation with Read speedup and Seek speedup? It can help, though it's always the games that need it most that don't work with it (Destruction Derby Raw for example).

I didn't know it could do that, though I know I've played around with something before that promises faster loading times, but risks crashing the game. So I just hold the speedup button to jet through loading screens and developer intros.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

I think a lot of people who defend the PS1 have rose tinted glasses for it, and always tend to bring up no more games than a typical N64 fan. PS1 had bigger numbers, and as a result, way more crap. Digging into PS1 romsets has been moreso disappointing than interesting. And those loading times, they're still irritating even with 1000% speedup. I know it's popular to shit on N64 for using cartridges, but I guess most people weren't bothered with all the loading time when they were kids.

No way. When talking about N64 fans bring up the same set of games, PS1 it's a different set of games for each person and the list is usually 2x to 5x the size.

My personal PS1 list is huge

I think when comparing the Nintendo 64 with the PlayStation, the PlayStation had broader appeal that led it to get higher numbers, but had very few standout games to represent the console that had timeless, nostalgic appeal. (If this wasn't the case, the PlayStation Classic wouldn't have flopped as hard as it did.)

The Wii is the ultimate example of appealing to many, many people but almost nothing to be considered truly great. It was about there when I checked out of the console wars altogether.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

I didn't know it could do that, though I know I've played around with something before that promises faster loading times, but risks crashing the game. So I just hold the speedup button to jet through loading screens and developer intros.

Yeah, you have to experiment with different read/seek speedup speeds to find out which ones work per-game. Protip: Seek speed has a much greater impact than read speed, so only turn that down as a last resort.

FWIW, here's a post I made a while back (three fucking years? ) comparing load times of select games.

 

[BrunoMattei]

A huge amount of Sega's library dating back to Genesis (and probably Sega Master System) was that they were arcade ports. The problem was that arcade ports had fallen out of favor two or three consoles ago (light gun games, really?), and that left only stuff like Sonic as far as original titles. They needed a real hit and none of the original games really provided that. Blue Stinger sold poorly in Japan as a launch title and while the American release was not as bad, fell into complete obscurity. Stuff like Seaman was more memorable and one of the examples of those weird Japanese games hitting Western store shelves, but it didn't sell. Shenmue was ambitious and expensive, but for all of its neat features didn't actually make it entertaining or a huge hit, ChuChu Rocket! used the online capabilities but was visually unattractive (it was ported to GBA within a few years and didn't look that much different), Sonic Adventure was the start of Sonic's long decline in the 2000s, the list went on and on.

Okay, the real answer as to why the Dreamcast bombed: Sega burned the bridge with consumers one too many times with the failure of the Sega CD, the 32X and then the Saturn. Consumers played wait and see when the Dreamcast came out and that delayed initial push and then the arrival of the PS2 was enough to kill it. It's that simple.

All the kids in school were like that. I was legit interested in House of the Dead 2, Code Veronica and the new Sanic but even I told my parents to wait and see. And the inevitable happened.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The DC was originally released in November 1998, the PS 2 was released 1,5 years later in March 2000 and both the Gamecube and Xbox were released about 3 Years later in September and November of 2001

The Wii is a special example since it was sold entirely on the back of its gimmick, motion control.

Switch released a few years before its competition too, and its primary gimmick definitely wasn't "entirely" what sold it unlike with the Wii (many people treat it as a regular console). It may be a better example to use then, because it again had the price and library advantage, but didn't coast on gimmicks to kick the competition's ass.

I think videos will better illustrate what I mean:

Soulcalibur 2 is obviously going to look better on any platform of the time (including Dreamcast had it released there), which is a given, but I do acknowledge the significant graphical advantage the other consoles had. But again, I just don't find it to be a generational leap in quality between it and its competitors.

People sometimes try to lump Dreamcast in with PS1 but that's crazy because there's not a single person at the time who didn't consider DC to be a full generational leap ahead. Watch any of the launch event interviews, everybody was hyped over the graphics. It was the least of its concerns and absolutely would've sufficed if not for...almost everything else.

The real issue was the game size.

Yeah, that definitely didn't help Sega at all either. Their controller lacking a second stick also probably would've hurt it had it continued to exist. There were some really bad decisions made beyond the most obvious like lack of DVD or piracy. It was a boat full of holes, unfortunately.