Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Mystery Spy said:
I've always found it interesting how Star Trek tends to mean a lot more to the fans than to most of the actors.

I can't blame them, because their job is literally to lie to us (that's what acting is). If anything, that's a testament to their skills. Stewart might be the most extreme case of being absolutely amazing when it comes to realizing scripts, but still somehow completely clueless about writing, or even what people like about Star Trek.

There's an old interview with Jeri Ryan that impressed me because she was absolutely able to nail that Star Trek was about hope and optimism. That didn't stop her from signing up for Star Trek: Picard to butcher her character. But to be fair, acting is her job, and she needs to work. Can't blame her for not rejecting a paycheck. Still I do miss when she was a superlogical ex-borg regaining her humanity, instead of girlboss #2414 boss they turned her to.
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Also re Picard and the Pegasus and *that episode* of Enterprise, it was one of the many, many episodes that Brannon Braga regretted writing.
 
Mr. Racewar1488 said:
Fellow Trekkies, what would you rather do?
1. Watch Section 31
or
2. Watch Shades of Grey, Threshold, Come Along Home back to back to back
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I used to say, "Gee, isn’t it nice that ['90s nostalgia act] is making a comeback?" But I’m not. I’m not glad, not even a little. I just want Yeoh to pack it in.
 
I'm not going to lie

After re-watching Enterprise I am now a fan. I didn't really enjoy the last season but everything else was very decent.

I like Baylock as a Vulcan, Phox is amazing all around and I loved the Andorians, Shran so very much. Combs never disappoints. And I really liked the Soval character, he is exactly what I imagine a Vulcan would be like when forced to spend so much time with humans. Like a really tired and frustrated parental figure but when good things happens he acts like a proud father.

Really it's much better then I remember and gave it credit for. It's a little slow but the cast is amazingly good.

Only complaint is things feels rushed. The formation of the Federation was mostly off screen and seemed really fast for all these disparate species coming together especially if you remember most of them were at war with each other before the humans blundered into space.

They focused way too much on the big action scenes, probably to try to salvage ratings, and I thought they should have spent way more time with the Klingons and Romulans. All that time war shit was silly and wasted IMHO. The show didn't need a big over arching plot line it was fine as it was.

Tell the story of the founding of the Federation that's all. I blame modern writers who just need to show big plot lines into everything since fucking End Game. That movie is a bloody plague upon media.

Still a good time 7/10 over all.
 
Regarding Star Trek: Enterprise, I think it wasn't its quality as the reason it got a bad reception; some people blame oversaturation, but I think it was more the fact that it's healthy for a franchise to have periods outside the spotlight.

The '90s were good for Trek, and Enterprise was the last good Star Trek show. But it just wasn't sustainable to keep it going forever. While I agree with the sentiment that Enterprise still had a few more seasons to give, overall, the renaissance that started with TNG was overdue for a conclusion.

Star Trek could have had another great renaissance if they had given it to talented people who loved the show. Even Seth MacFarlane demonstrated he could do with The Orville. But J.J. Abrams was just too good at printing money via nostalgia (aka parasitism), and it ended up in the hands of untalented hacks, people more concerned with activism and virtue signaling than continuing the legacy. Alex Kurtzman, the lead hack, being the worst of all
 
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Mr. Racewar1488 said:
Fellow Trekkies, what would you rather do?
1. Watch Section 31
or
2. Watch Shades of Grey, Threshold, Come Along Home back to back to back
Click to expand...
Option 2. At least bad trek is still trek.
Sweeter and Savoury said:
I'm not going to lie

After re-watching Enterprise I am now a fan. I didn't really enjoy the last season but everything else was very decent.
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I guess you could say it was a long road getting from there to here...
 
I remember all the hype around the War Arc, how it was supposed to save the show. But when I finally watched it, all I could think about was the Duras sisters, Sela, and Robert Foxworth on DS9. This feels like a rehashed political drama from TNG and it’s been done four times already. I kept seeing all this back-and-forth between the writers (Braga and Coto not being able to agree on whether the Vulcans should be the real heavies or not) and that’s usually a bad sign.

People like to point to the actors' earnestness, but that alone doesn’t do enough to save it.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
It was absolutely bizarre why they wrote these characters in the way that they did. First, they pick a TNG season instead of a post Nemesis time, which requires recreating a TNG set, finding Sirtis a proper wig, and finding TNG-era uniforms when it's been about ten years later IRL. Had they picked a post Nemesis timeline, they could have just redressed an ENT set for the Titan setting. Then, they pick Pegasus of all episodes where Riker in particular is in a high-stress situation caused by divided loyalties and would not be dicking around on the holodeck. Thirdly, watching Archer's inauguration isn't really inspiration to violate a lawfully given gag order. Remember that Picard didn't have the legal right to find classified documents, but called a bunch of personal favors to do so. Thus Riker was legally correct to not reveal information without Pressman's authorization.
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It wasn't a lawfully given gag order. It was a gag order to keep quiet about an illegal act the person giving the order was directly involved in. That constitutes an unlawful order. Legally its no different than if a general ordered somebody to keep quiet about the massacre of civilians he ordered. He's not only not legally bound to follow it he's explicitly legally bound to report it

What picard did was legally correct, there was an actual coverup of an illegal act going on and the people trying to keep him away from the records relating to it and issuing the order not to discuss it with him were involved in that coverup

There is also the fact a mutiny, the loss of a ship and multiple deaths were involved and that everyone involved lied during that investigation
 
WonderWino said:
It wasn't a lawfully given gag order. It was a gag order to keep quiet about an illegal act the person giving the order was directly involved in. That constitutes an unlawful order. Legally its no different than if a general ordered somebody to keep quiet about the massacre of civilians he ordered. He's not only not legally bound to follow it he's explicitly legally bound to report it

What picard did was legally correct, there was an actual coverup of an illegal act going on and the people trying to keep him away from the records relating to it and issuing the order not to discuss it with him were involved in that coverup

There is also the fact a mutiny, the loss of a ship and multiple deaths were involved and that everyone involved lied during that investigation
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Except that's not how it works either in the episode or in real life. Certainly one could argue he was not bound to cover it up to his own command (again that gets into the weeds about what/how exactly it was classified) but to take it upon himself to reveal directly to the Romulans that information would be not just career ending but worthy of jail time if it happened today. Ultimately the federation was violating a treaty with the Romulans. Fine. He can take that up with his chain of command, or rather with such a sensitive situation the senior civilian leadership giving his chain of command their orders. What he can't do, as a fucking ship captain is decide he'll take it upon himself to let the Romulans know about the classified tech Starfleet is developing by literally showing it to them. That's called treason.

There are a lot of treaties out there. The US has signed treaties promising not to put weapons in space. What do you think would happen if some Major decided he didn't like the fact that he found out there was a highly classified anti nuke space laser program going on because it violated a treaty and decided he was gonna pass the details along to the Russians? He'd have been sharing a cell for the rest of his life next to Robert Hanssen. One crime does not negate another. In fact the examples you used of massacres/mishaps/embarrassments being classified to cover them up happens all the time. Guess what happens if some functionary decides to publicly expose them? They'd go to jail. If Picard had decided to be a whistleblower to his chain of command, or even some federation oversight committee he might have avoided prison, but his career would still be over.

Why do you think Snowden is still stuck living in Russia? Because if he steps foot back in this country without a Presidential pardon he's heading straight to florence colorado. Regardless of how legal or illegal the classified information he exposed was.
 
Enterprise felt like the machine that made Star Trek in the 80s and 90s for TV was just tasked with making more. They came up with an interesting premise to differentiate it but then it just cranked along making more Star Trek with out much enthusiasm. It was fine.

I have never seen all of it, at some point I tried a watch and trailed off before the end of the first season. I kind of remembered a lot of it and it was a bit of a slog. At the time I'd watch Stargate and watch two or even three in a row. I never felt like watching another episode of Enterprise after finishing one. i think if I was to watch it now, I'd just go straight to s3.

What would be the most recent show that fall onto the model of a Star Trek or Stargate? Long seasons of episodic content. With varied self-contained episodes that isn't a Law and Order type show.
 
Screamer_2 said:
Enterprise felt like the machine that made Star Trek in the 80s and 90s for TV was just tasked with making more. They came up with an interesting premise to differentiate it but then it just cranked along making more Star Trek with out much enthusiasm. It was fine.

I have never seen all of it, at some point I tried a watch and trailed off before the end of the first season. I kind of remembered a lot of it and it was a bit of a slog. At the time I'd watch Stargate and watch two or even three in a row. I never felt like watching another episode of Enterprise after finishing one. i think if I was to watch it now, I'd just go straight to s3.

What would be the most recent show that fall onto the model of a Star Trek or Stargate? Long seasons of episodic content. With varied self-contained episodes that isn't a Law and Order type show.
Click to expand...
Part of the problem with Enterprise is it was the same people doing the same things they'd been doing since the late 1980s. Rick Berman and the same guys who had been writing and doing the producing and the sets and the designs and all of it. It was simply stale by then and they were tired. It needed new blood. I get that writers and directors and even producers came and went, but there was this core of writers who didn't seem to change and as soon as TNG ended, they either went to DS9 or VOY and once those two wrapped up to ENT. It really needed to lie fallow for a bit.

That and the premise was supposed to be humanity's first steps into the galaxy. Everything should have been new and exciting and dangerous and action filled. Unfortunately, it was just more of the same. Look at TOS and you had Kirk literally fist fighting a god in the form of Gary Mitchell. We never came close to that in ENT. I've said before that Tom Paris should have been more like Han Solo, who was the best pilot Janeway could have hoped for but a man who basically didn't care about orders. Mayweather should have been cut from the same cloth. Have him know half the planets in the sector because he had been there, knows this alien and that alien and every bar from Alpha Centauri to New Vulcan and back. Instead, he was another do nothing character. Give Hoshi some badassness to go along with her self-doubt. These are supposed to be the guys making up the rulebook Kirk abides by. Instead, it's business as usual for Picard era Starfleet. And that comes down to the same writers using the same paint-by-numbers approach to episodes and characters.
 
I watched Section 31. It was complete garbage. Not even fun to riff on. It's just a boring ass ripoff of The Hunger Games and Suicide Squad. There's like 6 or 7 scenes where all the main characters talk in a circle and spout off expository dialogue. The fight scenes are lackluster and the dialogue is cringe. I shit you not, one character says "Chaos is my friends with benefits." Jamie Lee Curtis cameos in it as the head of Section 31. She looks like a purple skinned Marge Simpson. I hope it was worth Alex Klutzman's boner for black ops secret organizations.
 
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