Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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I've watched everything up to DS9, but haven't seen Voyager at all.

The more I hear about it, the more I'm kind of curious about it. I love the premise. I've heard its not as good as it could be, but has glimpses of greatness.

Voyager's big problem was they pretty much dumped the writing team who'd just done 7 years on The Next Generation straight into another show set on a ship that they planned to run for another 7 seasons. Which means the writing up until Season 4 suffers quite a bit.

Once you hit the two parter of The Year of Hell however, things tend to smooth out, with that two parter in particular fucking shining in terms of concept and plot.

Janeway's also the worst of the Captains when it comes to Federation principles which makes some sense considering the shit she has to put her ship and crew through considering how much of a paper tiger the ship is most of the time.

Sisko's my personal favourite as I enjoy the unusual concepts that DS9 explores.
 
Sisko's my personal favourite as I enjoy the unusual concepts that DS9 explores.


Sisko and DS9 show how to actual do 'dark' (or more accuratly mature) star trek. While the show engages with realpoltik and morally ambigious situations it's made pretty clear that these are essentially good people who live in on the very borders of a pleasent humaine society.
Also if the Dominion or the cardassian union were to scavange cybernetic from people they'd either kill you or knock you out because having a shrieking writhing prison is really impractical.
 
I've seen a lot of theories that the writers behind the show don't like Star Trek, or science fiction, or whatever, but I'd like to propose an alternate hypothesis.

That the writers know nothing BUT pop culture genre media.

That their entire lives have been spent discussing the minutia of Star Wars/Trek/LOTR/capeshit on internet sites, writing slash fanfiction with 7of9, and wondering what kind of porn Romulans are into.

That they see everything through a lens of geek culture references because they have little to no experiance at, well, life.

nonono, you're confusing different types of people.
if you are the kind of nerd like us, who not only reads stuff on the internet but actually participates in it, there's an exchange of opinions, ideas, knowledge etc. when you have a discussion about something or outright disagreements inevitably it broadens your horizon, because your interest is genuine and you're excited enough about the material that you talk about it in your spare time, to the point you look into stuff to get a better understanding.
also, this might sound a bit arrogant, but there aren't a lot of "dumb" nerds.

the other is the "faux nerd" who has only surface knowledge because he simply has no interest in the material in itself but it's popularity or the power that he can exploit. like the chick in high school who wore a nirvana shirt and didn't know who kurt cobain was or an SCP admin.
or you're a hack and can't cut it in the real world but it's "nerd shit" so "easy to write" and you still like the admiration and "fans", especially when you latch on to a popular franchise (like chuck wendig). even shippers usually care and put more effort into their shit than those people.

not saying those camps are mutually exclusive, but if you actually care about it you would never rape it to the extend star wars and star trek have been, because that take's actual effort and people that allow you to do so.

will there be a nerd (or someone who can look up shit on a wiki) on the nutrek team? sure, probably an intern or shitty assistant job, because no way those people get a cushy writing gig. you can also see how the hacks write the shit backwards. "we need a character die gruesome for drama, preferably established already for the "fans" and so we don't have to write a backstory", then they ask the nerd if there's a borg (because 7of9) who knows picard, who then says "well, there's hugh..." but before he can go further into it the writers already jerk each other off how clever they are. there's no discussion if it fits the character or if it would be what actual fans would want to see, it's just something to plug into an already established story, not a story based on the characters you use or something that grows organically based on the universe.

My partner is watching Voyer again. It's the first Star Trek series I've seen start to finish so I have a soft spot for it but god damn does Neelix get on my tits. I find myself spending most scenes he appears in hurling abuse at him. Am I alone in this?
never got the hate for neelix. I mean his whole point is to annoy the crew and offer a "non starfleet" perspective, it never really annoyed me personally. or maybe the character works better than planned, who knows?

I'm in a weirdly opposite situation to you. Other than some barely remembered TNG back when it aired which I watched the odd episode of (all I really remember is an episode where some one-off low-level crewman is living out this weird holodeck fantasy and thinking that was really good at the time. And Data saying "I'm fully equipped" before having sex with a blonde woman. But dabbling in this thread to replenish my sodium levels piqued by curiosity and got me watching Voyager.

I'm curious what you gonna think about it after watching TNG next.
 
will there be a nerd (or someone who can look up shit on a wiki) on the nutrek team? sure, probably an intern or shitty assistant job,
I recall a panel at a con with people who had been involved with adapting capeshit to the movies, and one of them told the story of his friend who was hired by WB/DC to sit in on production meetings for Halle Berry Catwoman and point out concerns about matching the existing IP, and how most of his job was to sit there and watch while they systematically ignored everything he said.
 
So i ended watching after episode 4 because I listened to RLM review about episode 5. WTF?! Star Trek died with Enterprise. TFW a MMO is the closest we have to real Trek that has the name Trek, anyone else play it? I prefer the Romulan storyline personally
So if the Orville was actually part of Star Trek when would it take place? Anyone seen that ad for the space cruise ship that looks like Nu-Trek? It looks bad
 
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This "Lore Reloaded" guy has always been a total sperg, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a lot of his older content. (Especially his breakdowns of various Federation ship classes.) But he has been shilling HARD for Star Trek: Picard lately, to the point where he even made this video just to reee at RLM for their *obviously* comedic take on recent STP episodes. (Yeah, Mike and Rich clearly don't care for STP, but they're also clearly playing their dislike of it up for comedic effect... The increasing ridiculousness of their thumbnails alone should have made that obvious.)
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=8BHvKoVqeuwThis "Lore Reloaded" guy has always been a total sperg, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a lot of his older content. (Especially his breakdowns of various Federation ship classes.) But he has been shilling HARD for Star Trek: Picard lately, to the point where he even made this video just to reee at RLM for their *obviously* comedic take on recent STP episodes. (Yeah, Mike and Rich clearly don't care for STP, but they're also clearly playing their dislike of it up for comedic effect... The increasing ridiculousness of their thumbnails alone should have made that obvious.)
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I’m assuming his response is not actually measured?
 
You know that episode of enterprise where some temporal parasite is in archers brain and leads to him having an alternate timeline life or whatever? Let's just hope Picard has that and it's being cured as we speak.
It's Irrumodic Syndrome. Also, one of the best lines in Enterprise was in that episode when it's revealed that the last Human colony is on Ceti Alpha V.
 
The problem we do run up against is the simple fact that the "Problem of the week" Trek style show of old really doesn't play out as well as it used to. You cannot retell the same story over and over, or the same problems with a slightly different cast or crew. Voyager kind of put paid to that with it's very early bumpy road and tired rehashes of concepts.

They're trying something new and a bit different and I'm certainly enjoying it, but doing the usual "Here's a fan favourite or key charact- Oops, We killed them. Silly us!" is just the usual shitty rage of writers who's own bland 2D characters barely get a look in because they weren't at all memorable. You can smell Kurtzman's stench all over Picard and has some petty revenge fantasies thrown in because turning 7 of 9 into Space Silver Ranger who goes on murder sprees doesn't make a lick of sense to fucking anyone.
 
It's weird that people are so hung up on clear cut episodic vs serial.

Tell a story in one episode. Tell it in five, or ten, or twenty. Hell, take five seasons. Do all of the above in the same series, which Babylon 5 did fantastically. I don't really care, as long as they're telling a good story.

What I'm tired of is being strung along by a season of bullshit cliffhangers, only to be left with a thoroughly boring, trope-filled, half-assed conclusion.
 
What I'm tired of is being strung along by a season of bullshit cliffhangers, only to be left with a thoroughly boring, trope-filled, half-assed conclusion.

Right, exactly. I don't feel like I've seen enough people say this.

Babylon 5 was a 4 year arc (Yeah, 5 seasons, but they wrapped the arc up in 4, really, because they thought they were going to be canceled). But most of the episodes still stood on their own. You could tune in once a week, and still feel like you got a full story for your time. As much as I disliked it, ST:D still mostly managed that. Picard... It really doesn't. I get part of a story, followed by a cliffhanger.
 
I guess there's still a chance for a cameo on The Orville as the first Captain of a Union starship.
Hell have him appear in the Orville as Kirk after being shunted into an alternate universe by that dumb nexus shit in generations. Aint like the trek franchise will look any less dignified by a fucking seth macfarline crossover at this point
 
Sisko and DS9 show how to actual do 'dark' (or more accuratly mature) star trek. While the show engages with realpoltik and morally ambigious situations it's made pretty clear that these are essentially good people who live in on the very borders of a pleasent humaine society.
Also if the Dominion or the cardassian union were to scavange cybernetic from people they'd either kill you or knock you out because having a shrieking writhing prison is really impractical.

I really enjoyed DS9, and while it did tackle wildly different ideas from previous Trek shows, it never felt like it wasn't Star Trek to me. The Federation still felt like The Federation, and Star Fleet still felt like Star Fleet, but we just saw a story set in an area where The Federation's influence and resources were significantly reduced, It felt like the Bajoran government had just as much control over the station as The Federation did...if not more, so the show felt more like a greatest clash of all these different cultures.

This new Trek feels like it is so far removed from what I know to be Star Trek, that I can't accept it unless I look at it as something completely different.
 
I really enjoyed DS9, and while it did tackle wildly different ideas from previous Trek shows, it never felt like it wasn't Star Trek to me. The Federation still felt like The Federation, and Star Fleet still felt like Star Fleet, but we just saw a story set in an area where The Federation's influence and resources were significantly reduced, It felt like the Bajoran government had just as much control over the station as The Federation did...if not more, so the show felt more like a greatest clash of all these different cultures.

This new Trek feels like it is so far removed from what I know to be Star Trek, that I can't accept it unless I look at it as something completely different.
I'm rewatching DS9 and I'm in a weird spot where every other episode is about someone wanting to bang Kira.
 
Hell have him appear in the Orville as Kirk after being shunted into an alternate universe by that dumb nexus shit in generations. Aint like the trek franchise will look any less dignified by a fucking seth macfarline crossover at this point
Have Shatner steal a starship and the Orville has to bring him back and then when they catch him he's taking his best friend's notKatra to his home planet and requests to be be jailed there where the notVulcans will take care of him in gratitude for him going the extra mile for notSpock. Would like to see Shatner doing one more space story but as an old retired captain going "IDGAF I'm doing one more run". At this point The Orville is Roddenberry's Star Trek, the official one is a hot mess.
 
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