Star Wars Expanded Universe Fans/Cultists - I HOPE YOU LIKE STAR WARS AUTISM

[Saney]

Don't they kind of act like that in the movies though?

Well, not really. Cody and Obi-Wan were on pretty good terms, they seemed friendly and comfortable with each other.

 

[RecordStoreToughGuy]

Using an army of cloned people with no free will isn't exactly something good guys do. Just another one of the prequels poorly thought-out ideas.

Even if you do the mental gymnastics and justify it as an example of how out of balance the Force was and how fucked up the Jedi were at the time, it still doesn't feel right. And they could have made more of that idea in the films.

That said, I do like the CW episode where Yoda's pinned down with about five or so troopers, and he's pointing out that even though they're clones, the Force gives them their own distinct personalities. Which kind of makes it worse, now that I think about it.

 

[Red_Rager]

Even if you do the mental gymnastics and justify it as an example of how out of balance the Force was and how fucked up the Jedi were at the time, it still doesn't feel right. And they could have made more of that idea in the films.

That said, I do like the CW episode where Yoda's pinned down with about five or so troopers, and he's pointing out that even though they're clones, the Force gives them their own distinct personalities. Which kind of makes it worse, now that I think about it.

To be fair war can make good people do terrible things. There are things that people normally condemn as evil, but during times of crises consider a necessary evil for continued survival. I'm not saying that the reasoning is just, but that is what people do. The guilt usually comes after all is said and done, and then we have armchair warriors coming in to analyze the hell out of it.

 

[Nom Anor]

The funny thing about all this is the original way the Clone Wars was portrayed in the old EU novels before the prequel trilogy came out avoided most of these semantics. In Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, the Clone Wars was said to be Jedi (and what is assumed to be drafted regular military force for the Republic) defending against a group of people called the "Clone Masters," who had created a horde of clones and attacked the Republic. These clones were largely said to be mindless because they only took 1 year to make and suffered from "clone madness" side-effects due to the "flash memory" processes used. This is why it was such a big deal in the Thrawn Trilogy that Thrawn discovered that if you put ysalamiri (lizard things that "pushed" back the Force, don't ask) around the cloning chambers, it'll reduced the growth time to 15 to 21 days and somehow eliminated the "madness" problem because they were cut off from the Force.

As you may guessed, this was all thrown out the window with the prequel trilogy. Say what you will about things like the ysalamiri that scream fanfiction, but at least Zahn and the original EU writers' setup of the Clone Wars keep the Jedi front and center without having them susceptible to "Traviss' influences" that want to portrayal them as arrogant assholes whenever possible.

 

[Arctic]

LUKE'S ARMS ARE NOT FRICKING BLUE![/obligatory reference]

Now that that's out of the way, I'm not an expert on the EU, but from what I've seen it's indeed just canonized fanfiction, complete with annoying and obvious Mary Sue characters ("Jacen Solo" are you kidding me?). How these people can defend it with such passion is beyond me.

 

[Poor Choices]

How these people can defend it with such passion is beyond me.

Thrawn and Shadows of the Empire are the primary sources I'm almost sure. Those books, while a little overrated, are really good and have been around long enough that they've become a beloved part of the Star Wars story for some of the really invested SW fans. It's a lesser version of someone telling you that RotJ didn't happen; spergs don't take well to that kind of change.

 

[Sanae Kochiya]

Don't they kind of act like that in the movies though? Besides that one time Anakin wants to save the pilots? While it is kind of why I like the Clone Wars, both sides use mass produced armies that only make the fighting worse by removing the human cost of war, I still think she makes a valid point. As Galactic Peacekeepers the Jedi seem too indifferent to the fact that Clones exist to fight and ultimately die without a choice. But Travis is extreme for portraying the Jedi as evil and dumb for using clones when they seem overwhelmed and resigned to their use by necessity and I can see why you dislike her. Vilifying Jedi seems really dumb considering that in all the movies they are obviously heroes and generally good people.

That's more attributed to the fact that the prequel trilogy is very shoddily written.

I actually sorta kinda liked the recent Clone Wars cartoon on CN since, while the animation is kinda weird at times, the writing wasn't that bad and it was at least a good way to kill time. That cartoon also showed the Jedi and the clones in a more friendly light, since both were pretty friendly with each other. I remember that some other derivative works of the prequel trilogy like Battlefront 2 also paint the Jedi-Clone relationship as fairly amicable.

 

[Bluce Wee]

The funny thing about all this is the original way the Clone Wars was portrayed in the old EU novels before the prequel trilogy came out avoided most of these semantics. In Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, the Clone Wars was said to be Jedi (and what is assumed to be drafted regular military force for the Republic) defending against a group of people called the "Clone Masters," who had created a horde of clones and attacked the Republic. These clones were largely said to be mindless because they only took 1 year to make and suffered from "clone madness" side-effects due to the "flash memory" processes used. This is why it was such a big deal in the Thrawn Trilogy that Thrawn discovered that if you put ysalamiri (lizard things that "pushed" back the Force, don't ask) around the cloning chambers, it'll reduced the growth time to 15 to 21 days and somehow eliminated the "madness" problem because they were cut off from the Force.

As you may guessed, this was all thrown out the window with the prequel trilogy. Say what you will about things like the ysalamiri that scream fanfiction, but at least Zahn and the original EU writers' setup of the Clone Wars keep the Jedi front and center without having them susceptible to "Traviss' influences" that want to portrayal them as arrogant assholes whenever possible.

Zahn said in an interview or in a Reddit AMA or something that he was allowed to refer to the Clone Wars (since they were mentioned in the original movies), but had to leave it very vague. I believe the 20th Anniversary edition of the books were modified to refer to the Clone Wars as we now know them, per the prequels.

 

[exball]

Well, not really. Cody and Obi-Wan were on pretty good terms, they seemed friendly and comfortable with each other.

You know, until he shot him without question.

Don't they kind of act like that in the movies though? Besides that one time Anakin wants to save the pilots? While it is kind of why I like the Clone Wars, both sides use mass produced armies that only make the fighting worse by removing the human cost of war, I still think she makes a valid point. As Galactic Peacekeepers the Jedi seem too indifferent to the fact that Clones exist to fight and ultimately die without a choice. But Travis is extreme for portraying the Jedi as evil and dumb for using clones when they seem overwhelmed and resigned to their use by necessity and I can see why you dislike her. Vilifying Jedi seems really dumb considering that in all the movies they are obviously heroes and generally good people.

This is made worse by the fact that most of the time, clones are portrayed as very human. Especially in some of the clone wars episodes and Republic Commando. They tend to have real emotions and different personalities. Travis would make a good point if it weren't for the fact that she's only angry because clones are basically Mandalorians.

 

[Meowthkip]

It's movies, Clone Wars, Rebels, but I'm pretty sure not specials. Otherwise, those Ewok movies would be canon too.

You mean they're not?

 

[Bluce Wee]

"There are barely any contradictions in the EU, guys! Everything just flows nicely "

Sorry, I just watched that now. And what? "They say that there are contradictions, but never mention them" five seconds before he says that there are contradictions...and never mentions what they are. He then says the Guide acknowledges contradictions, but it's still the "haters fault" for not mentioning contradictions?

I mean, fuck, I googled "Star Wars EU contradictions" and found this: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=163131.

The more I think about it, the more I'm happy they're cutting the fat and starting over. As I mentioned a couple of pages back, it was getting kinda silly and I wouldn't mind reading some new books without Vong weirdness and all that crap. The old ones are still there - just call them an alternate timeline and go with it. Doctor Who fans do it all the time. Plus, I just want these new movies to be *good* and if that means it doesn't have to shove itself into the weird holes created by the EU, then good. The prequels were disappointing beyond belief and I'd love for there to be more than 3 (4 if stretched) good Star Wars movies.

 

[SuperSheep]

It's ridiculous exaggeration like that, and this:



That make me think we should have a thread about Fandalorians. Not to mention the fact that Traviss mentioned that she wanted to garrotte her critics and that she threw the term "Talifan" around a lot. Again, to describe her critics.

From what I hear, some of her critics were lunatics themselves. One of them had gone so far as to make a video of himself attacking her and murdering her fans because of an argument over her clone troop numbers, while others were cheering him on.

Despite the fact that those clone troop numbers effectively predated Traviss' article by 3 years.

Not to say she doesn't deserve a lot of flak, but I think the reason she was able to get away with a lot of crap that she did was because the Star Wars higher-ups felt sorry she bore the brunt of a psychotic subgroup and tried to compensate her, not realizing what they were getting themselves into.

 

[Nom Anor]

Sorry, I just watched that now. And what? "They say that there are contradictions, but never mention them" five seconds before he says that there are contradictions...and never mentions what they are. He then says the Guide acknowledges contradictions, but it's still the "haters fault" for not mentioning contradictions?

I mean, fuck, I googled "Star Wars EU contradictions" and found this: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=163131.

The more I think about it, the more I'm happy they're cutting the fat and starting over. As I mentioned a couple of pages back, it was getting kinda silly and I wouldn't mind reading some new books without Vong weirdness and all that crap. The old ones are still there - just call them an alternate timeline and go with it. Doctor Who fans do it all the time. Plus, I just want these new movies to be *good* and if that means it doesn't have to shove itself into the weird holes created by the EU, then good. The prequels were disappointing beyond belief and I'd love for there to be more than 3 (4 if stretched) good Star Wars movies.

That user gets worse in later videos, where he expects his fellow spergs to make videos on how the EU fixes "important" holes in the main films. The video he then makes is using one page from an EU novel to explain the age difference between characters who were in both the Prequel and Original Trilogies. Because...you know...the average movie-goer with only a bit of common sense wouldn't realize that trying to age-sync actors from the 70s and actors from the 00s who played the same characters is near impossible.

And of course, you have Matt Wilkins in the comments section pretending he's the Mr.Enter of the Star Wars EU spergs. It's rather sad.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Meowthkip]

That user gets worse in later videos, where he expects his fellow spergs to make videos on how the EU fixes "important" holes in the main films. The video he then makes is using one page from an EU novel to explain the age difference between characters who were in both the Prequel and Original Trilogies. Because...you know...the average movie-goer with only a bit of common sense wouldn't realize that trying to age-sync actors from the 70s and actors from the 00s who played the same characters is near impossible.

And of course, you have Matt Wilkins in the comments section pretending he's the Mr.Enter of the Star Wars EU spergs. It's rather sad.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Quick, everybody talk about how great the Ewok movies are!

Wilford Brimley deserves his place in the Star Wars universe.

Also, the reason why Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru and Obi Wan were so old-looking 20 years later is because George Lucas didn't think about that and he made shit up as he went along, not giving a fuck if it made any sense.

 

[Nom Anor]

Also, I guess Matt Wilkins hasn't read any of type of sci-fi stories that involve alien invasions, because he claims the Vong are "better than anything he's seen before."

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/en6w1lq.png

 

[Bluce Wee]

Also, I guess Matt Wilkins hasn't read any of type of sci-fi stories that involve alien invasions, because he claims the Vong are "better than anything he's seen before."

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/en6w1lq.png

The Vong were named after a fucking Chinese restaurant and just scream "edgy teenage black and blood and torture and pain are cool" bullshit. I mean, I understand why they're so weird - in a galaxy of aliens, you need your threat seem truly alien - but please. Some of the Vong scenes are basically torture porn and they were so overpowered in the plot (immune to the Force AND super awesome special ships that are hard to shoot down? Really?) and it just didn't feel like Star Wars.

That and the whole implication that the Emperor/Thrawn were doing their thing to "unify the galaxy" in the face of the Vong just pissed all over the movies and the books that came after it and before the NJO.

 

[DykesDykesChina]

I just found this.

Spoiler

 

[A Random]

...

dafuq

wat

 

[Saney]

You know, until he shot him without question.

Yes, because he was ordered to. Their first loyalty was to Palpatine, it didn't matter how friendly the clones were with their Jedi. The clones were always supposed to be Palpatine's army, not the Republic's and not the Jedi's, of course they'd be completely loyal to him.

From what I hear, some of her critics were lunatics themselves. One of them had gone so far as to make a video of himself attacking her and murdering her fans because of an argument over her clone troop numbers, while others were cheering him on.

Despite the fact that those clone troop numbers effectively predated Traviss' article by 3 years.

You're right she didn't make those numbers, but the problem is, she started making up stupid excuses to justify them, such as saying that the clones have a 200 to 1 kill ratio, the Clone Wars was actually a series of small brush wars or that Palpatine, the Jedi and the Spearatists were working together to hide the true number of Separatists forces.

 

[SuperSheep]

You're right she didn't make those numbers, but the problem is, she started making up stupid excuses to justify them, such as saying that the clones have a 200 to 1 kill ratio, the Clone Wars was actually a series of small brush wars or that Palpatine, the Jedi and the Spearatists were working together to hide the true number of Separatists forces.

Well, part of the problem was that the guy that came up with the droid numbers ignored the fact that his figures were a million times bigger than the Republic itself. Unfortunately, Star Wars writers are supposed to mesh things when contradictions came up, but this was one that was too insurmountable, even if they had a better writer, and we instead got Traviss having to fill in the gaps. We saw how badly that went.