Star Wars Expanded Universe Fans/Cultists - I HOPE YOU LIKE STAR WARS AUTISM

[Tsukasa Kadoya]

My favorite bits of EU lore are from the Jedi Knight games. Kyle Katarn is such a badass, and the idea of seeing Luke grow his new Jedi Order and not become a cucked loser who tried to kill his own nephew.
But sadly, the idea of Kyle gunning down everyone to get the Death Star plans had to be replaced by the only decent canon movie. As much as I don't dislike Rogue One, I do hate how it erased Kyle and Jan.

Spoiler: Heresy Ahead

Outcast < Academy

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

My favorite bits of EU lore are from the Jedi Knight games. Kyle Katarn is such a badass, and the idea of seeing Luke grow his new Jedi Order and not become a cucked loser who tried to kill his own nephew.
But sadly, the idea of Kyle gunning down everyone to get the Death Star plans had to be replaced by the only decent canon movie. As much as I don't dislike Rogue One, I do hate how it erased Kyle and Jan.

To my knowledge, there were plenty of stories of retrieving the Death Star plans that the EU retconned things to basically say that Kyle just stole a part of the plan, and Palpatine in Empire at War even says that he doesn't keep the whole schematic in one place.

Spoiler: Heresy Ahead

Outcast < Academy

That isn't heresy. It's truth. Jedi Academy is just basically a revised, improved version of Jedi Outcast. Too bad it's too short.

 

[White Devil]

I always forget this thread exists and that I'm following it until you post with more bullshit proving you haven't read any of the EU.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I always forget this thread exists and that I'm following it until you post with more bullshit proving you haven't read any of the EU.

LOL I read more of the EU than you, obviously. More than enough to criticize it where it went wrong.

@Ishtar
Sorry for the delayed reply, but I just had to respond to this. Ignore it if it suits you.

This doesn't follow. The NR explicitly was not militarized, to the point smugglers were running wild and brushfire conflicts were erupting in the outer rim. The NR had a core professional military that grew during the war.

Which makes no sense. In the Thrawn Trilogy, both the NR and the Empire had equal forces, as Han Solo outright says at the start, and both of them each had one half of the galaxy to themselves. As the Empire continued to weaken during the media that took place after the Thrawn Trilogy, such as the Dark Empire comics and Jedi Knight games, the NR only got stronger and stronger, to the point of becoming a superpower, while the Empire rotted away to become a small junta state.

You do remember the Vong terraformed loads of planets to their liking and made a point of specifically targeting refugees? The death toll from Vong occupation, direct killing, as well as having your planet turned into an alien jungle and being eaten by extragalactic wildlife would have resulted in gigantic civilian casualties.

Which should have galvanized the political class of the NR to unite behind the Jedi and rally the galaxy for the war effort instead of trying to compromise or negotiate with the Vong. Fey'lya shouldn't be trying to shaft the Jedi as they were trying to fight the Vong, he should be pretending to back the Jedi in the war while trying to get the Vong and the Jedi to kill each other, rather than trying obstruct the Jedi's attempts to stop the Vong threat. You'd think a power-hungry asshole would use the trappings of war to gain more power while conveniently using his position and resources to get his political rivals killed.

I don't think you realize the scale here. This is a galaxy, and there have been alien incursions occasionally in the past twenty years IU. Billions of refugees is a massive number to us, but in a galaxy of quadrillions, its not that important. You also remember Borsk Fey'la treated the Vong as something of a jedi instigated problem(as in it didn't benefit his career or political prospects).

Governments reacting slowly or sluggishly is not some wild anomaly even in RL. A peacetime government that isn't run by the most selfless of politicians with quadrillions of people under has to be hit in the face to notice you.

And that's the problem. If Borsk Fey'lya was written by a half-competent author, he'd use those billions being displaced as a war cry to centralize more power under himself. He'd be calling the galaxy to war and pretending to be friends with the Jedi while using the war as a way to gain more and more power for the executive office-all the while using his power as the NR Chief of State and the Bothan Spynet to try and position the Vong leaders and the Jedi knights to kill each other, so that when the war is over, neither the Jedi nor the Vong can stop him from amassing more power. He'd go full Littlefinger, using the chaos of the war to climb the ladder of authority and ascend to greater heights of power.

Uh dude, the NR is more like a confederation. Most member worlds are pretty much independent. It didn't become the lean federalized machine until Jacen was kicking in doors with the boys in black. Decentralized Republics tend to react slower to crises. The NR is not America, it doesn't have that sort of reach or cultural unity. You do recall, there was a near eruption of civil war due to the Caamasi crisis on the eve of the end of the GCW? Its a galactic confederation that is loosely under one government, with large stretches of space that have never seen an NR soldier or X-Wing.

Er, what history have you been reading, because that is not how the real world works. Decentralized republics have no problems appointing dictators to get rid of problems. Rome used to do it all the time, and even the United States of America itself used to be a decentralized republic with states each being independent nations unto themselves, until the Civil War threatened to tear apart the fabric of the nation and America made a hurried dash to becoming a federal republic. That, and the New Republic started off as a centralized military known as the Rebel Alliance. So the idea of a central authority in the middle of a war shouldn't be all that alien to them, since they were a united force when the Empire was still at full strength.

The Corellians had been preparing for independence for years. That's the point of Centerpoint(pun not intended) its basically a guarantor if active of Corellian security and independence. It had already tried to break away once and had a very anti authoritarian and independent culture. Taxes, being required to submit to federalization in terms of security forces, etc... and you get men like Thrackan and well nationalism(in basically space Texas).

After what happened with the Yuuzhan Vong War, a spat between Corellia and Coruscant wouldn't even make the headlines. You'd have an entire galaxy filled with people who want the Vong massacred down to the last man Anakin Skywalker style, and the main struggle of that era should've been to get the rest of the galaxy to accept the Alliance's decision to make peace with what was left of the Yuuzhan Vong. The Coruscant-Corellia conflict would basically be small potatoes when compared to an entire galaxy still not having gotten over the Vong killing 365 trillion people in 4 years. More races would've followed the Bothans' example and sent fleets to eradicate the Vong, while the GA would face riots from their own citizens who won't rest until every last Vong is either dead or in chains.

 

[White Devil]

LOL I read more of the EU than you, obviously. More than enough to criticize it where it went wrong.

I physically own everything from Jedi Prince series to Fate of the Jedi and all the Marvel and Dark Horse comics in between. You've been outed several times as not knowing shit because you only browse Wookiepedo.

Literally kill yourself because you bring nothing to any discussion except cancer.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I physically own everything from Jedi Prince series to Fate of the Jedi and all the Marvel and Dark Horse comics in between. You've been outed several times as not knowing shit because you only browse Wookiepedo.

Literally kill yourself because you bring nothing to any discussion except cancer.

And yet you can't even spot the flaws. There's a difference between owning a book and actually reading it.

There's a difference to how something like the Darth Bane trilogy is written, and how LOTF is written. One is a masterpiece written by a guy who knows what he's doing and keeps everything consistent, the other is basically an argument as to why having ''too many cooks in the kitchen'' is a stupid thing to do with a book series.

One moment, Traviss hypes up the Mandos as the third wheel between the Jedi and the Sith, with Boba Fett espousing the wisdom of the Mandalorians to a bewildered Jaina Solo. Then Denning has them die like a joke against Caedus. Meanwhile, Drew Karpyshyn keeps Darth Bane's journey a consistent one, as an inverse to Revan's journey back to the Jedi.

Go home, kiddo. The EU isn't one big fat monolyth; there's good stuff in there, and there's bad stuff in there. I'm sure your petulant bitching about The Force Unleashed taught you that there are just parts of the EU that some people can't jive with.

It's just that with me in particular, NJO just makes no fucking sense, especially when a corrupt politician like Fey'lya allowed the mother of all political opportunities to slip past his fingers just to tell the Jedi to go fuck themselves. I mean, political demagogues amassing more power in the name of public safety during a crisis or a war isn't necessarily a new story when NJO started. You'd think that a power-hungry politician like Borsk would be able to take a species that's as butt-ugly and vicious as the Yuuzhan Vong and use them as the excuse as to why he should have more power to keep the galaxy safe, and why the Jedi should fall in line and follow his orders.

When you strip away the edgy dark shit from NJO, the plot is basically your Saturday Morning cartoon story where the bad guys are mustache-twirling sadistic assholes 9 times out of 10, and the political opposition to the hero is just written to be an asshole without a single logical thought in his head. It's so funny when NJO defenders act like it's something deep, when the structure and essence of the plot is rather basic, at best, to the point where some characters act so illogical. The Vong lose to a weakened New Republic and the tiny remnants of the once proud Empire; which means that if the good guys had their shit together from the start, the plot wouldn't exist. NJO only happens as a story because the New Republic at that stage has all the brains of a used tampon.

A real scumbag politician in charge of the New Republic would look at the Yuuzhan Vong, look at how they're screwing people over and destroying things, and use that as an excuse to amass power and have everyone fall in line to create a unified front against the invaders. All the while, playing the Uriah game with the Jedi to get rid of them by having them lead the war effort and fixing things so that they'll die, while dealing enough damage to the Vong to the point where the Vong would also be crippled. Like say, by using the Bothan spynet and the position of NR Chief of State to line up the Jedi Knights to fight against the top Vong warlords and operatives, setting up scenarios where they both bite the dust, leaving the NR Chief of State as the true winner of the war.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

People claiming that Disney is being "lazy" and "all about profits" when they chose not to follow over 20 years of a clusterfuck of lore.

About 8 years later, it looks like they may have been onto something.

But what should've happened is good movies made to replace the EU CF.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

About 8 years later, it looks like they may have been onto something.

But what should've happened is good movies made to replace the EU CF.

Instead of taking the good bits and ironing out the bad ones, they took the bits that people panned, like Dark Empire and Legacy of the Force, and made them even shoddier.

TFA is Legacy of the Force, except with MaRey Sue.
TLJ is a bad attempt at making KOTOR 2 for SJWs by tearing down the one character everyone loved-Luke.
RoS is Dark Empire done by a meth-addled monkey.

But hey, at least the Mandalorians in the Mando show and TCW are nowhere near as shit as Karen Traviss' army of Mary Sues who could do no wrong.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It really, really is. You ever read Legacy of the Force? It's terrible, it really is, it's just a mess from start to finish. The worst parts though, are the books written by Traviss, where the plot just repeatedly stops dead so she can awkwardly shoehorn in Fett and the Mandalorians, because they're just so relevant when you're writing a series about Han's kid turning Sith. In the last book she wrote in that series, Han's other kid goes to see Fett because apparently, he's killed more Jedi than anyone...yeah. So, we get some more awkwardly shoehorned Fett and Mando culture, which is primarily focused on Jedi bashing.

And don't get me started on Republic Commando.

It seems to me that the people most bummed out about the EU canon wipe were fans of video games like KOTOR, Jedi Knight, Rogue Squadron, TIE Fighter, Force Unleashed, and other SWEU works that tried to keep their works consistent with the spirit of the movies or tried to branch out and do something substantial or profound. Whereas people who have done nothing but read books, especially the books that take place after Dark Empire onwards, or books by Karen Traviss, they seem to be the most on board when it comes to a canon wipe, because their last memories of the SWEU are Fandalorian-bait BS, gore-porn aliens fighting a New Republic led by dumbasses, Han's son Jacen turning evil for even less valid reasons than Anakin did, and Mara Jade getting stuffed in the fridge like she's some third-rate love interest for some comic book hero.

In essence, the latter's experience with SWEU works is basically bad capeshit tropes transferred onto SW novels, and bad capeshit usually ends with a canon wipe or a reset because the authors wrote themselves into a corner. Whereas the former are bummed out because they really had fun times with Revan, Kyle Katarn, Starkiller, and other SW video game characters, and they don't like being told that stuff isn't canon anymore. But I can understand why both sides think the way they do, and I can empathize with both. It sucks that Revan isn't canon anymore, but booting Traviss' bullshit from the canon, as well as wiping NJO and LOTF from the SW story, is an idea that most SWEU fans would be on board with.

 

[Chickin BBQ]

The autism in this thread makes my peepee tingle.

Courtship of Princess Leia and Splinter of the Mind's Eye are the best books, fight me.

Spoiler

I'm just here for the pulp space fantasy, thanks

 

[Post Reply]

It seems to me that the people most bummed out about the EU canon wipe were fans of video games like KOTOR, Jedi Knight, Rogue Squadron, TIE Fighter, Force Unleashed, and other SWEU works that tried to keep their works consistent with the spirit of the movies or tried to branch out and do something substantial or profound.

I'm mostly in this category. Loved Jedi Knight, Rebel Assault, the TIE Fighters, Etc. I also enjoyed the 90s era literature like the Zahn books, those silly Tales Of... books, the Han/Lando adventures, Rogue Squadron. Some of it doesn't hold up so well when reread as an adult, but it was still a fun part of my childhood.

After that though, the books started to progress farther and farther from the time period of the movies, and they did weirder and weirder things with the setting like having those WH40k aliens invade the galaxy. I very quickly lost interest and moved on to reading other things. Not sorry to see that shit go, but it is a bummer that they replaced the adventures of my childhood with complete slop. Luckily I can still pirate the audio books and ebooks without supporting Disney.

Oh, and Karen Travis wrote the clone trooper books didn't she? I remember reading one of those and thinking the author was way more into the characters than I was. Gave a weird vibe.

 

[Quarterback Rex Grossman]

Oh, and Karen Travis wrote the clone trooper books didn't she? I remember reading one of those and thinking the author was way more into the characters than I was. Gave a weird vibe.

Her OC Jedi was a self-insert who got knocked up by a clone, hated her own kind, and eventually became a Mando. The cult that grew up around Traviss was hilarious though; if she hadn't quit over some canon bullshit in the cartoon she would probably be running Star Wars with Filoni right now.

 

[Grub]

Fuck Disney for ending the dark horse comics. I don't really read comics, but I read through a bunch of the dark horse star wars comics and I was hooked. It reminded me of when I played Kotor as a kid and was introduced to the idea of star wars stories set long before the movies. I didn't even realize star wars had such a built up and detailed fan canon until I started looking up the comics and got lost on wookiepedia for a while.

I can't remember which ones, I know the one about the first Jedi set like 10,000 years in the past or something and a couple other ones I started reading just ended abruptly with the message 'sorry guys, Disney bought star wars and gave the comics to marvel so you'll never read the end of this story.' It pissed me off so much. I already kind of hated marvel comics and Disney as it was that shit was pretty much when I started actively hoping Disney would somehow fail and go bankrupt.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The autism in this thread makes my peepee tingle.

Courtship of Princess Leia and Splinter of the Mind's Eye are the best books, fight me.

I actually love Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Granted, I don't think it's the best book, I'd say my favorites were the Thrawn Trilogy, Luceno's PT books, and the Darth Bane books, but Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a solid entry. Not bad for a dud script for a throwaway sequel in case ANH bombed.......

I certainly would've loved to see Vader toss around more lightning like he did in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. I never liked the idea from the EU that he can't use lightning because of prosthetics; the Sith are the kind of people who would find a way around that, like say, summon energy from outside the suit and then turn it into lightning, or make a suit with specially-designed prosthetic arms that allow him to shoot lightning. I liked it when the EP3 game gave him Force Lightning, and when his cameo in Soul Calibur 4 gave him red energy blasts like a shonen villain.

I'm mostly in this category. Loved Jedi Knight, Rebel Assault, the TIE Fighters, Etc.

Most people who love the EU to this day started their EU journey from video games. I sure as fuck did, then I progressed to the comics and novels.

I also enjoyed the 90s era literature like the Zahn books, those silly Tales Of... books, the Han/Lando adventures, Rogue Squadron. Some of it doesn't hold up so well when reread as an adult, but it was still a fun part of my childhood.

Yes, most of those books should belong in the YA section, but most of them are still solid entries.

After that though, the books started to progress farther and farther from the time period of the movies, and they did weirder and weirder things with the setting like having those WH40k aliens invade the galaxy. I very quickly lost interest and moved on to reading other things. Not sorry to see that shit go, but it is a bummer that they replaced the adventures of my childhood with complete slop.

It was basically them copying bad capeshit trends in the late 90s and early 2000s, from amping up threats to colossal proportions, to good guys turning bad and female characters getting stuffed in the fridge. Seriously, compare the death and return of Superman and the Reign of the Supermen to the NJO and LOTF novels, and it's eerie how they have a lot of things in common. The Vong are the SW equivalent to Doomsday in DC comics, the Zerg in Starcraft, or the Tyranids in 40K. Jacen Solo going bad and killing his allies reminds me of the Green Lantern going nuts and killing his comrades during the Reign of the Supermen arc.

Mara Jade getting killed to amp up the stakes is such a betrayal of EU readers, especially since a lot of them began their EU journey with her, only to have her get killed by a bargain-bin version of ROTS Anakin who has even less reasons to turn to the Dark Side than his grand-father did just to amp up the stakes for a plot nobody gave a shit about. It's basically the SW equivalent of stuffing a woman in the fridge; essentially a comic trope where you kill off a main character's love interest, in this case, Luke's wife Mara Jade, just to amp up the stakes. That was something Lucas was very much against when crafting the OT; his directors wanted him to kill off a character like Han or Yoda to raise the stakes, Lucas disagreed because he wanted kids to feel happy watching his movies. Looks like the LOTF writers didn't get that memo.

Oh, and Karen Travis wrote the clone trooper books didn't she? I remember reading one of those and thinking the author was way more into the characters than I was. Gave a weird vibe.

God have mercy, those books were a waste of time. Especially when you read the Republic comics, and the clones and Jedi get along very well, almost as if Traviss' books were a pile of hogwash that the other EU writers for the PT era didn't agree with.

Her OC Jedi was a self-insert who got knocked up by a clone, hated her own kind, and eventually became a Mando. The cult that grew up around Traviss was hilarious though; if she hadn't quit over some canon bullshit in the cartoon she would probably be running Star Wars with Filoni right now.

That was because Lucas made the good Mandalorians in the TCW cartoon into pacifists, while the warrior Mandos were made into Wahhabi-style terrorists; Karen Traviss quit in protest, although Filoni is carrying out her wishes, since he's made the Mandalorians into a mainstay of SW again, turning them into the honorable warriors Karen Traviss once wanted them to be, and some of the later TCW episodes under Filoni made criticisms of the Jedi into a mainstream thing.

The more power Filoni had over the cartoons, the more he made the warrior/pacifist Mando split into nothing, as he rewrote the Mandalorian warriors into good guys, especially in the Rebels cartoon and the Mandalorian show, even though the early seasons of TCW under Lucas canonically established that the Mandalorian warriors into unabashed terrorists who kill for fun and sport. The creator of Star Wars defined these guys as blood knights who kill for the sake of killing, something that is in line with Tales of the Jedi and KOTOR, but the Mando-fans didn't like that definition, Filoni and Traviss very much included, so they re-wrote the Mandalorians as warrior heroes who are noble and pure, while slowly trying to deflect the heat on to the Jedi instead.

Fuck Disney for ending the dark horse comics. I don't really read comics, but I read through a bunch of the dark horse star wars comics and I was hooked. It reminded me of when I played Kotor as a kid and was introduced to the idea of star wars stories set long before the movies. I didn't even realize star wars had such a built up and detailed fan canon until I started looking up the comics and got lost on wookiepedia for a while.

I can't remember which ones, I know the one about the first Jedi set like 10,000 years in the past or something and a couple other ones I started reading just ended abruptly with the message 'sorry guys, Disney bought star wars and gave the comics to marvel so you'll never read the end of this story.' It pissed me off so much. I already kind of hated marvel comics and Disney as it was that shit was pretty much when I started actively hoping Disney would somehow fail and go bankrupt.

Dawn of the Jedi. Those are the comics you refer to. They were pretty cool, I admit. But they're an off-shoot of the KOTOR brand, showing how the Rakatan Empire from KOTOR was like during the height of its power, and what the ancient Jedi did to fight them. Apparently the Flesh Raiders in SWTOR were remnants of the Rakatan armies that besieged the ancient Jedi Temple there.

 

[Chickin BBQ]

To clarify LORD "the failing autism" IMPERATOR's post, I'm fairly sure he's referring to KOTOR - the 1994 omnibus comic book, which was a collection of the "Tales of the Jedi" series, not the 2003 Bioware game, or the 2006 comic of the same name.

Series is better known as Tales of the Jedi my nibbur.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

To clarify LORD "the failing autism" IMPERATOR's post, I'm fairly sure he's referring to KOTOR - the 1994 omnibus comic book, which was a collection of the "Tales of the Jedi" series, not the 2003 Bioware game, or the 2006 comic of the same name.

Series is better known as Tales of the Jedi my nibbur.

No, I was talking about the 2003 game. That was where the Rakatans first appeared. The Rakatans were the bad guys in Dawn of the Jedi. There were no Rakatans in the Tales of the Jedi comics.

 

[Dona Morte]

I am not sure if this is the correct thread but here is some Star Wars drama.
There seems to be drama popping off with a bunch of jealous cunts going after other YouTube creators.
They even wrote a manifesto:


To loop theory into is simply LAUGHABLE. He is the most even handed and reasonable person in the Star Wars fandom.
Stupendous Wave also responded:


Apparently Ecks Ladder is also involved too. The two men met and Ecks asked him how much money he made so Ecks decided to befriend Molly part of the group that wants to demonetize Geeks and Gamers.
They own a channel called StarWars Explained.

Theory read some emails.

This is Moly's Tweet:

 

[thhrang]

I am not sure if this is the correct thread but here is some Star Wars drama.
There seems to be drama popping off with a bunch of jealous cunts going after other YouTube creators.
They even wrote a manifesto:
View attachment 6395690

To loop theory into is simply LAUGHABLE. He is the most even handed and reasonable person in the Star Wars fandom.
Stupendous Wave also responded:
View attachment 6395715
View attachment 6395727
Apparently Ecks Ladder is also involved too. The two men met and Ecks asked him how much money he made so Ecks decided to befriend Molly part of the group that wants to demonetize Geeks and Gamers.
They own a channel called StarWars Explained.
View attachment 6395728
Theory read some emails.
View attachment 6395749
This is Moly's Tweet:
View attachment 6395753
View attachment 6395755View attachment 6395757

Was coming here to post this myself, glad someone else already has.

Spoiler: Local Archive of Theory's Video

 

[TV's Adam West]

Remember when Phantom Menace was the worst we thought it would get?

 

[Golden Boy]

I only know of star wars theory because RLM mentioned him and I can’t tell if he’s black or italian.

The manifesto is super incompetent. It starts out by talking out milo and ghostbusters, which is like 8 year old garbage not even tangentially related. It then talks about things off site with no proof. They gave a reference section with no timestamps, page numbers, or anything. None of the references are even referenced in the document.