Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Four? Last I checked there were three Indiana Jones movies: Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, and Last Crusade.

Crystal Skull honestly isn't /that/ bad. It's no Temple of Doom but it does have its moments.

 

[Screamer_2]

Crystal Skull is one of those films where I actually think I could have been an executive at a studio and given pretty simple notes during production to have turned it into a much better film. I know that didn't work with the Spielberg of it all but basic things like, "Don't show the Alien at area 51" or "don't have Marion confidently drive the car off the cliff, have it be desperation" or cut the Alien from Cate Blanchet, just show her reacting."

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

I love having to enter a ballot to win a chance to go down to London to go see one of the three 1977 reels of Star Wars...

 

[Ghostse]

Crystal Skull is one of those films where I actually think I could have been an executive at a studio and given pretty simple notes during production to have turned it into a much better film. I know that didn't work with the Spielberg of it all but basic things like, "Don't show the Alien at area 51" or "don't have Marion confidently drive the car off the cliff, have it be desperation" or cut the Alien from Cate Blanchet, just show her reacting."

Crystal Skull was such a fucking mess that it would be hard to make changes and NOT improve it.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

I also know that the ISD has more guns, but that it wasn't that well implemented in games. That was the point. We see it is shooting at the Tantive IV with something, but its not its main weaponry.

What most people and especially game studios forget Imperial Star Destroyers do have guns on their ventral [bottom] side. Although much fewer when compared to their dorsal [top] side. Tantive IV was flying where only the forward guns in the center trench and ventral side had the firing arcs to hit it.
Ventral weapon emplacements are on the terrace sides and along the centerline.

Spoiler

Afaik only the Venator SDs, for reasons, is completely weaponless on their ventral sides.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

What's sad about the Mouse content overshadowing the original lore is that, people lose sight of the original lore and the purpose of everything behind it.

Take for example, the Dark Troopers. While most lore nuts like you and me remember heavily-armored robot dudes with plasma cannons, arc casters, or blaster shotguns that can easily ice you if you're not careful, what most people remember is them kidnapping Baby Yoda and smacking around Din Djarin like it was the Mountain vs. the Red Viper 2: Electric Space Boogaloo. Then there was them punching down the doors and getting lightsabered by Luke Skywalker.

This, of course, led to people wondering what their real military use is, outside of looking tough:

Which of course, shows that they forgot how the Dark Troopers originally blasted their way into the Star Wars universe:

The Dark Troopers were originally blitzkrieg units. You have an entire city with a fortified, shielded rebel base, blasted into rubble in a matter of minutes. If the regular Imperial army decided to besiege Tak base, they'd have to fight through the city of Talay, engage in some brutal street-to-street fighting, and get through a shielded barricade before burning down Tak Base. That would've taken hours, maybe even days, before Tak Base fell, and the cost would've been dozens, hundreds, or maybe even thousands of Imperials dead, before the base fell into the Empire's hands.

But instead, the Dark Troopers penetrated the rebels' shielded barricade, laid siege to the base, and butchered the rebels inside, as well as any possible rebel sympathizers in the city, with minimal casualties on the Imperial side, if there were any at all. By the time you make it to Tak Base, aside from the local Imperial garrison, all you see are buildings that have been blow open, and the burned corpses of what used to be the rebels there:



That is a potent message to all who oppose the Empire. The fact that this came right after the Death Star was destroyed went to show that the Empire wasn't fucking around; that even though their greatest weapon and the Emperor's most valued lieutenant were both space dust thanks to a lucky shot, the Empire can easily strike back with a new weapon, and the enemies of the Empire aren't safe.

But that's not what the people remember now. Unless they all played the Dark Forces game or its remaster that came out last year, their memory of the Dark Trooper is just that robot that manhandled Mando; a cute little fight, but not much in the way of military sense. They forgot that the original Dark Troopers carried large plasma cannons while zipping around the battlefield with jetpacks:

Mobility, heavy armor, and extreme firepower allowed these Dark Troopers to decimate a rebel base and the nearby city in record time, as Mon Mothma described that the battle was finished within minutes. The main point of making super-strong robots for battle is that you can have them carry heavy artillery as if it were a common blaster rifle, and the jetpacks allow them to zip around the battlefield as a highly mobile version of an artillery unit, essentially giving you a unit that can hit as hard as a tank, can take punishment like a tank, but it moves faster than the most mobile infantry units, thereby making them a nigh-unstoppable threat to all but the most heavily-armed opponents.

I get the distinct impression that if the original Dark Troopers showed up in the Mandalorian, or if the new Mando versions of the Dark Troopers had these plasma cannons, the fight would've been horribly one-sided, and Mando and his friends would've either wound up dead or in Moff Gideon's dungeons somewhere deep in the Mines of Mandalore, getting tortured by the sadistic Moff, either for information or for his own twisted pleasure.

They probably cut the plasma cannons and gave the Dark troopers regular blasters to balance things out and give Mando a fighting chance. But in doing so, they made the Dark Troopers look irrational in terms of a military operation, with people asking why the Empire would spend so much money creating that kind of tough robot while just giving it a regular blaster. At least the Confederacy stuck a rocket launcher into the arms of a B2 Super Battle Droid. And those were just mass-produced mook droids that the Confederacy sent off to die in droves.

What most people and especially game studios forget Imperial Star Destroyers do have guns on their ventral [bottom] side. Although much fewer when compared to their dorsal [top] side. Tantive IV was flying where only the forward guns in the center trench and ventral side had the firing arcs to hit it.
Ventral weapon emplacements are on the terrace sides and along the centerline.

Spoiler

View attachment 7209077

Afaik only the Venator SDs, for reasons, is completely weaponless on their ventral sides.

That's because Venators are mostly aircraft carriers, whereas ISDs are made as battlecruisers for slugging matches. The previous Star Destroyer model was the Acclamator, and it's basically just a glorified Space U-Haul for soldiers with some guns stuck on it, hence the name Acclamator-class Troop Transport.

You have to realize that the Republic was slowly re-entering a militarization phase after 1000 years of pacifism and letting local militaries handle things. The Republic's idea of a dreadnought-class heavy cruiser is less than 1000 meters long. To compare that with the Empire, the Empire's dreadnoughts are ships like the Eclipse-class, which is 17 kilometers long, or the Executor-class, which is 19 kilometers long. And by the time the Empire fully militarized, Han stated in ROTJ that the Empire had plenty of these things. But before that era, we had the Clone Wars, where the Republic was just slowly militarizing, hence why the Venators weren't that heavily-armed when compared to later Star Destroyers.

 

[Ghostse]

The Dark Troopers were originally blitzkrieg units. You have an entire city with a fortified, shielded rebel base, blasted into rubble in a matter of minutes. If the regular Imperial army decided to besiege Tak base, they'd have to fight through the city of Talay, engage in some brutal street-to-street fighting, and get through a shielded barricade before burning down Tak Base. That would've taken hours, maybe even days, before Tak Base fell, and the cost would've been dozens, hundreds, or maybe even thousands of Imperials dead, before the base fell into the Empire's hands.

Almost as importantly:
1) You hit the base fast before the rebels can destroy any intel.
2) The rest of the city and its economic facilities are mostly intact. When the Imperial army moves in to retake control - easy now that there isn't anyone to coordinate organized resistance - they take an intact city instead of resource-draining pile of rubble.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Crystal Skull honestly isn't /that/ bad. It's no Temple of Doom but it does have its moments.

Crystal Skull is one of many movies that's perfectly serviceable but got a reputation as "Da Wurst Thing Evar" because people didn't know how to react to a film disappointing them slightly.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

Discovery has been granted in the the Gina Carano vs Disney lawsuit.

View attachment 7191364

https://x.com/gschaerr/status/1909328233335841048

View attachment 7191365

She’s making a shocking amount of progress in this. Good for her. I was fully expecting the whole thing to just be squashed instantly.

 

[Ghostse]

Crystal Skull is one of many movies that's perfectly serviceable but got a reputation as "Da Wurst Thing Evar" because people didn't know how to react to a film disappointing them slightly.

Serviceable is stretch. Ford was a decade past his sell-by for the movie they were trying to make and Shia had neither the chops nor the presence to step in as his replacement. The script was a huge mess, having us see the "top men" warehouse was absolutely retarded (the rest of the intro I thought was actually pretty good and on-character, including Jones convincing the commies to disarm themselves following the magnetic field; I even thought the fridge-nuke scene was fine).

Now, the absolute travesty of film some of the haters try to make it? No. But its also not good.

 

[The Nothingness]

Han shooting first:
Andor shooting his injured informant in the back:

 

[King Metalia]

Crystal Skull is one of many movies that's perfectly serviceable but got a reputation as "Da Wurst Thing Evar" because people didn't know how to react to a film disappointing them slightly.

I've never understood why people have no problem with Indiana Jones finding the actual Holy Grail, but draw the line at aliens? I'd argue finding life from another planet is more likely than finding the Holy Grail.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Almost as importantly:
1) You hit the base fast before the rebels can destroy any intel.
2) The rest of the city and its economic facilities are mostly intact. When the Imperial army moves in to retake control - easy now that there isn't anyone to coordinate organized resistance - they take an intact city instead of resource-draining pile of rubble.

Exactly. The Rebellion was typically a few steps ahead of the Empire, so getting their data/intel is very important to halt further rebel plans. That, and when you get to the city, its technological infrastructure is still intact; power generators can be turned on to activate the city's machinery, meaning that the Empire can use it for their own gain.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Force Speed usually just buffs your run speed, not your attacks, which is... just done for game mechanics. It should make you faster in every way, not just running

Dunno if it came up with blasters but I recall in a World Of Darkness there was a sporadic reminder that just because your character has superhuman speed doesn't mean his GUNS have such speed, congrats you blew up your hands (super fast!)

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Crystal Skull is one of many movies that's perfectly serviceable but got a reputation as "Da Wurst Thing Evar" because people didn't know how to react to a film disappointing them slightly.

Crystal Skull is the Star Wars Prequels of the Indiana Jones franchise. Now Dial of Destiny? That shit is garbage.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Crystal Skull is the Star Wars Prequels of the Indiana Jones franchise. Now Dial of Destiny? That shit is garbage.

Isn't that the flick South Park used for their own gay little "lucas/Spielberg raped our childhoods" jabs in?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Han shooting first:
Andor shooting his injured informant in the back:

Ah, yes, Rogue One making it so that the Rebels are just as bad as the Empire.

The innate problem that comes from making the Rebels as bad as the Empire is that, if you have two armies of assholes fighting each other, people will inevitably favor the side that has more drip. Which brand of assholes would you favor? The dudes who look like they're too poor to afford uniforms? Or the dudes who look like this:


The makers assume that just because the Rebellion fights for democracy, that people would automatically favor the Rebellion. But years after seeing democracy get keked by bad politicians and big money, and people are more than willing to side with a hardliner who at least looks the part of a conqueror. Especially when they're the kind of people who can get shit done, from squashing the Confederacy and the Jedi, to building a massive, planet-shattering battle station.

The one thing that the Rebellion had over the Empire was their morality; they won't just shoot you in the back or sacrifice you to advance their cause. But Andor and Rogue One made it so that the Rebels WOULD shoot you in the back or sacrifice you to advance their cause, making them no better than the Empire.

Especially when the Republic they sought to restore has been canonically proven to be no better for the common working man than the Empire, and the New Republic that the Rebels replace the Empire with is even worse. So Rebellion's cause becomes even more of a joke when they actively worship a government system that was one big fat joke that can't protect its people, and the government that they do make is an even bigger joke.

 

[Ghostse]

I've never understood why people have no problem with Indiana Jones finding the actual Holy Grail, but draw the line at aliens? I'd argue finding life from another planet is more likely than finding the Holy Grail.

My opinion isn't that Aliens were involved, but that they make an appearance in the film as more than just mummies or relics, and they did a very poor job linking the Aliens/Crystal Skull aka MacGuffin to "myth".

If they had done something like El Dorado where the city of gold turned out to be some sort of ancient alien craft with a cloaking device or w/e and Jones ends up sending it back to its home world that would have fit the series a lot better.
Temple of Doom featured a MacGuffin that also had weak ties to Myth but put in the effort to show us that myth. And arguably the myth was completely secondary to the issue at hand which was the surrounding population being enslaved.
Cate Blanchett with some really gay psychic powers (with no artifact) did not put in the effort the Kali Ma cult sequences did.

The Crystal Skull aliens became sort of like JarJar became the whipping boy for everything wrong in the Prequels: people knew things were off in the film, but those are harder to discover exactly what's wrong and why they suckmbut there is a very visible "something wrong" and so that becomes the scapegoat for everything that people sensed was wrong.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Isn't that the flick South Park used for their own gay little "lucas/Spielberg raped our childhoods" jabs in?

I don't know I don't really watch South Park.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Isn't that the flick South Park used for their own gay little "lucas/Spielberg raped our childhoods" jabs in?

iirc that was also where they bent over backwards to make a huge deal of "lol imagine if we redid South Park with special effects and shit " only to go and do exactly that a few years later