Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

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Is Tesla Gay?

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Road Work Ahead said:
My biggest concern with EVs is longevity. How long are these batteries going to last before they need to be replaced, and how much are those replacements going to cost?
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With Teslas the proven MTTF on the batteries has been about 7 years. That's why there's no such thing as a used Tesla, because used Teslas are literally worth less than zero. When a battery module goes bad on a Tesla, Tesla won't repair the module, they will only sell you an entirely new battery. For $14,000. No joke.

Also glad to see people still ragging on Tesla in this thread for it's panel gaps. That's one of the most legitimate valid criticisms of Teslas imo. You would think by now they would have gotten their shit together after 10 years, but of course 90% of Teslas are built in NUMMI, which for decades had a reputation of having the dumbest, laziest, most incompetent workforce in the entire auto industry.
 
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Kramer on the phone said:
i don't even think we have simple hydrogen based scooters yet.
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Toyota, Hyundai, and BMW have hydrogen fuel cell cars on the road and for sale right now. Others probably do as well, but I haven't checked. The problem is infrastructure: there are only 11 hydrogen fuel stations in the UK as of today. I expect the US doesn't have all that many more.
 
I am amazed that after all these announcements that sent the stock to the moon have been behind, delayed for years, or dead...the stock is still at the moon. In approximate order:
  1. Battery swap stations (dead)
  2. Solar tiles (dead)
  3. Electric car under $30K (dead?)
  4. "Full self-driving" (promised every year since 2017, recently admitted to be unsolved)
  5. Robotaxis (promised 2020, dead)
  6. Tesla semi (promised 2019)
  7. Roadster 2 (promised 2019)
  8. Cybertruck (promised 2021, then 2022, now 2023)
  9. Cyberquad (promised 2021, dead)
  10. Model S Plaid Plus (canceled)
Nobody misses so many targets by years without even a blip on the stock price. Plus there are a variety of promises related to finance, quality, and productivity ("Alien dreadnaught!") that went up in smoke. At this point, Tesla is worth so much that it could acquire any car company it wanted to. My operating theory is that so many high-ranking officials have gotten rich off Tesla (Gary Gensler, Jay Powell, and Nancy Pelosi among them), and Elon Musk has kept the receipts, that nothing will bring Tesla down to earth.
 
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To the above points, the company seems to be invincible at this point since the litany of failures and broken promises haven't tanked it. I would welcome the collapse and failure of Tesla provided some good domestic manufacturer takes their place, but I don't see that happening. Heck, GM are being faggots with their electric shitbox apparently - discontinuing batteries. It looks like the domestic makers might just give the market to the imports like they have for the past 40 years. Teslas are retarded soytrash with two redeeming features; they're bringing domestic cars back to world leading since nobody can compete right now with the head start Tesla has on infrastructure and production, and they can accelerate fast. The rest is garbage. Fuck your nerdmemes, your fart mode, ipad dashboards, your vaporware trucks and roadsters. But that's just me being a judgemental asshole because I love cars and hate faggotry. The rest is indisputable and not opinion based, if you're a tesla critic you know most of it but if you're a fanboy you just can't argue with this stuff. Let me sperg out real quick.

Tesla has notoriously poor QC and fit and finish. I don't need to back this up, it's obvious and you can find it anywhere with a quick internet search. Even the magazines with their long term test cars have had issues. From panel fitment to failed components to rattly interiors, tesla quality has a long way to go. Only fanboys deny it.

Interface. Not limited to telsa but they are the worst offender. Touch screens are an objectively shit interface for driving. Physical controls are faster and easier to use with minimal attention diverted. Giant screens are also going to be very expensive to replace if they fail or get damaged, and unlike a set of knobs or buttons where when one goes bad it breaks one thing one failure such as the touch encoder, screen driver or screen itself basically makes the whole car unusable. They did this because it's cheaper from a development and assembly standpoint than physical controls and try to pass it off as modern and cutting edge. It's just shit.

(Model 3, Y) The stupid nu-minimalist interior has one fucking screen and you have to look over to see it. They didn't even give the car a HUD for speed, this is some of the dumbest shit, there's a reason hardly anyone has ever done something like this and it's because it's a stupid choice and everyone knows it.

Parts availability. Stories abound, tesla owners getting in crashes and having to wait ages for parts, tesla owners having failures and being unable to source parts. Tesla sells more cars than their parts distribution and service infrastructure can support.

Broken promises. At this point, many people have paid for something they just did not get out of the car; a useful level of autonomous driving. I don't know how that isn't fraud. They have failed to deliver on level 3 or 4 autonomous driving they've been crowing about for the past few years, always pushing the date when they'll finally have it.

Glass roof. This is another one of the stupidest things you can do in car design and multiple manufacturers have done it over the years. Big pieces of glass are fragile, expensive, difficult to replace, and limited in availability. Ever try to find a good windshield for a classic car? If you haven't it fucking sucks. Furthermore, the channels are also prone to damage on replacement. When your insurance company gets the safelite guy out there because he's cheap and he scratches the paint on the sealing and retaining surfaces while removing the old glass and just shrugs and puts the new glass in, enjoy your rust. This is commonly how cars with rusted out windshield channels wound up this way because it's just not an area that is exposed to paint damage unless the glass is replaced.
 
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The Ugly One said:
Nobody misses so many targets by years without even a blip on the stock price.
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It happens when the FRB prints money like its going out of style and fiddlefucks with the bond market for years on end
 
The Ugly One said:
I am amazed that after all these announcements that sent the stock to the moon have been behind, delayed for years, or dead...the stock is still at the moon. In approximate order:
  1. Battery swap stations (dead)
  2. Solar tiles (dead)
  3. Electric car under $30K (dead?)
  4. "Full self-driving" (promised every year since 2017, recently admitted to be unsolved)
  5. Robotaxis (promised 2020, dead)
  6. Tesla semi (promised 2019)
  7. Roadster 2 (promised 2019)
  8. Cybertruck (promised 2021, then 2022, now 2023)
  9. Cyberquad (promised 2021, dead)
  10. Model S Plaid Plus (canceled)
Nobody misses so many targets by years without even a blip on the stock price. Plus there are a variety of promises related to finance, quality, and productivity ("Alien dreadnaught!") that went up in smoke. At this point, Tesla is worth so much that it could acquire any car company it wanted to. My operating theory is that so many high-ranking officials have gotten rich off Tesla (Gary Gensler, Jay Powell, and Nancy Pelosi among them), and Elon Musk has kept the receipts, that nothing will bring Tesla down to earth.
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The worst part is the battery swap stations. They would have solved the main issue with electric cars, the fact it takes to long to recharge versus an ICE refueling.
 
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Toolbox said:
The worst part is the battery swap stations. They would have solved the main issue with electric cars, the fact it takes to long to recharge versus an ICE refueling.
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The concept is stupidly uneconomical - you have to sit on millions and millions of dollars' worth of capital to be able to change out car batteries like that. It turns out Tesla only did it for a tax credit from California. CA had some sort of tax credit you got if you demonstrated you were researching them, so Tesla did the bare minimum to qualify for the credit, then shut down the program as soon as they got it.
 
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The Ugly One said:
The concept is stupidly uneconomical - you have to sit on millions and millions of dollars' worth of capital to be able to change out car batteries like that. It turns out Tesla only did it for a tax credit from California. CA had some sort of tax credit you got if you demonstrated you were researching them, so Tesla did the bare minimum to qualify for the credit, then shut down the program as soon as they got it.
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It's uneconomical now, but it still makes more sense than wasting time. Tesla just didn't want to shoulder the debt of developing such a system when making giant car chargers is cheaper and already established. What amount of batteries do you think need to be stored to make one system functional if it would cost millions? Is there some sort of table Tesla themselves put out based on the cost of their batteries at the time, how long it takes to charge each one, how many you would have to have based on the maximum speed people would be swapping if everyone had an EV? The complete cost now if we're just talking the batteries is 10k minimum 35k maximum, going with the maximum, that's 28 batteries for 1 mil.
 
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I'm a car geek and my sister had a Tesla for a week. Fuck these things as car people she's not as picky but they don't play like ICE and sure they do rip but recharge is an time issue esp for her who drives like a crazy person sits eats and comes home. Like for her, who's wealthy she drives down street emptys 30% charge buys a shirt and goes away but half trip needs a charge thats hours vs 2 min on gas pump and that's her normal drive use.

My gas car is faster. No one makes a stick shift elec car ( I know why I'll spare) but lame, When we are talking faster and better MPG ... autos beat stick but ugh. To me thats same saying sex is "better" with a condom because less risk.

I try to be open minded and well Tesla has insane #s but it's like a sub zero freezer it's boring AF. I'll take my triumph or civic for a good time and if I just needed to drag race or beat the Tesla in 1/4 mile I can for crazy cheap with a GM 5.3 and wuhan war whistle.
 
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Toolbox said:
It's uneconomical now, but it still makes more sense than wasting time. Tesla just didn't want to shoulder the debt of developing such a system when making giant car chargers is cheaper and already established. What amount of batteries do you think need to be stored to make one system functional if it would cost millions?
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A tank of gas is worth about $40. The equivalent battery is worth about $20,000. You also need battery packs for every type of car you're going to service, since they don't all take the same model. A typical gas station services 250-300 cars per day, so that's a few million worth of batteries to operate at the same level.
 
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I don't have much of an opinion on Tesla other than having all of your indicators and controls in the center of the dashboard is a huge NO for me. I was in the market for a new car a little over a year ago and passed on them. I did go with a hybrid, one of the kind that recharges the battery by breaking and coasting.
My experience with Tesla owners is what I think most people would expect. I have friends and family in the Washington DC metro area who live among government workers, political party activists, suspiciously wealthy charity/activist org admins, and similar types. People who own a Tesla down there proudly display it in their driveway usually regardless of the weather. Every time one of them had a garage door opened, you could see where they keep the SUV, presumably running entirely on gas, and invariably some luxury European brand.
 
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I don't necessarily hate Teslas per se, but I do hate their interior design (touch screens everywhere), their design philosophy of everything being constantly connected to the Internet and subsequently the car and its features not being really owned by the "owner", and mostly the Tesla fans. They're the Apple fanboys of the car world, and they will excuse any bullshit Tesla pulls with religious zeal. Like the steering yoke/joke of the newest Model S Plaid Hyperdumptywhatever. "You get used to it" Why would I need to get used to a $100k+ car? Why should I relearn how to use a car, those days are over. There's a reason steering yokes haven't been used in anything but concept cars, because while they look cool they're just not great for road cars. "I'm 7" 5 and the steering wheel obscures my dashboard in every other car" I call bullshit, set your steering wheel height properly you pretentious Silicon Valley dungbeetle. "Formula 1 cars have steering yokes, too" Yes, and Formula 1 cars don't require you to turn your steering wheel more than like 160°.
It's nice that Tesla made general battery technology cheaper and made good progress on making EV tech more suitable for the general public, but their cars look like shit (at least on the inside), are more often than not still built like shit, have a shitty business model, and their fanboys are the worst shit.
 
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Thiletonomics said:
I remember reading something about an original generation Tesla Model S reaching 200k miles, although it did need a motor replacement at one point, and I don't remember how many battery changes it got.

As a comparison, there was an article about someone driving a Mitsubishi Mirage for over 400k miles. Compared to that Tesla, the Mirage owner only needed to replace a starter motor, wheel bearings, and the standard tire, battery, and fluid changes as needed, so the car was still running on the same engine and transmission.

Going back to Tesla Hate, one other thing I don't like about them, which is not about Tesla cars themselves, but it seems like some of the competition doesn't seem to try, when they decide to build EVs. Toyota comes to mind as a big example, as the bZ4X (along with it's Subaru cousin rebadge, the Solterra), not only has a stupid name (although Solterra is a much cooler car name, which could attract people to buy it on name alone), but a lot of design choices seem questionable. All of the US-bound bZ4X's will have a panoramic sunroof as standard (and I hate sunroofs in general, and bZ4X's elsewhere can be equipped with rooftop solar panels, which are very negligible in terms of battery recharge, and just add on to cost), the car does not have any front storage, or even a glovebox, and the car doesn't have one-pedal driving, which is one of the big selling points with EVs.

Granted, it's because Toyota was more in on Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology, which hasn't catched on in the US, as Fuel Cell cars are only available in California and Hawai'i, and hydrogen fueling is still very expensive, and very energy consuming.
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And there's also the million mile Tundra
 
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