Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

Is Tesla Gay?


  • Total voters
    595
You could probably slam out a modern 1980's vehicle for $10K while still having ABS and airbags
If that were possible KIA would offer it. Their cheapest car is close to $20K.

Nah, those still connect the engine to the wheels through a gearbox. It’s an inefficient mess and requires you to scale the engine up such that it could do an uphill start fully loaded. What I’m describing is a small generator to recharge the battery. It’s significantly more efficient, and you save a tonne of weight making it even more efficient. The total power in the battery would sink during exertions such as climbing hills or accelerating, but would then slowly build back up during normal driving.
There are PHEVs that use an eCVT to do what you describe, most don't because the drive feel is kinda shit.

Also the RAM electric truck, which has impressively bad range in all electric, has a completely disconnected V6 serving as a generator:
IMG_3291.png
 
There are PHEVs that use an eCVT to do what you describe, most don't because the drive feel is kinda shit.

Also the RAM electric truck, which has impressively bad range in all electric, has a completely disconnected V6 serving as a generator:
IMG_3291.png
There's no reason it has to drive like garbage, just scale up the electric motors, like Tesla does. Electric cars are actually far more capable of being sporty and awesome than ICE, electric motors pack a tonne of punch into a very small volume, and you get four of them instead of just one connected through a transmission. Not only is a combustion engine slower to react to throttle in the first place, it will waste a lot of its output just making heat, noise, and spinning a transmission around. The thermodynamic efficiency of a petrol engine is around 25%, diesels can get up to twice that in the case of trains/boats, but in cars you generally shouldn't expect more than 30%. Electric motors can go as high as 95%. Case in point all the new record-setting supercars are electric drive, I can promise you environmentalism is very low on the priority list for those, they only chase performance.

The problem with electric cars is that they hardly ever try to be cool. This is the one thing Tesla gets right, they look good (Cybertruck excluded), and have the performance to back it up (as long as they don't break, but that's just because made in the USA is a byword for shoddy craftsmanship). Instead of picturing some shitty Kia, picture the Audi E-tron RS. If Mercedes put out an EV with Tesla performance combined with German quality, I'd probably get one.
 
There's no reason it has to drive like garbage, just scale up the electric motors
You may be really missing the value in driving a car where it feels like you are connected to what is happening.

One of my PHEVs has a 5 speed traditional transmission on one axel paired with a separate electric axel. When its not in EV mode I get the immediate torque from the e axel plus the correct feel of revs as I smash the gas. It's a really great driving car, puts a smile on my face every time I start off a light.

My other PHEV has an eCVT. I get torque but it kinda just gets loud as I hit the gas, and everything just kinda happens. It's more efficient in kw/100km and MPG despite a 500kg heavier curb weight. But it's not anywhere near as fun to drive.

Most people will consciously or subconsciously choose a better driving car, and that's why most PHEVs are more in line with car #1 above.
 
You would be right. I think the issue is this:
1) Car prices drop over time as it gets easier and easier to slam out the parts (economy of scale) so they add more bells and whistles as value add ons to keep the prices stable
2) Bells and whistles keep the bar of entry high
3) Most car makers are in bed with regulators to ensure 1 & 2
You could probably slam out a modern 1980's vehicle for $10K while still having ABS and airbags and then go bankrupt because your car doesn't have much planned obsolescence so just keeps going and the yuppies that replace their cars every 2 years would shun you not being cool.

Cars last longer and longer all the time. In the 1980s, odometers didn't even go to 100k miles. Cars in the 60s were rusted out by 40k. Today, a 7-year-old car with 75k miles is just getting going. Also, a frame from the 1980s would not pass modern crash safety regulations.
 
If that were possible KIA would offer it. Their cheapest car is close to $20K.
Yeh the picanto, driven it. Its a little underpowered and the engine has that small engine feel to it but it was pretty smooth. Still has all the modern dash and screen inside it. It may not be possible to build a car anymore without all the extra stuff thanks to regulations
Cars last longer and longer all the time. In the 1980s, odometers didn't even go to 100k miles. Cars in the 60s were rusted out by 40k. Today, a 7-year-old car with 75k miles is just getting going. Also, a frame from the 1980s would not pass modern crash safety regulations.
Hot dip galvanization certainly fixed the rusting frame issue and yeh you would probably can't get a car over the line without the very expensive frame. This was my point though, so many regulations means you don't get ultra cheap cars anymore. Is there a $15K car anywhere anymore?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wright
Yeh the picanto, driven it. Its a little underpowered and the engine has that small engine feel to it but it was pretty smooth. Still has all the modern dash and screen inside it. It may not be possible to build a car anymore without all the extra stuff thanks to regulations

Hot dip galvanization certainly fixed the rusting frame issue and yeh you would probably can't get a car over the line without the very expensive frame. This was my point though, so many regulations means you don't get ultra cheap cars anymore. Is there a $15K car anywhere anymore?
Mitsubishi Mirage is pretty close, $16,695 base.
 
This was my point though, so many regulations means you don't get ultra cheap cars anymore. Is there a $15K car anywhere anymore?
DOn't klnow if it's available in the US, but the Dacia Sandero starts at around 11k USD equivalent. It's as basic as you can get a car. Reviews tend to knock it back because it has a poor Euro NCAP rating, but its low score comes from the fact that it has essentially none of the "safety assist" features that plague modern cars.
 
Case in point all the new record-setting supercars are electric drive
They'd be faster without the hybrid system. The $200k gas Corvette ZR1 is going to trounce the $600k hybrid Ferrari SF90 and the $2.2 million electric Rimac Nevera on the Nürburgring because it has its 1000 HP all the time (unlike the Ferrari) and doesn't weigh as much as a full-size SUV (like the Rimac).

The advantages of the electric motor don't outweigh the downsides of the battery unless you have a really small battery like the new 911.
 
Mitsubishi Mirage is pretty close, $16,695 base.
In my way too expensive country the Kia Picanto GT is $14,500.
$15,500 will get you base models of a Suzuki Swift, MG3 or a Kia Stonic.

Even the Kia Seltos starts at $18k. Prices of the entry levels have really dropped as demand has dried up.

On the EV front brand new Nissan Leafs are being cleared out at $18k as it gets discontinued.
 
In my way too expensive country the Kia Picanto GT is $14,500.
$15,500 will get you base models of a Suzuki Swift, MG3 or a Kia Stonic.

Even the Kia Seltos starts at $18k. Prices of the entry levels have really dropped as demand has dried up.

On the EV front brand new Nissan Leafs are being cleared out at $18k as it gets discontinued.
oh fuck you can still get Suzuki Swifts? they stopped making them here because efficiency regulations made everyone buy big and heavy cars
 
Following a Mercedes-Benz EQE (or EQS) battery fire that damaged 140 cars and hospitalized 23 people for smoke inhalation, South Korea will be requiring auto makers to disclose the battery brands of EVs, when they catch on fire. (Archived)

The said Mercedes-Benz EV had a battery made by Chinese company Farasis Energy, which explains a lot.

Another bit of news from the previously mentioned Cybertruck fire, was that it also burned the VIN plates and the License Plates, making it harder to get info about this now burnt to ash EV truck.

Dodge also revealed the pricing for the new Charger Daytona EV. The R/T trim starts off at $61k, and the Scat Pack trim costs a whopping $75k. Given the type of people that are fans of the old ICE Chargers, the extremely high price isn't going to be attracting them for the most part, let alone them being able to get financing for one of these.

And a few days after the said Mercedes-Benz EV fire in a South Korean underground garage, another EV caught fire in another South Korean underground garage, this time it's a Kia EV6 that ignites:


Firefighters were able to control the fire just enough to prevent it from damaging many other cars, unlike what happened in that Benz EV fire, as shown in this video:


The fire suppression system at the garage where this Benz ignited also did not work.

Mitsubishi Mirage is pretty close, $16,695 base.

Sadly, the Mirage has been killed off this year, so there will be no 2025 version in the US. The Nissan Versa is the closest equivalent, with a $17k starting price, but the Versa is expected to get killed off next year too.
 
Last edited:
And a few days after the said Mercedes-Benz EV fire in a South Korean underground garage, another EV caught fire in another South Korean underground garage, this time it's a Kia EV6 that ignites:
I swear, EV fires must be the "thing that never happens happened again" of the EV world.
 
The fire suppression system at the garage where this Benz ignited also did not work.
Automatic fire suppression systems will never work on lithium batteries. They're self-oxidizing, meaning you'd have to disassemble the thing and separate the components to put it out. What you do is just pull it outside so it can burn itself out, or dump lots of sand on it. It'll still burn under the sand, just it won't be able to set fire to anything else.
 
After the disastrous launch of the VinFast VF8 in 2023, despite the 2024 model being much better, VinFast has pushed back their plans on their North Carolina factory, again. It was originally set to open in 2024, but was pushed back to 2025, and was now pushed back again to 2028. This is more bad news for VinFast, in addition to reports that they send the Vietnamese Police after people who criticized their cars. Also, the VF8 is under NHTSA investigation, after a VF8 crash killed a family of 4.
 
Last edited:
Also, the VF8 is under NHTSA investigation, after a VF8 crash killed a family of 4.
I hate all of these "safety" features that take control of the vehicle away from the driver. Not only are they literally killing people, but they're making drivers less attentive, by teaching them to rely on the car to save them instead of actively controlling it.
 
I hate all of these "safety" features that take control of the vehicle away from the driver. Not only are they literally killing people, but they're making drivers less attentive, by teaching them to rely on the car to save them instead of actively controlling it.
Lane assist is also really bad at keeping a racing line through curves, even if you compare it to a human limiting herself to a single lane (as one would in a curve with limited visibility or while meeting another vehicle). I get that it sounds like an insane complaint, but I have reason to be bothered. It’s less economical, because it forces you to brake and then accelerate whenever you encounter a curve, and even with the reduction in speed, the hard turns it makes are terribly uncomfortable for the people in the vehicle.

Self-driving should value economy and comfort highly, those are literally the reason we want it, but it just completely ignores both. If you’re driving in a straight line for hours, like on a USA road, I get that having it monomaniacally staying in the exact centre of the lane makes sense, but on any road with a curve, like we have in Europe, you need to be able to use the whole lane, and often you want to be able to use even the whole road. But if you try creeping to the middle so you can get a softer line through a bend, the car will jerk you back to the centre, buzz the steering wheel in annoyance at you, and then subject you to a very uncomfortable and needlessly hard turn.
 
Lane assist is also really bad at keeping a racing line through curves, even if you compare it to a human limiting herself to a single lane (as one would in a curve with limited visibility or while meeting another vehicle). I get that it sounds like an insane complaint, but I have reason to be bothered. It’s less economical, because it forces you to brake and then accelerate whenever you encounter a curve, and even with the reduction in speed, the hard turns it makes are terribly uncomfortable for the people in the vehicle.

Self-driving should value economy and comfort highly, those are literally the reason we want it, but it just completely ignores both. If you’re driving in a straight line for hours, like on a USA road, I get that having it monomaniacally staying in the exact centre of the lane makes sense, but on any road with a curve, like we have in Europe, you need to be able to use the whole lane, and often you want to be able to use even the whole road. But if you try creeping to the middle so you can get a softer line through a bend, the car will jerk you back to the centre, buzz the steering wheel in annoyance at you, and then subject you to a very uncomfortable and needlessly hard turn.
And it's also fucking dangerous. B-Roads may not be in the best of condition, and if on an open curve with good visibility I decide to take a lane through a corner that's avoiding a pothole, or indent, I don't want the car jerking me back. Lane assist outside of motorway driving is evil.
 
Back