The Final Fantasy Thread

Sincere Sinner said:
I can't say the same for Vaan/Penelo, but I've actually come to appreciate Tidus as a good character on a repeat playthrough.

Hear me out: he's childish, selfish, and sometimes even outright idiotic, but I believe that those traits were actually necessary for him and the party to challenge the dominant orthodoxy of the Yevon religion and truly defeat Sin. He's honestly like some kind of revolutionary, only instead of the grizzled bad-ass revolutionary type you typically get in a story, he's like "I'm going to lash out at all these authority figures like a big baby and do my own shit" only it ACTUALLY WORKS. And yeah laugh at the daddy issues angle all you want, but that's a big part of his motivation to defeat Sin too.

I think the writers are even pretty self aware about this: the most telling scene is I believe around Yunalesca where Lulu says something like "If you want everything you will end up with nothing" and Tidus responds with "BUT I WANT EVERYTHING" like a five year old. By insisting on a "perfect" outcome and refusing to settle or compromise he basically saves the world.
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That is why Tidus resonated with Japan. For his free spirit, against a stifling insistence for “maturity”
 
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Berrakh said:
That is why Tidus resonated with Japan. For his free spirit, against a stifling insistence for “maturity”
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10 has been praised a lot in Japan. It's taken the top spot on various polls over the years. (Surprised 12 is ranked so low. I’ll never forgive the Japanese!)
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Japan really loves that "normal character from normal world gets teleported to different world" thing. It's called "isekai."
 
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PS1gamenwatch said:
But what is Tidus? He's a dream of an imperfect memory? Is he and Shuyin the same? That was really the most confusing aspect of the game.
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I always thought it was obvious he was a dream based on Shuyin but apparently it was confirmed years ago that them looking exactly alike was just a coincidence, which frankly I think is bullshit.
 
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Sincere Sinner said:
I can't say the same for Vaan/Penelo, but I've actually come to appreciate Tidus as a good character on a repeat playthrough.

Hear me out: he's childish, selfish, and sometimes even outright idiotic, but I believe that those traits were actually necessary for him and the party to challenge the dominant orthodoxy of the Yevon religion and truly defeat Sin. He's honestly like some kind of revolutionary, only instead of the grizzled bad-ass revolutionary type you typically get in a story, he's like "I'm going to lash out at all these authority figures like a big baby and do my own shit" only it ACTUALLY WORKS. And yeah laugh at the daddy issues angle all you want, but that's a big part of his motivation to defeat Sin too.

I think the writers are even pretty self aware about this: the most telling scene is I believe around Yunalesca where Lulu says something like "If you want everything you will end up with nothing" and Tidus responds with "BUT I WANT EVERYTHING" like a five year old. By insisting on a "perfect" outcome and refusing to settle or compromise he basically saves the world.
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Tidus started out as a star blitzball player in the futuristic city of Zanarkand, but then loses it all. He starts off whiny but had character growth throughout the plot. Not only that, but he’s relevant. Vaan and Penelo feel so out of place. Fran is a more important character than both of them, and she’s not even that important.
 
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The Fair Lady said:
I always thought it was obvious he was a dream based on Shuyin but apparently it was confirmed years ago that them looking exactly alike was just a coincidence, which frankly I think is bullshit.
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That… can’t possibly be canon. Tidus is a dream. That’s why he disappears. And if he’s a dream it’s obviously not a coincidence he resembles Shuyin.

I’m wondering if something got lost in translation. Like how people will absentmindedly say Cloud thinks he’s Zack or something. Like they’re trying to say Tidus became his own person and ultimately only resembled Shuyin exteriorly.

Or maybe X-2 wasn’t a fan favorite so they want to retcon it away, and the only way they can is to make everything it established meaningless or mistaken.

This is why Square Enix can still “surprise” me with their stories: they’re very willing to waste our time and make absolutely no sense.
 
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Berrakh said:
This is why Square Enix can still “surprise” me with their stories: they’re very willing to waste our time and make absolutely no sense.
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Playing through FFX-2 the first time I thought Shuyin was just using Yuna's memories of Tidus to pose as an illusion that looked like him, and he was drawn to Yuna because she reminded him of Lenne.

...nope! Turns out it was really really dumb after all.
 
Berrakh said:
That… can’t possibly be canon. Tidus is a dream. That’s why he disappears. And if he’s a dream it’s obviously not a coincidence he resembles Shuyin.

I’m wondering if something got lost in translation. Like how people will absentmindedly say Cloud thinks he’s Zack or something. Like they’re trying to say Tidus became his own person and ultimately only resembled Shuyin exteriorly.

Or maybe X-2 wasn’t a fan favorite so they want to retcon it away, and the only way they can is to make everything it established meaningless or mistaken.

This is why Square Enix can still “surprise” me with their stories: they’re very willing to waste our time and make absolutely no sense.
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Keep in mind that these are the same people who tried to push the nonsensical dumpster fire that is the X-3 novel, so I wouldn't put too much stock into it.
 
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Local Degenerate said:
This is allegedly due to the games being so far apart in time, the map has significantly changed.

In reality, it's because Matsuno is a coomer hack who just uses the same name world despite it being
1) A world with only humans
2) Literally imaginary
3) A world were combat is treated as a sport
4) Star Wars
or 5) A small nation in FFXIV

depending on the game.
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I really like the idea that 12 and almost all the Ivalice games are in the same universe as 14.

Sure, the landmass doesn't make sense, sure the names are kinda flipped around a bit. but It's been more then a few generations and this is a land that has been utterly wrecked by environmental disasters because of the Ascians.

Everything from Vagrant story to FF12 is directly referenced and most damming of all in my mind, is the fact that there are 14 reflections of the source as opposed to 15.

Meaning that if we consider each of the worlds as based on (if not being) one of the numbered titles, either one of them does not exist or one of them merged with another.
 
Michael Wade said:
I really like the idea that 12 and almost all the Ivalice games are in the same universe as 14.

Sure, the landmass doesn't make sense, sure the names are kinda flipped around a bit. but It's been more then a few generations and this is a land that has been utterly wrecked by environmental disasters because of the Ascians.

Everything from Vagrant story to FF12 is directly referenced and most damming of all in my mind, is the fact that there are 14 reflections of the source as opposed to 15.

Meaning that if we consider each of the worlds as based on (if not being) one of the numbered titles, either one of them does not exist or one of them merged with another.
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I can basically tell you that Ivalice as explained in Tactics/12/Vagrant story/etc existing in FF14 makes no sense. We already have a history for FF14's main setting (Aka "The Source") and Ivalice as described just doesn't work in that setting. They're all references and Ramza, Mustadio, Orlandeau, and Agrais being Warriors of Light and blessed by Hydaelyn as explained in FF14's "Return to Ivalice" storyline doesn't work in their stories in Tactics.

Also King Delita is actually Ramza's dearest friend in FF14's version of events and he laments and despises Ramza being forgotten to history in a flashback, and it was stated that Ramza demanded to be forgotten to try and bury the truth about Auracite. This doesn't work in Tactics' story as Delita doesn't have the same dynamic that he does in FF14's take as Delita is more distant while Delita is far nicer. Also Fran is a different character in FF14's canon as she is a leader of a resistance movement, Balthier, Vaan, Penelo, and Basch don't really exist, and Gabranth is a Garlean pure blood with his own specific army completely divorced from his position as a judge in FF12's version. They're just far too different and all connections are just cute little references.

We've seen the 13th shard and we know some of its characters even if you do the side content and none of them align with Lightning's story or setting, and it was also an FF3 reference as Cloud of Darkness is there and the Crystal Tower is tied to it, so it has nothing to do with FF13. The first shard we go to in Shadowbringers also has nothing to do with FF1. Also late FFXIV Shadowbringers spoilers for those that care as theFF1 Warrior of Light is Elidibus who is effectively a primal, and the WoL title is heavily implied to be a story that was started by him to ensure people know a hero is out there so they can control the narrative of good and evil for their own designs. Not the WoL as explained by say Dissidia's story for him.

Also their is no evidence that merging shards works how you think it does. If a shard merges with The Source, the shard just fades away forever and goes into fuse with The Source as its aether flows back into The Source. It changes The Source on a "magic fantasy chemical" level, to be simple because FFXIV lore is weird, but the worlds don't literally merge like you're implying there is no information that says this.

tl;dr: This idea doesn't work, it is too contradictory within FF14's established canon of how its parallel worlds work and what is in them. They're just references, don't over think it.
 
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Michael Wade said:
I really like the idea that 12 and almost all the Ivalice games are in the same universe as 14.

Sure, the landmass doesn't make sense, sure the names are kinda flipped around a bit. but It's been more then a few generations and this is a land that has been utterly wrecked by environmental disasters because of the Ascians.

Everything from Vagrant story to FF12 is directly referenced and most damming of all in my mind, is the fact that there are 14 reflections of the source as opposed to 15.

Meaning that if we consider each of the worlds as based on (if not being) one of the numbered titles, either one of them does not exist or one of them merged with another.
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I think Squarenix was trying for a connected universe with the Ivalice Alliance thing but that ended up flopping. I simply read it as the typical Final Fantasy characteristics making an appearance in other games in some form or another like the cacutaur monster, chocobos, gil as the monetary system, the concept of esper summons etc.
 
Car Won't Crank said:
I think Squarenix was trying for a connected universe with the Ivalice Alliance thing but that ended up flopping. I simply read it as the typical Final Fantasy characteristics making an appearance in other games in some form or another like the cacutaur monster, chocobos, gil as the monetary system, the concept of esper summons etc.
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The closest thing they've had 'succeeding' is the FF7 compilation. They tried the same shit woth FF13 and that was a disaster.
 
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Dr. Geronimo said:
The closest thing they've had 'succeeding' is the FF7 compilation. They tried the same shit woth FF13 and that was a disaster.
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The thing is, Fabula Nova Crystalis was rather loose for a shared universe. Every game was set in its own universe, and the only thing they shared between them was nomenclature and certain deities, like the goddess Etro.
 
The E3 showing has been a bit lacking so far. Is there something im missing that's happening on the weekend?
 
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