The Final Fantasy Thread

iRON-mAn said:
Defying fate isn't time travel. Unless they time traveled to present day outside Midgar. All they did is open themselves up to the ability to do things differently than it's meant to play out but they haven't moved back or forth along the timeline. And it kinda does matter who time travels. Sephiroth won't care about saving Aerith. If anything he'll want to kill her earlier to prevent her from casting Holy. Sure it's a change, but not one that renders everything meaningless.

So death is final, until it's convenient to the story, and then it's not. It's arguably not even a one time thing, since she communicates with him in AC too. Sephiroth uses it to strengthen himself too after he falls in, so being dead nor a Cetra is necessary for being able to manipulate the afterlife in this universe.
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....but fate alters who lives and who dies. So again, WHO time travels does not matter. So I will state again: Time travel/alternate dimensions being introduced lessens the impact of death. We have already seen this, the actions of Cloud and company saved Biggs and Zack, so I'm not entirely sure what the argument here is.

Also, Sephiroth is unique as well. But I don't take anything outside of the original game as canon, so the references mean nothing to me.
 
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madeinabyss31 said:
....but fate alters who lives and who dies.
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I mean, the characters don't actually know what they're changing (except Aerith, who seems to have some inkling). It's like being told to walk from A to B, but you have to take completely different steps than the person before you, even though you weren't shown how they got there. Right now, even though they've defied fate, they're still in pursuit of Sephiroth just as they were in the original story. The only things to stop them making the same choices, for better or worse, is a second Sephiroth, or Zack, or possibly player intervention.

madeinabyss31 said:
So I will state again: Time travel/alternate dimensions being introduced lessens the impact of death.
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And I'll state again that it doesn't. What affects the impact of a death is how you engage with a story and bond with its characters. It's possible to do both.

madeinabyss31 said:
We have already seen this, the actions of Cloud and company saved Biggs and Zack, so I'm not entirely sure what the argument here is.
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That time travel isn't inherently bad. We don't even know the effects of the those consequences yet. Zack being alive throws a bigger wretch into the actual narrative than any thematic ponderings of the finality of death.
 
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iRON-mAn said:
I mean, the characters don't actually know what they're changing (except Aerith, who seems to have some inkling). It's like being told to walk from A to B, but you have to take completely different steps than the person before you, even though you weren't shown how they got there. Right now, even though they've defied fate, they're still in pursuit of Sephiroth just as they were in the original story. The only things to stop them making the same choices, for better or worse, is a second Sephiroth, or Zack, or possibly player intervention.



And I'll state again that it doesn't. What affects the impact of a death is how you engage with a story and bond with its characters. It's possible to do both.



That time travel isn't inherently bad. We don't even know the effects of the those consequences yet. Zack being alive throws a bigger wretch into the actual narrative than any thematic ponderings of the finality of death.
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Red XIII also knows, who is part of the party, and I'm sure his pap will let them in on a little more in the sequel. I mean, you are already proving my point - the fact that time travel is introduced as a convenience is the exact problem, it's introducing a plot device into an established story that did not have this. You're adding to my point....but still arguing. The last time I will say this, because honestly, it can't be argued against: The moment you introduce time travel to the point it shows people being brought or saved, the impact of death is lessened because that plot device that they added can always bring back the dead....any time a writer wants.

And I didn't say time travel, the concept, is inherently bad. Steins;Gate is one of my favorite animes and it deals with time travel. But the show from the jump is built around that, it was not retconned in. And, as I stated, FF7 theme is death and coping with it. NOW, whether it happens or not, within this games canon - you know that there is a possibility of defying fate, merging timelines, jumping to other timelines, and time traveling to save someone. Two people have already been saved that died in previous games, proving my point.

The defense for this game is just bad. It's just bad writing and I've seen enough from Nomura to know he can't pull off what he's attempting to do.
 
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iRON-mAn said:
Zack being alive throws a bigger wretch into the actual narrative than any thematic ponderings of the finality of death.
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I would say there being additional versions of characters being alive (for whatever duration) is way more significant than just having a Zack be a alive. Seriously, folks. Two Clouds? Who's to say there won't be more of just him never mind the other characters? What exactly is going to happen when one set of one version of characters meet their counterparts? What does death even mean anymore when you just have another similar copy of another character hanging around? This is what you get when you shove fate/timeline/parallel universe crap into your story all of the sudden.

Ugh...I'm getting BioShock Infinite flashbacks all over again now.
 
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Friend of mine bought the game and played through it. She got to the end, called me, and has been on a weeklong fury tangent about how lied to the fan base was and how she didn’t pay for an AC sequel. She felt the ending was a slap in the face to long-time fans who only wanted an updated version of a story they loved. She hates it.

She paid $80 for the game and she’s about to give it away just to remove it from her life.

I just feel bad for fans like her, honestly.
 
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Basketball Jones said:
Friend of mine bought the game and played through it. She got to the end, called me, and has been on a weeklong fury tangent about how lied to the fan base was and how she didn’t pay for an AC sequel. She felt the ending was a slap in the face to long-time fans who only wanted an updated version of a story they loved. She hates it.

She paid $80 for the game and she’s about to give it away just to remove it from her life.

I just feel bad for fans like her, honestly.
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I was like that too but I liked enough before Shinra HQ, and thought it was all pretty accurate if embellished, that I came full circle and appreciated how this can't replace the original. Because if they shit the bed now, or continue to as the case may be, it won't matter.
 
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madeinabyss31 said:
The last time I will say this, because honestly, it can't be argued against
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Well, not with that attitude.

madeinabyss31 said:
The moment you introduce time travel to the point it shows people being brought or saved, the impact of death is lessened because that plot device that they added can always bring back the dead....any time a writer wants.
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madeinabyss31 said:
Two people have already been saved that died in previous games, proving my point.
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The mere act of simply resurrecting them doesn't prove your point. We have no idea what role they could play in part 2. If Biggs comes back and farts around the sector seven rubble until the destruction of Midgar, then I'll concede that bringing him back ruined his previous death. But just bringing them back doesn't do that when we don't even know what role they'll play in the next part of the story.

madeinabyss31 said:
And, as I stated, FF7 theme is death and coping with it. NOW, whether it happens or not, within this games canon - you know that there is a possibility of defying fate, merging timelines, jumping to other timelines, and time traveling to save someone.
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Yes but themes of death and coping with doesn't necessarily require people to stay dead. Ghost stories hinge on this very fact, as do zombies. Using time travel is just a science fiction trope to achieve that end rather than the supernatural.
 
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Basketball Jones said:
Friend of mine bought the game and played through it. She got to the end, called me, and has been on a weeklong fury tangent about how lied to the fan base was and how she didn’t pay for an AC sequel. She felt the ending was a slap in the face to long-time fans who only wanted an updated version of a story they loved. She hates it.

She paid $80 for the game and she’s about to give it away just to remove it from her life.

I just feel bad for fans like her, honestly.
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Tell her to suck it up and try and fight Pride and Joy.

She knows nothing of pain.
 
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the autist of dojima said:
Are you guys ready to apologize to nomura?
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A game going all in on faggotry and mishandling its characters doesn't mean Nomura is worthy of forgiveness

Square lied and the "remake" is actually a spin off and a sequel. Fuck that compilation shit, I don't care what the defense squad says.
 
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Here's an interesting thing about the game's data structure. There's metadata that keeps track of all the choices you've made. Once any of the multiple choices are logged in(i.e. what quests you've done, what dresses you've worn) that choice is logged and you can go back and make other choices and it won't undo the progress you made. The quests reward unique one time only rewards and if you make a different choice and go back and make your original choice it will still count the original quest as already being completed once. Basically if you want to set yourself up for the next game make all the choices possible.
 
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Marissa Moira said:
Here's an interesting thing about the game's data structure. There's metadata that keeps track of all the choices you've made. Once any of the multiple choices are logged in(i.e. what quests you've done, what dresses you've worn) that choice is logged and you can go back and make other choices and it won't undo the progress you made. The quests reward unique one time only rewards and if you make a different choice and go back and make your original choice it will still count the original quest as already being completed once. Basically if you want to set yourself up for the next game make all the choices possible.
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Oh so if you pick option A in a conversation and go back an pick Option B you get credit for both?
 
Berrakh said:
Oh so if you pick option A in a conversation and go back an pick Option B you get credit for both?
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Yes, in the menu there's a play log that keeps track of everything as well. For things like alternate side quests you still need to trigger them in the chapter they're in for them to appear though.
 
I have a feeling I'm gonna get negrated to hell for this, but why is Advent Children so disliked? I've heard some of the reasons (Cloud going from an antisocial douchebag to an angsty emo cunt, a majority of the plot being relegated to tie-in novels, the weird pacing as a result of a chunk of the plot missing, Sephiroth's reappearance at the end being 100% fanservice, the washed-out color palette) but I don't feel like they cut to the heart of it.
 
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I'm curious how many people here have bothered with hard mode and the post game bosses?

Counter stance seems to be real OP for many things and it forces you to use the AP block ability to be slotted in. Also Barret acting as a healer tends to work out real good with the only thing needing to be changed between battles is the barrier switching places with healing for the Magnify group depending on the boss. With haste his Limit Break tends to also proc the most out of all characters. Catastrophe just wrecks shit.

I'm making sure to collect all the manuscripts because they really do make the weapons hit that much harder.
 
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